Wonder Woman (spoiler thread) - skip to pg. 14 for actual movie discussion

[fionwe1987]

7 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 Neither me, nor my penis felt hampered in any way, and I watched this movie at the Alamo Drafthouse, the same theatre chain showing the women's only screening.

You traitor to the brotherhood. Its men like you who destroy our cause and set us back (to the future)!

[Bastard of Boston]

So basically, the topic for this movie is starting on page 13? Sounds about right.

I really liked it. I'm reluctant to say I loved it, but who knows, maybe I'll end up loving it. I thought they nailed the character, which is why the movie is an automatic win. While they're still struggling like hell to get Superman right, they managed to portray the nuances of Wonder Woman's character -- to me -- as well as they could've.

For all the talk studio people had about how "hard" Wonder Woman was to adapt, this made it look effortless. The mythology was solid. The Themyscira stuff was solid. In limited time, the other Amazons were interesting.

The prerequisite "fish out of water" scenes were well done. They made Diana naive, but not stupid. I really liked Steve Trevor. He wasn't used in a way which overshadowed Diana, but he still had a strong presence.

I have nitpicks, but they're nitpicks. I don't think it was ever explicitly covered how Steve and the Germans even managed to get to Themyscira. It's supposed to hide the Amazons from Aries, never mind a bunch of dudes who got lucky. Seems like it was hinted Diana had something to do with it...like she used some form of power to open the gateway.

That was actually my other nitpick. Her power set was pretty ambiguous, in so far as how she beat Aries in the end. I thought her bracelets had something to do with it, but it didn't seem like they went anywhere with it. In Azzarello's run on WW, the bracelets were actually something the Amazons used to keep Diana "contained." When she took them off, she was God-like.

Great recovery for DC, though.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

Actually this John Snow is just a pathetic troll who thinks he smart and good-looking, and that whereever there are women and he is not they are pining for him.  You know nothing Jon Snow! is his own choice of handle to characterize himself, so -- you know what that's about. 

 

Interesting you didn't answer my question, but instead went straight for a personal insult. Shows character. 
 

6 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Seriously, you really believe these things to be morally equivalent? Truly and really? Or is this just attempting to get liberal knickers in a twist because that's how you get off.

I'm genuinely curious whether it's that you're so threatened by the notion of a space that isn't open to you or it's simply that you like attempting to make other people upset. 

I don't those things are morally equvialent, but at the same time if you were to swap out the groups for other groups you would see an enormous reaction. You suggested a men only viewing of Fight Club would go unnoticed, but I highly doubt that I don't think you believe that either. There would be a hysterical over the top reaction, there would be outrage, comments on mens club, the patriarchy and 'I thought we were living in 2000, not the 1920s!'. And if you went and suggested that women should just shut up and stop crying about it, they can go down the road and watch it elsewhere, then that wouldn't go down very well either. You'd likely be dragged out into the street and beaten up.

Don't even think about the reaction if you said those things about a 'whites only' viewing of a movie. 

 

[Kalbear]

7 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I don't those things are morally equvialent, but at the same time if you were to swap out the groups for other groups you would see an enormous reaction. You suggested a men only viewing of Fight Club would go unnoticed,

No, I said it would be awesome. I'm sure people would notice it. People notice all sorts of things, like what mustard Obama put on his hamburger. That people have outrage does not mean that it is particularly good or meaningful. 

7 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

but I highly doubt that I don't think you believe that either. There would be a hysterical over the top reaction, there would be outrage, comments on mens club, the patriarchy and 'I thought we were living in 2000, not the 1920s!'.

Yes, especially on the sites that spoon-feed you reaction shots of said outrage.

7 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

And if you went and suggested that women should just shut up and stop crying about it, they can go down the road and watch it elsewhere, then that wouldn't go down very well either. You'd likely be dragged out into the street and beaten up.

I suspect there may be a smidgen of hyperbole here. 

7 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Don't even think about the reaction if you said those things about a 'whites only' viewing of a movie. 

But we have that, already. 

[Cas Stark]

I must have missed where we have white only viewings of movies in the 21st century US.  I also agree that male only viewings of any movie would be greeted with massive and sustained outrage from feminists and progressives.

That said, I'm surprised WW is getting such good reviews, it just doesn't look that good to me, and after the huge praise given to Rogue One, LOL, I feel I can't trust the reviewers anymore on most of these big action flicks, the bar seems to have been reset really really low for a good review.  

[Zorral]

7 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Interesting you didn't answer my question, but instead went straight for a personal insult. Shows character. 
 

I don't those things are morally equvialent, but at the same time if you were to swap out the groups for other groups you would see an enormous reaction. You suggested a men only viewing of Fight Club would go unnoticed, but I highly doubt that I don't think you believe that either. There would be a hysterical over the top reaction, there would be outrage, comments on mens club, the patriarchy and 'I thought we were living in 2000, not the 1920s!'. And if you went and suggested that women should just shut up and stop crying about it, they can go down the road and watch it elsewhere, then that wouldn't go down very well either. You'd likely be dragged out into the street and beaten up.

