US Politics: Mueller....Mueller....Mueller...

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

Also possible. And while Democrats have been over-performing so far and I think that is a good argument, its also not as easy to explain to people; especially major donors, who I generally don't think that highly of.

From my personal experience you don't really have to explain anything to donors, big or small. 

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That's really not good.  I'm disturbed by how people are advocating or not disturbed by violence.

Hey. VP Pence has often said he's a Christian first, ahead of being a Republican or being VP. Why hasn't mister "Christian first" said anything about the attack? That really annoys me. At this point in time if he says anything at all, I'll bet he'll say the guy apologized and everything is A-ok.

I would have been a lot more impressed if Gianforte had apologized before the results were in.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Gianforte is still facing charges, no? That's the key thing for me here. 

[Fragile Bird]

18 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Gianforte is still facing charges, no? That's the key thing for me here. 

He may be facing charges, but that doesn't mean he'll be convicted.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, Fragile Bird said:

He may be facing charges, but that doesn't mean he'll be convicted.

Yeah, that will be the proof in the pudding for me. If he walks away from this with no real consequences, that will be a real problem.

[Dr. Pepper]

Lol, all he has to do is work out a plea deal, probably some monetary fine, with the DA.  Even if the monetary fine is huge (and I don't know the limits in Montana), he obviously has the support to have those costs covered by fundraising. There will be no real consequences.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, denstorebog said:

A Georgia win would be a lot more beneficial to the opposition's morale than no wins at all. You have to show people at some point that putting over 20 millions and a shitload of effort into a race will pay dividends.

That said, given that Georgia (along with S.C. on the same day) is that last election of its kind for some time, an Ossoff win would mean less for future elections than for an opportunity to raise some money in the aftermath and perhaps to soften some Republicans up for opposing Trump's policies later this year.

It might be better for morale in the short term, but it could be detrimental in the long term. The last thing we need is a complacent base, and close losses might push them to be more active during the 2018 campaigns, which is what we need the most. 

Also, an Ossoff victory could affect Republicans' behavior. We don't want that either. We need Trump to keep acting like a buffoon and the Republican Congress to keep giving the impression that they're doing everything they can to screw the average person over. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Lol, all he has to do is work out a plea deal, probably some monetary fine, with the DA.  Even if the monetary fine is huge (and I don't know the limits in Montana), he obviously has the support to have those costs covered by fundraising. There will be no real consequences.  

I can't imagine that this would be legal. (Having the fine be covered by campaign funds) That said, it wouldn't surprise me if something like that occurred.

If that's what ends up occurring, I think that's a problem. This is assault and there were eye witnesses. I don't expect Gianforte to get time, but he should get some form of probation and a fine at the very least. And if I'm this reporter, I'm suing for personal damages.

[Dr. Pepper]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I can't imagine that this would be legal. (Having the fine be covered by campaign funds) That said, it wouldn't surprise me if something like that occurred.

If that's what ends up occurring, I think that's a problem. This is assault and there were eye witnesses. I don't expect Gianforte to get time, but he should get some form of probation and a fine at the very least. And if I'm this reporter, I'm suing for personal damages.

I have no idea if politicians are not allowed to have gofundme things.

He's only been charged with a misdemeanor.  Those fines don't tend to be very large (often top out at $1500, which would be no problem for someone with his coming salary) and I can't imagine him not doing a plea deal now that there are witnesses and he's apologized.  No way there is jail time.  Even if there is probation, I imagine it will be meaningless because he'll still get to travel all over the place due to his job.  

But yeah, I'd imagine there will be a civil suit.  Big whoop.  Democracy still suffers a severe blowback.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

But yeah, I'd imagine there will be a civil suit.  Big whoop.  Democracy still suffers a severe blowback.

Eh, money can't buy you love, but it pretty well covers just about everything else. Make this asshole pay in some form for his actions, that's all I'm asking. 

[Dr. Pepper]

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, money can't buy you love, but it pretty well covers just about everything else. Make this asshole pay in some form for his actions, that's all I'm asking. 

Sure, if he were some schmoe on the street, maybe that might be some sort of consequence?  But he's now an elected congressman.  He assaulted a member of the press for asking a question and a relatively benign one.  He lied about it despite all evidence available.  Then he was still elected and still maintained broad support.  Whether or not he pays a $1500 fine is meaningless now, it's no consequence to what actually happened which was well beyond misdemeanor assault.  I want to see him impeached at the least.  I want to see congress make a statement that the press cannot be attacked for simply doing their jobs.

