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Wonder Woman (spoiler thread) - skip to pg. 14 for actual movie discussion


Corvinus85

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Well, given how big a success the movie was, I hope we'll see more female superhero movies. I guess it would be too much to ask for a Legend of Korra movie though. Black, bisexual muscular female lead movie is probably a ways away. But the possibility has gotten stronger, one hopes.

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13 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Ares didn't start WWI either. Humanity does that all an its own. Ares even says so to Diana, he doesn't start wars. I thought the message of the movie, other than maybe the vague "it's love", was quite clear. Humanity is capable of both good and evil without direct intervention from a diety.

Yeah, I thought the movie handled that really well in fact. Weaving in Ares as a hidden hand that had to be stopped, but at the same time Ares is not the "devil" making man do bad things, who would otherwise only be good.

It also kind of explains Diana's absence since WW1. She's realised she can;t be there to stop "mundane" human evil. She's there to stop external evil. Which is why she turns up in BvS. Though quite why she didn't show up in MoS of course is a bit of a plot hole, since arguably MoS was a much bigger external evil than BvS. But maybe she took out the Kryptonian terraforming device over Paris off screen.

Very happy with the movie, pretty much met or exceeded all expectations. It's a great holding action for DCEU, but Justice League must deliver if the DCEU over all is going to have legs.

One question: how does she reforge her sword. It needs a blacksmith with magical / mystical talents, which pretty much means she needs to order it from Amazon.ta (is that the country domain for Themyscira? I know .th and .tm are already taken). 

One nitpick. A moustache on a Greek God? As a WWI disguise, sure. But with the flashback to when he was cast down by Zeus...it's either full beard or clean shaven. Actually the whole mythological connection was a bit meh. For one thing, Ares should not be capable of killing any of the big 3: Zeus, Hades or Poseidon. For another there's no way Zeus should be dying in a fight with Ares except in a fight where Ares dies as well as Zeus. But maybe the hand of Hades is behind Ares (and behind Zeus' death. So perhaps Hades will turn up later on and be a much bigger test for Wonder Woman. Possibly needing the help of the JL to take down. 

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43 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Actually the whole mythological connection was a bit meh. For one thing, Ares should not be capable of killing any of the big 3: Zeus, Hades or Poseidon.

I thought this was addressed. The initial story was just that: a story, as Hippolyta tells Diana when she says she wants to go fight Ares. It anyway never made much sense for Zeus to be dead thousands of years ago and also be able to grant Diana's clay statue life/impregnate Hippolyta so recently.

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Just now, fionwe1987 said:

I thought this was addressed. The initial story was just that: a story, as Hippolyta tells Diana when she says she wants to go fight Ares. It anyway never made much sense for Zeus to be dead thousands of years ago and also be able to grant Diana's clay statue life/impregnate Hippolyta so recently.

I kept thinking about that, and yes a lot bullshit has to be in that story, otherwise a major plot hole.

47 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

One nitpick. A moustache on a Greek God? As a WWI disguise, sure. But with the flashback to when he was cast down by Zeus...it's either full beard or clean shaven. 

haha, that bothered me, too. It's like the actor actually grew a mustache and simply refused to shave it off.

Also, how harmful are bullets for her? Antiope takes a bullet to save her, but not only is she more than just a regular Amazon, she keeps getting thrown around by Ares without a scratch on her.

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33 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Also, how harmful are bullets for her? Antiope takes a bullet to save her, but not only is she more than just a regular Amazon, she keeps getting thrown around by Ares without a scratch on her.

Don't they also show that scratch on her arm early on healing on its own, and that healer comments on it?

I think she's likely bulletproof, but maybe more like Wolverine is rather than how Superman is.

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56 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

I thought this was addressed. The initial story was just that: a story, as Hippolyta tells Diana when she says she wants to go fight Ares. It anyway never made much sense for Zeus to be dead thousands of years ago and also be able to grant Diana's clay statue life/impregnate Hippolyta so recently.

