Wonder Woman (spoiler thread) - skip to pg. 14 for actual movie discussion

[James Arryn]

At what point does discussing the actual movie constitute a derail?

[Kalbear]

48 minutes ago, Traveller between Worlds said:

I've already said Gal Gadot has feminist views caught in the mainstream media bubble, she extols a positive version of feminism, she will without a doubt become an egalitarian if she stays close to Patty.  Patty Jenkins is a director, it is highly likely Patty Jenkins has the greater intellectual development than the actor she is directing.

Patty Jenkins is dedicated to egalitarianism like many highly educated people are.

Citation needed. You asked for proof that Jenkins is 'egalitarian', but so far have provided none save your definition of what egalitarianism is - which, by the way, is the textbook definition of feminism. 

48 minutes ago, Traveller between Worlds said:

So quote where Patty is dedicated to feminism, she;s dedicated to eradicating sexism a completely different and greater position, who even knows what motivates people like you competition, misandry, no-one meets only scumbag XY individuals, blaming them for everything is disgusting and boring and highly inaccurate, aka misandry. 

Quote where she's dedicated to eradicating sexism.

43 minutes ago, Traveller between Worlds said:

Fraud, you care nothing about feminism and especially not about egalitarianism.

And yet you still haven't cited a source for your claim. 

Honestly, TbW, I really have zero idea what your idea actually is. Are you claiming that men and women are not distinct sexes at all? Are you claiming that anyone who actually recognizes distinction is somehow flawed? One can promote equality while recognizing difference. Both Gal and Patty both state that Wonder Woman is feminine and a hero, and she does things differently because of it. She is an action hero, but her type of action is not like the men, and there is a reason for that. Similarly, the Amazon life has evolved and changed, and it is simply different than a patriarchy, with different kinds of answers to similar questions. 

This is stated by them. Clearly, they do not hold the view that women are indistinct from men. 

[Kalbear]

Back to Wonder Woman - here's a good interview of Jenkins' goals, which were to make a version of Wonder Woman that cherishes actual goodness, just like the Donner Superman did.

Quote

 

Wonder Woman reminded me of 1978’s Superman, and this is before I knew you were saying that was an inspiration.

I think that’s the greatest thing about it. You know, there are tiny homages, but the fact the spirit of it showed up to somebody who didn’t know that’s what I was trying to do, it makes me beside myself. That is what I wanted for her the most – for Diana to be that epic.

1978 wasn’t the happiest time in American history and the same could be said today. In times like this there’s an appetite for a hero who represents pure good.

That’s amazing, I never thought about the parallel of the time periods. That’s so true. That it so true. And it’s interesting because I can’t believe this film is landing when it is, in that way. But I’m been craving and missing exactly that in entertainment for a long time myself. I was like, “Where’s the sincerity?” I felt like so much of the emotion that I was seeing was condescending on some level. I could feel so much, “Oh, this is what the kids will like.” Instead of, “No, I fucking mean it.” I’m going to talk about love totally sincerely. And try. And hopefully it’s not embarrassing. And that’s exactly why I was like, “We have to go for it.”

 

 

[HexMachina]

Can we maybe just drop he name-calling and discuss the movie?

please?

 

I went to see it today and loved it, easily one of my favourite Superhero movies out there. May even be my favourite solo superhero movie (GotG 1 certainly edges just above it for me). I don't think it was flawless, and in particular I could have done with more fleshing out of the Islamd stuff and backstory. But in terms of the things I liked:

• Casting: Pretty solid cast all around. I loved seeing Robin Wright kicking ass in this and was shocked and saddened when she was killed off so early  Of course, the biggest thing to remark on in casting is Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. I thought she was absolutely great in this. She looked the part, had great chemistry with her co-stars, brought a lot of energy and athleticism to the role and delivered an all around great performance. She was the star of the show and I hope DC realises this and makes good use of her in their other movies involving WW. Chris Pine also deserves a mention, because he was great in his role and had good chemistry with Gadot.
• Writing: I actually felt this film was pretty well written, although as I mentioned above I could have done with some fleshing out of certain parts. Dialogue was generally good (the odd parts aside - but then I've come to expect a certain amount of stupid dialogue in superhero movies anyway) and I thought the overall plot worked. I also liked that they didn't diminish WWI by suggesting Ares was the instigator, and the whole things with demonstrating humanity was flawed and aggressive  and capable of fucking things up without divine prodding.
• Visuals and music: I thought most of the film looked great, though there were one or two moments of iffy CGI. The Amazon stuff in particular was visually stunning. And, as so,eons mentioned before, the music was so good, especially the WW theme. Listening to it on repeat now, as one does.  