Don't even think about the reaction if you said those things about a 'whites only' viewing of a movie. 

 

Because -- it is about your character, which you exhibit in every one of your racist, sexist remarks! demonstrating a refusal to learn anything. 

 

PS -- we went to one of the very first screenings here of Ghostbusters last summer.  The men in particular laughed constantly starting from the very beginning.  We all laughed and laughed and thought it was jolly good entertainment for a hot summer day.  So much for the whine that it was a terrible and unfunny movie. Ha! 

 

[Cas Stark]

There are a lot of unknowable variables that go into how reviews affect audiences.  

Ghostbusters got generally positive reviews, but lost money.  Suicide Squad which got almost universally panned as terrible, did huge box office. Wonder Woman is getting? I think? generally similar to more positive reviews than Ghostbusters, and we will see how that translates to the box office.

[Howdyphillip]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4297&p=.htm

 

It raked in $11 last night domestically, and the word of mouth is through the roof. I'd be surprised if this movie didn't hit well over $100 million this weekend. This is the movie people have been waiting for this year. 

[dbunting]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I must have missed where we have white only viewings of movies in the 21st century US.  I also agree that male only viewings of any movie would be greeted with massive and sustained outrage from feminists and progressives.

That said, I'm surprised WW is getting such good reviews, it just doesn't look that good to me, and after the huge praise given to Rogue One, LOL, I feel I can't trust the reviewers anymore on most of these big action flicks, the bar seems to have been reset really really low for a good review.  

This is what scares me. I have seen the trailers and they seemed ok, nothing great. Normally if I don't like a trailer i won't like the movie. Going Saturday so i guess i will find out for myself.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I've loved the WW trailers.

[Martini Sigil]

I really dug it... I thought it was the best DC flick since The Dark Knight.... But I had zero knowledge of the backstory going in... Danny Huston and David Thewlis are great in everything they're in... Chris Pine worked as Steve Trevor... The scenery on Paradise island was amazing.... But --IMO-- one  of the best things they did was to not overplay the "fish out of water" moments... it would have come across hackneyed and contrived.... but instead they peppered it in for just the right amount of levity

.... and Gal Gadot owns that role... I have no doubt she could kick my ass....

[Zorral]

Walking home from work this afternoon, went by the Union Square Regal Theater.  Hordes were pouring in to see Wonder Women -- hetero couples, groups of women, groups of guys, mixed groups (for me a group is five or more).  They looked happy.  It is a beautiful day here.

Good luck to ya, WW!

[Corvinus85]

I saw the movie last night and I really liked it. Easily the best of the new batch of DC movies, and I think it can stand with most Marvel movies to date.

SPOILERS:

I will mention first the stuff I felt was not so strong:

• Some of the plot pacing, and transitions between acts were not handled well throughout the whole movie. Like using the same sailboat to get from the island, which is probably somewhere in the eastern Mediterranean or the Aegean to London (only explanation is they got towed part of the way); similarly, when they go to the front, it all feels too small scale for a time; or the part where they arrive in London, and Trevor feels that first things first, they need to give Diana a new outfit, rather than get the super important journal to his superior, just so that they could insert a segment of hilarity.
• The use and introduction of the supportive characters were okay, but not great; like Trevor's secretary that just appears out of the blue, and has some funny lines.
• The visuals were great for the most part, but some of the slow motion stuff felt incredibly cheezy.
• While I liked how the movie's main message was unfolded, I question Diana's decision to let Dr. Poison go; it's possible that she let her go just because Ares was there, and she did not want to give him the satisfaction. But if she really understood that good and evil are a part of mankind, and not something that an evil diety can just conjure up, then she should have understood that Dr. Poison, who chose evil on her own, (he is clearly a psychopath, I would say), does need to be punished.

Now for the good and great stuff:

• Gal Gadot is superb, and she owns the role; like Robert Downey Jr. who more than likely will forever be remembered as the Iron Man, I don't know if Gadot will be remembered as another character. But that is not a bad thing, SHE IS WONDER WOMAN. Her passion and fire throughout the whole movie truly were inspiring, and it's what the previous DC movies sorely lack.
• The acting was solid all around, and Chris Pine was also pretty good
• The visuals, as I mentioned above, were great; in particular, I loved the scenes when Diana clears out the town of German soldiers.
• The villain was good, but possibly not great (the minor villains were so-so) - I liked that Ares was just an element, and not the incredibly powerful bad guy who is at the center of all evil; by placing the story right near the end of the war, rather than the start, it is highly unlikely that Ares had anything to do with starting the war, he just gave nudges here and there; he pretty much even says so in the climactic confrontation - speaking of that, I liked how powerful Ares was, and he kept beating Diana, until the dramatic moment when she finally lets the power hidden in her loose; that was a good hero-villain confrontation.
• Good music - WW's theme that was introduced in BvS was used effectively in the final actions scenes of the movie, and it did not overshadow what is a solid score.
• I enjoyed seeing some older actresses, like Connie Nielsen and Robin Wright get action roles, as small as they were.