Yes, it's "addressed" in that she's told it's a BS made up story, aside form that fact that yes Zeus did seriously weaken Ares. But it remains unaddressed as to where the hell is Zeus (and his bros.) this whole time that Ares is meddling.

We (my sons and I) thought that the passage of time in Themyscira from the first scene in the movie to when Capt Kirk turns up could be thousands of years, and that Diana is already thousands of years old, and Zeus could have impregnated Hippolyta before his big conflab with Ares. Or, Themyscira could exist in a time bubble where time passes more slowly than in the rest of the world, so 1 year in Themyscira is 100 years in the outside world. though the time ratio might no be that much, because even for Hippolyta she talks like the Zeus Ares showdown is long, almost forgotten history, at least a few hundred years ago.

I could see the possibility that Zeus saw what Ares said as truth, that his creation is inherently evil, and while he couldn't allow Ares to destroy the creation (hence his defeat of Ares) he was too depressed to stick around and so he just buggered off and left them to it. Thinking that Ares was either dead or no longer powerful enough to do anything. But at some point he decided to take out an insurance policy that could deal with Ares without him having to show up.

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In regards to the other gods, I don't know anything about the Aquaman lore, but I wonder if any connection will be made between him and Poseidon. Is his trident Poseidon's trident?

Maybe we'll know more about the fate of the other gods from JL and the Aquaman movie.

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I do wonder if they will go deeper into the connection with the Greek Gods or if they will leave all that for solo Wonder Woman movies, there will surely be another one, as her particular battle to fight. Though Aquaman is certainly connected to Poseidon given Atylanteans have traditionally worshipped Poseidon and one of Aquaman's tridents is Poseidon's trident.

Would be pretty good for Wonder Woman's sequel if they used the children of Cronus.

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I saw the film on Sunday with a group of friends and we all enjoyed the film a lot. There were at least two groups of women all in various WW clothes and costumes, which surprised me for a matinee show on a Sunday. So the fanbase is there. One nitpick I had though is many of these women and girls were wearing capes with a WW logo. WTF? Just because I like Green Lantern doesn't mean I put on a cape with the GL logo. Poor form, fangirls.

Anyway, I'll probably see the film again in the theater, and I'll definitely add it to my collection of outdated plastic discs called blu-rays.

On 6/5/2017 at 11:46 AM, red snow said:

the problem was that the actor has a history of playing shifty characters so I was suspicious especially

  Reveal hidden contents

regarding his initial reaction to Diana

 

I still think it was well done though.

I thought the same thing as soon as I saw him. I was like, oh, that's gonna be Ares.

I see Thewlis and I think--shifty dude! Actually, I had this discussion with a friend after the film. She tried to use Lupin as an example of why she trusted Thewlis' character and never suspected him as Ares. However, I countered that Lupin was dark and duplicitous in the Harry Potter books/films. So that should've been a tip right there Thewlis' character was the one hiding something.

;) 

20 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Yeah, I thought the movie handled that really well in fact. Weaving in Ares as a hidden hand that had to be stopped, but at the same time Ares is not the "devil" making man do bad things, who would otherwise only be good.

It also kind of explains Diana's absence since WW1. She's realised she can;t be there to stop "mundane" human evil. She's there to stop external evil. Which is why she turns up in BvS. Though quite why she didn't show up in MoS of course is a bit of a plot hole, since arguably MoS was a much bigger external evil than BvS. But maybe she took out the Kryptonian terraforming device over Paris off screen.

Very happy with the movie, pretty much met or exceeded all expectations. It's a great holding action for DCEU, but Justice League must deliver if the DCEU over all is going to have legs.

One question: how does she reforge her sword. It needs a blacksmith with magical / mystical talents, which pretty much means she needs to order it from Amazon.ta (is that the country domain for Themyscira? I know .th and .tm are already taken). 

One nitpick. A moustache on a Greek God? As a WWI disguise, sure. But with the flashback to when he was cast down by Zeus...it's either full beard or clean shaven. Actually the whole mythological connection was a bit meh. For one thing, Ares should not be capable of killing any of the big 3: Zeus, Hades or Poseidon. For another there's no way Zeus should be dying in a fight with Ares except in a fight where Ares dies as well as Zeus. But maybe the hand of Hades is behind Ares (and behind Zeus' death. So perhaps Hades will turn up later on and be a much bigger test for Wonder Woman. Possibly needing the help of the JL to take down. 