Anyway, I just had so much fun watching this movie and have plans to go see it again next week. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'm walking out as I type.

Wow.

It's about accepting imperfection.  It's about having mercy, compassion, and empathy for the people around us flawed, broken, and weak as we are.

Are we worth one good person's life?  I hope we are.

[dbunting]

On 6/10/2017 at 3:43 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

• Visuals and music: I thought most of the film looked great, though there were one or two moments of iffy CGI. The Amazon stuff in particular was visually stunning. And, as so,eons mentioned before, the music was so good, especially the WW theme. Listening to it on repeat now, as one does.  

Anyway, I just had so much fun watching this movie and have plans to go see it again next week. 

Some of the CGI was distracting and I am so sick of the "poster" pose. Where the hero is in slow motion pose just for the theater posters. The worst example was Avengers 2 where they are all running/flying through the woods exactly in a line...so bad.

[Knight of Ashes]

My only somewhat major gripe was Hyppolyta being against Diana being trained, which struck me as contrived conflict, and telling Diana virtually squat about the outside world (she should have realized that Diana going out there was inevitable). Maybe H didn't know much about it herself but  whatever, I just waited for that part to be over and hoped the rest of the film would live up to most of the reviews.

Which it did.

 

[Rhom]

Saw it yesterday with a friend and loved it.  We had originally thought to go with our wives, but neither of them wanted to see it.  After giving it good reviews, my wife now says she would be willing to go now.   

Saw today that in its second week of release it handily beat out The Mummy's opening weekend as competition.

I wonder if the folks over at DC will be smart enough to pick up on what has made it successful?  The interview above where its compared with Donner's Superman and the comments about WW clearing out Veld were spot on.  This movie had hope.  The one thing that the MCU has gotten right more than not is matching the tone of their movie to the hero they have on display.  DC failed in that with Superman.  To a lesser extent, they missed on it with Suicide Squad.  This movie hit the tone perfectly.

 

[williamjm]

I really wish I'd taken the "skip to pg 14 for actual movie discussion" bit of the thread title more seriously now

I saw the film yesterday. I thought it was a good film, certainly a lot better than the previous few DC films. I liked most of the Amazon scenes, particularly their battle against the Germans. I wasn't so keen on some of the mythology, which seemed to be taking tiny bits of Greek myths and losing most of the elements that make them interesting. As Knight of Ashes said above, keeping Diana in the dark felt a bit like a contrived conflict and even if the stories Hypollyta tell her clearly aren't meant to be the whole truth it feels like we spend a lot of time on something that only Diana finds believable. Ares makes for a reasonable villain, I liked that he was a manipulator behind the scenes rather than being the more obvious general, but I was a bit disappointed that they couldn't do anything to do with the ending other than have Diana and him do a big CGI fight. I liked the WW1 setting, it helps it feel quite distinct from other superhero films. I thought Gal Gadot and Chris Pine were great in the two main roles, and the supporting cast was good as well.

[kairparavel]

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/12/15782354/wonder-woman-box-office-second-weekend

Quote

 as BuzzFeed’s Adam Vary points out, Wonder Woman had the best second weekend of any modern superhero movie, in terms of first-to-second-week domestic box office decrease:

 

[Rhom]

6 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/12/15782354/wonder-woman-box-office-second-weekend

 

I think that likely owes a lot to just how bad BvS and MoS were.  A lot of people went to see them and then there was a HUGE drop off.  When the reviews came back good on WW, it's like the one kid who jumps in the pool first and says the water is warm.

[kairparavel]

9 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I think that likely owes a lot to just how bad BvS and MoS were.  A lot of people went to see them and then there was a HUGE drop off.  When the reviews came back good on WW, it's like the one kid who jumps in the pool first and says the water is warm.

There's that, sure. But did you see the graphic that had all the movies and drop-offs sandwiched in between WW and BvS?