That will never happen, though.  Because we have a president who spends his days leading attacks on the free press and he's held up by a party who is following suit.  Things will continue to get much much worse.  This shit is bad.  I no longer feel like it's any sort of exaggeration or hysteria to point out that American democracy is dying fast. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

59 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Sure, if he were some schmoe on the street, maybe that might be some sort of consequence?  But he's now an elected congressman.  He assaulted a member of the press for asking a question and a relatively benign one.  He lied about it despite all evidence available.  Then he was still elected and still maintained broad support.  Whether or not he pays a $1500 fine is meaningless now, it's no consequence to what actually happened which was well beyond misdemeanor assault.  I want to see him impeached at the least.  I want to see congress make a statement that the press cannot be attacked for simply doing their jobs.

That will never happen, though.  Because we have a president who spends his days leading attacks on the free press and he's held up by a party who is following suit.  Things will continue to get much much worse.  This shit is bad.  I no longer feel like it's any sort of exaggeration or hysteria to point out that American democracy is dying fast. 

He should be treated the same as any schmoe on the street, that's kind of the point. Politicians should not be protected from these sorts of consequences. He should have to square up the same as any other citizen who committed this sort or act. No more, no less.

[The Wedge]

The first thing that should happen to Representative-elect Gianforte is for a journalist to ask him about the CBO score.

Every question to him should be about it until he answers it.

Journalists should not be cowed by this bully.  Hit him where it hurts: In his ignorant empty brain pan.

[OldGimletEye]

51 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Germans don't want what America is selling, so sell something they do want. You can;t force the German people to buy American. After all, Trump is promoting buy American in the USA, so why wouldn't Germany promote buy German in Germany?

A couple of things I want to add here:

1. The United States is the world's monetary hegemon and main safe asset supplier. That's a big reason why we run trade deficits. Trump needs to face facts here. And upside to being the world's banker is that we can borrow rather cheaply. Now Trump could take that money and do something for average people. But, he's decided to give tax cuts for the rich.

2. To the extent Trump worries about trade deficits, his fiscal policy choices make no sense.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Sure, if he were some schmoe on the street, maybe that might be some sort of consequence?  But he's now an elected congressman.  He assaulted a member of the press for asking a question and a relatively benign one.  He lied about it despite all evidence available.  Then he was still elected and still maintained broad support.  Whether or not he pays a $1500 fine is meaningless now, it's no consequence to what actually happened which was well beyond misdemeanor assault.  I want to see him impeached at the least.  I want to see congress make a statement that the press cannot be attacked for simply doing their jobs.

Here's what he's facings punishment wise:
 

Quote

Montana Code § 45-5-201 states that the punishment for misdemeanor assault is a fine of up to $500 and a jail sentence of up to six months.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/what-punishment-greg-gianforte-face-conviction-assault-jail-time-fine/

And here's one Congressman's statement about the incident:

Lovely, right? 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Here's what he's facings punishment wise:
 

http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/what-punishment-greg-gianforte-face-conviction-assault-jail-time-fine/

And here's one Congressman's statement about the incident:

Lovely, right? 

Yeah, it's like idiot Trent Franks, trying to deflect blame from Gianforte.

 

 

[Sivin]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I'm certainly not saying that.  I'm saying that libertarianism is on a spectrum like most beliefs.

I don't think anyone can argue that libertarians aren't on the spectrum.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

I don't think anyone can argue that libertarians aren't on the spectrum.

nice.

[Sivin]

12 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

nice.

I thought you no longer identified with that crowd.

[Altherion]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Before I respond to a few posts, I've got to say that the creepy pro-GOP ads keep one upping themselves. The latest one is straight out of a dystopian future young adult movie. It's a string of lies about the AHCA, followed by a woman looking into the camera and saying, "Make sure you call your Republican Congressmen and thank them for giving you the health care you deserve."

That's pretty funny. For some reason, I get more Planned Parenthood ads than anything else. Looks like the ad algorithms need some tuning for sites with diverse points of view.

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

You can understand people thinking that's a good thing for a politician to attack a member of the press? WTF dude.....

Yes, of course. Freedom of the press is not a license to constantly insult someone and find fault with their actions no matter what they do. I have not heard of this Montana politician prior to the scuffle, but the press is doing the same thing to certain national politicians and they're pretty blatant about it. I suspect the same thing was going on in Montana. Here's a quote from a CNN article:

Quote

"We whole-heartedly support Greg. We love him," said Karen Screnar, a Republican voter who had driven all the way from Helena to support Gianforte. Screnar said she and her husband have known Gianforte for the better part of a decade. After Gianforte was charged with misdemeanor assault, Screnar said she was only "more ready to support Greg."

"We've watched how the press is one-sided. Excuse me, that's how I feel. (They're) making him their whipping boy so to speak through this campaign," Screaner said. "There comes a point where, stop it."

This is not to say that I agree with the action -- Gianforte definitely should not have done it -- but I understand why he did it and why many people support him.