So much agreement here, not sure where to start.

1. Very good point about Diana's absence in MoS! That should be explained somehow. Even if it's only a line between her and Bruce in Justice League.

2. I thought the same thing when I saw Ares disintegrate her sword--where'd the new one come from in BvS? You had a great answer: Amazon. :lol:  

3. The muddled DCEU history of the Greek gods is also something I hope that's cleared up and addressed in future films--maybe even JL. Could the Greek gods have been extraterrestrials or inter-dimensional beings? Is Darkseid possibly Hades?

4. And Diana's origins, so is she the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta? I'm guessing no, otherwise why would Hippolyta make up the clay story? Hades definitely identifies her as a daughter of Zeus (which technically makes her either a goddess or demigoddess and not an Amazon), so my guess is that much is true. I've got a theory. Here goes: Zeus took the sword Ares used to kill the other gods and "forged" Diana from it and his own "life source," or whatever you'd have it called. Then Zeus gave Diana, the godkiller, to Hippolyta and the Amazons to be her caretakers and use her in case of Ares' return. Zeus used the remainder of his life force to create Themyscira and it's protective shield to hide it from man and god alike. That would explain her power and connection to Ares, not to mention make Hippolyta's story about Diana's origin partially true.

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24 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

I saw the film on Sunday with a group of friends and we all enjoyed the film a lot. There were at least two groups of women all in various WW clothes and costumes, which surprised me for a matinee show on a Sunday. So the fanbase is there. One nitpick I had though is many of these women and girls were wearing capes with a WW logo. WTF? Just because I like Green Lantern doesn't mean I put on a cape with the GL logo. Poor form, fangirls.

Anyway, I'll probably see the film again in the theater, and I'll definitely add it to my collection of outdated plastic discs called blu-rays.

I thought the same thing as soon as I saw him. I was like, oh, that's gonna be Ares.

  Reveal hidden contents

I see Thewlis and I think--shifty dude! Actually, I had this discussion with a friend after the film. She tried to use Lupin as an example of why she trusted Thewlis' character and never suspected him as Ares. However, I countered that Lupin was dark and duplicitous in the Harry Potter books/films. So that should've been a tip right there Thewlis' character was the one hiding something.

;) 

 

So much agreement here, not sure where to start.

1. Very good point about Diana's absence in MoS! That should be explained somehow. Even if it's only a line between her and Bruce in Justice League.

2. I thought the same thing when I saw Ares disintegrate her sword--where'd the new one come from in BvS? You had a great answer: Amazon. :lol:  

3. The muddled DCEU history of the Greek gods is also something I hope that's cleared up and addressed in future films--maybe even JL. Could the Greek gods have been extraterrestrials or inter-dimensional beings? Is Darkseid possibly Hades?

4. And Diana's origins, so is she the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta? I'm guessing no, otherwise why would Hippolyta make up the clay story? Hades definitely identifies her as a daughter of Zeus (which technically makes her either a goddess or demigoddess and not an Amazon), so my guess is that much is true. I've got a theory. Here goes: Zeus took the sword Ares used to kill the other gods and "forged" Diana from it and his own "life source," or whatever you'd have it called. Then Zeus gave Diana, the godkiller, to Hippolyta and the Amazons to be her caretakers and use her in case of Ares' return. Zeus used the remainder of his life force to create Themyscira and it's protective shield to hide it from man and god alike. That would explain her power and connection to Ares, not to mention make Hippolyta's story about Diana's origin partially true.

Zeus as Themyscira is a good explanation for why Zeus is completely absent.

AFAIK Darkseid isn't Hades in DC lore as Darkseid is a "New God" not an Olympian. But it could be a character amalgamation they make for the DCEU. It might get comic purists a bit miffed though.

But from reading up on WW lore I believe WW isn't Zeus' daughter either, so that's a substantial change from lore.