[Kalbear]

Yep. Even deadpool had a big drop off. This isn't just dceu movies- this is basically everything. 

 

Though to be fair to @Rhom I think he was saying that folks were scared off of dc movies specifically and headed back once it was apparent that things didn't suck. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 hours ago, Rhom said:

I think that likely owes a lot to just how bad BvS and MoS were.  A lot of people went to see them and then there was a HUGE drop off.  When the reviews came back good on WW, it's like the one kid who jumps in the pool first and says the water is warm.

I actually enjoyed MoS.  BvS was just a mess though.  I saw it for the first time a couple of months ago.

[Rhom]

13 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Yep. Even deadpool had a big drop off. This isn't just dceu movies- this is basically everything. 

 

Though to be fair to @Rhom I think he was saying that folks were scared off of dc movies specifically and headed back once it was apparent that things didn't suck. 

Yes.  That's what I meant. I think a lot of people weren't giving D.C. the benefit of the doubt after putting out movies with great trailers (MoS and SS) that didn't deliver.  WW had a built in audience that may be like my wife, would only see it after hearing from a trusted source that it was worthwhile.

[the hound of sansa]

Saw the movie last night. I was kinda let down. I don't know, i heard many good things, and it didn't deliver for me.
Don't get me wrong, it is a good superhero movie, but not great (for me).
My biggest complain is the baddie. Thewlis is terrific, up to the moment when he becomes a cgi muscule man and they start throwing things at each other. 
Gadot and Pine were great, with good chemistry. And the fight scenes in the village were great, with a little bit bad cgi. I didn't mind the slow motion. I liked how it was used to show the extreme aerobatic moves the amazons did.

 

[polishgenius]

Just saw it since it finally came out here.



I'm with the above poster that the finale really didn't need big CGI Ares. That looked silly.

It was grand overall, though. I didn't find it as genre-definingly brilliant as some people apparently did, but comparing it to films it has direct similarities to, it's miles better than Cap 1 and overall better than Thor 1, although that film had a better villain (and they made Valhalla a bit more interesting and coherent than Themyscira). Pretty much all the characters were well drawn, the action (apart from that final bit) was great fun, the humour was good without taking over, the emotion was good... really well crafted movie all round.


I am a little nervous about where they go from here. Obviously, all the supporting cast here will be dead or really old if they make the second film modern, plus WW does not have a good rogues' gallery. If they get Patty Jenkins back she's certainly earned trust, but I'll still be biting my nails until I find out who the villain will be... (still rooting for Vandal Savage while knowing that won't happen).

[The Anti-Targ]

In the second weekend in New Zealand Wonder Woman's box office increased [probably] over the first weekend. For a wide release movie that's probably the best ever 2nd weekend here. Likely that first weekend turn out was on the low side because despite the reviews many people were reluctant to see it until they had word of mouth feedback. ~$1 million first weekend is a tad low for a superhero movie. BvS opened to $1.6 million. Age of Ultron open to just over $2 million. Block busters reliably double, at least, the opening weekend over the lifetime of a theatrical run. WW has obviously already more than doubled the opening weekend, which means it will end its run substantially more than 2x opening weekend. Not sure it will leg it out to more than BvS, but I hope it gets close.

[boojam]

Saw it again yesterday. Have not read all the replies here, so, am probably repeating.

 I find an odd thing, thought the production design is just over the top. But , I guess, 150 million does not buy as much 'vista' as it used too? Odd to say but as perfect as each sequence was, seemed the throne room at Themyscira , the streets of London, No Man's Land, a few other set ups seemed 'circumscribed' compared to some of the set pieces in big screen film nowadays. Not that it distracted , but kind of danced around the edges of my perception.

Another take-away... it has been a topic all a-thrill in the fan mind.... is how good the whole sequence in Themyscira is!  I kept thinking "is that all we get!" ... I know it's back in , well we know now, in Justice League , to come. I wonder now if there will be MORE of it back than was originally planned?!

Of course the thought is out there to just do an Amazon story film ... Id love to see that!

[boojam]

When Diana left Themyscira her mother Hippolyta gives her the 'tiara' she wears saying (bloop, can't make it out) 'belonged to our greatest warrior' . I suddenly realize it is part of Antiope's helm (tiara seems a weak term for it).

Did Hippolta say Antiope?