[akh]

Huh, I might actually give this a shot after all the positive reviews, although I was almost certain I wouldn't bother w/ anything DC after BvS.

Why are people so angry in this thread, btw? Did I miss something?

[Jeor]

Just saw it tonight - I thought it was great. By far the best of the DC movies.

Gal Gadot's performance is excellent - it's good to see someone who is both kick-ass and yet personally vulnerable (mostly from being naive or a fish out of water). It'll be great to see her in future films. There's something about her look as well (well, aside from the fact she's obviously very attractive) - there's something in her expressions and movement that convince you this is a combative, feisty powerhouse of a person.

A few plot holes, eg at the end - surely they could have just disconnected the bomb from the plane loaded up with all those poisons. But I go into every superhero movie assuming there will have to be some mandatory plot holes somewhere, so that didn't worry me too much.

[fionwe1987]

Saw it last night as well. I definitely think it was the best DC movie, but the ending was just stupid. Seriously... love is the answer? They seriously couldn't come up with anything better? The story they set up had so many better directions to go. Why does it have to be love? 

Also, I'm mystified, given Wonder Woman's heritage, and the time period they chose, that we didn't get to meet any suffragettes. I['d have thought that would be better time spent in London than 5 minutes of Diana choosing clothes. 

Still, the Themiscyra parts were actually fun, and well done. Gal Gadot owned the role, and she and Chris Pine had some actual chemistry.

[boojam]

I liked the Themiscyra story, wanted more. Understand there is more Amazon back story in Justice League , but doubt it is much.

Would like to see just an Amazon movie now, especially one that told how Amazon society really works .

[Egalitarianism Always]

Quote

 

....It helped that Lynda Carter successfully played the character in a TV series from 1975 to 1979. Or that Wonder Woman, after years in the doldrums, became embraced as a feminist hero.

Jenkins, 45, bristles at this last idea, however. “[Wonder Woman] doesn’t have a chip on her shoulder. That was something I felt … that I really brought in. We had a lot of conversations about feminism and her point of view. She’s not a feminist. It never occurred to her that she would treat somebody differently to somebody else, which is the stronger statement.”

 

http://www.scmp.com/culture/film-tv/article/2094961/wonder-woman-not-feminist-hero-says-groundbreaking-movies-female

So from the directors mouth, someone else quoted something similar earlier.

That some people are idiotic enough to think discrimination in the form of misandry, which is equal to racism, homophbia, transphobia and misogyny et al is acceptable isn't a person worth knowing, you're the reflection of the misogynist at what ever level of hate you have for men.

As I showed genetically we are all X chromosome individuals.  "There is no such thing as a "male brain" or a "female brain," new research finds." 

Quote

Instead, men and women's brains are an unpredictable mishmash of malelike and femalelike features, the study concludes. Even in brain regions previously thought to show differences based on sex, variability is more common than consistency.

Your brain is a mosaic of Male and Female.

.

[Howdyphillip]

2 hours ago, Traveller between Worlds said:

http://www.scmp.com/culture/film-tv/article/2094961/wonder-woman-not-feminist-hero-says-groundbreaking-movies-female

So from the directors mouth, someone else quoted something similar earlier.

That some people are idiotic enough to think discrimination in the form of misandry, which is equal to racism, homophbia, transphobia and misogyny et al is acceptable isn't a person worth knowing, you're the reflection of the misogynist at what ever level of hate you have for men.

As I showed genetically we are all X chromosome individuals.  "There is no such thing as a "male brain" or a "female brain," new research finds." 

Your brain is a mosaic of Male and Female.

.

You just linked an article from the South China morning post. It is a very poor translation that has been translated back into English.

Here is Patty Jenkins being quoted directly. 
 

Quote

“I think that that’s sexist. I think it’s sexist to say you can’t have both. I have to ask myself what I would apply to any other superhero. This is fantasy and it’s not for anyone other than the person having the fantasy. I, as a little girl, took a huge amount of delight in the idea that for my power and my ability to stop that bully on that playground, I could also look like Lynda Carter while I was doing it.”

 

 

Here is Gal Godot elaborating on this.

 

“I think as a feminist, you should be able to wear whatever you like! In any case, there is such a misunderstanding of the concept. Feminism is about equality and choice and freedom. And the writers, Patty and myself all figured that the best way to show that is to show Diana as having no awareness of social roles. She has no gender boundaries. To her, everyone is equal.”

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/05/29/patty-jenkins-criticism-wonder-woman-sexy-skimpy-costume-sexist/

 

[Kalbear]

2 hours ago, Traveller between Worlds said:

As I showed genetically we are all X chromosome individuals.  "There is no such thing as a "male brain" or a "female brain," new research finds." 

Your brain is a mosaic of Male and Female.

Your experiences are not. No matter what society you live in male and female genders (among others) are distinct, and have different roles to play in that culture. Now, those roles aren't universal at all - but having differences absolutely is.