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46 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Zeus as Themyscira is a good explanation for why Zeus is completely absent.

AFAIK Darkseid isn't Hades in DC lore as Darkseid is a "New God" not an Olympian. But it could be a character amalgamation they make for the DCEU. It might get comic purists a bit miffed though.

But from reading up on WW lore I believe WW isn't Zeus' daughter either, so that's a substantial change from lore.

Yeah, you're right about Darkseid's comic origins, but I'm talking about how they'll possibly weave the character into the DCEU (DC Filmverse), and I think it'd tie things together nicely if the Olympians were aliens or inter-dimensional beings similar to Asgardians in the MCU. It'd also make Darkseid something more than a Thanos knockoff if he was an Olympian closed off to earth from the war Ares started then had that door somehow opened by Lex Luthor's meddling with the kryptonian ship and tech in BvS. But I think that's a longshot. 

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Not a comic book movie fan, but did like The Dark Knight , that's almost 10 years ago! Can't get into the Marvel stuff even tho it is well done. (Actually comic book movie fun fatigue has set in for me, they are running this stuff into the ground.)
So glad to say Wonder Woman is the best of its kind since Dark Knight. I like the framing here better than even any big action film I have seen in recent times. (Not sure if The Martian was a 'action' film , if it was that's my last favorite action film).
Yes as someone noticed James Cosmo had a character role so there is a GoT connection.
Got to say liked the Amazon society story best , they could do a whole movie on that.

 

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I thought after she found , during the training with Antiope , that she had powers-that-no-other-Amazon-had, she would be curious about it. No discussion at all. Seemed like the time for her mom to reveal at least something. 

After she says "Good by Brother" does she then realize the goofy Starks-bring-badies story ,(clay you know) is not so?

That she is a demigod made the usual way? So to speak.

(By the by DC universe, as it always is, is murky about Zeus being killed, that seems a sophomoric deviation from Greek Mythology. But then it's not consistent in the various DC stories anyway.

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So in the Justice League TV show, she's said to be Hippolyta's daughter with Hades. Hades tricks Hippolyta, who helps him, and the Gods punish her by banishing her to Earth to rule over the Amazons and with them keep the gates of Hades shut.

I was kind of surprised the movie had Aries killing all the Gods. That made little sense, since it takes away the most powerful threats/allies for Wonder Woman in her future films. Maybe it'll all be revealed as story, and keeping Hades at bay will also be shown to be part of the Amazon's job?

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49 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

So in the Justice League TV show, she's said to be Hippolyta's daughter with Hades. Hades tricks Hippolyta, who helps him, and the Gods punish her by banishing her to Earth to rule over the Amazons and with them keep the gates of Hades shut.

I was kind of surprised the movie had Aries killing all the Gods. That made little sense, since it takes away the most powerful threats/allies for Wonder Woman in her future films. Maybe it'll all be revealed as story, and keeping Hades at bay will also be shown to be part of the Amazon's job?

According to the DC Lore on the wiki, a couple thousand years ago the gods collectively decided they weren't interested in being rulers, so they hived off back to their extra-dimensional realm and pretty much left humanity alone. So I can see a slight retcon for the movies being that the story the Amazons tell themselves about the gods being killed by Ares is total fiction to puff up Ares, and that actually they are all home safe and mostly not terribly interested.

According to the DC wiki Hippolyta is Ares' daughter, making WW his granddaughter. Though being molded of clay and brought to life by the infusion of gifts from 6 gods, one of which is Hermes, who is a male demi-God, I guess technically that makes Hermes her father (and Zeus her grandfather), she has 5 "spiritual" goddess mothers. I guess if Gepetto is Pinocchio's father then Hippolyta is WW's mother, even though there's no genetic connection.

It's all very confusing.

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Seems , I remember, in 'recent' DC cannon the 'Clay-Origin' thing is a actually moot, kind of a kids story (which I think it really was back a old old DC comics days). 

Ares' mother in Greek Myth is Hera, but I have no idea who it is in DC cannon. 

Would be awkward to say half-brother.

 

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