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Wonder Woman (spoiler thread) - skip to pg. 14 for actual movie discussion

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4 hours ago, mormont said:

IIRC she did, yes.

Poor Antiope. What a waste of a great character. It's not like Diana needed the motivation.

Anyway, saw this last night and while it isn't my fave, it does exactly what it needed to do, which is deliver a solid WW film on par with most of Marvel's better films. Gal Gadot is brilliant. Chris Pine is Chris Pine. (I've never seen the point of Chris Pine.) The rest of the cast do decent work: David Thewlis is a good bit of casting, as he has the range to do both sides of his character. Ewen Bremner is underrated so it's nice to see him get a good payday. Robin Wright is effective with the short time she has.

The action sequences were satisfying, the overall narrative is strong, and there were lots of great little moments. I had some niggles: for a Wonder Woman film, some of the female background characters felt a bit underused. I wanted to see more of the Amazons, and more of Etta Candy. They get too little to do. (I get the feeling there was more Etta stuff that ended on the cutting room floor, so maybe that'll make its way into an extended edition.) Ares' identity is too obvious - it can't be Ludendorff (too obvious), so it has to be Sir Patrick. Even a few more lines building up James Cosmo's character and his rivalry with Sir Patrick could have helped provide another possibility.

But these things are 'well-I-would've-done-it-differently' nitpicks, not serious flaws. It's a strong movie. Inspirational. Entertaining. Fun. Well worth the praise.

Question, but does WW fly in this film and has that always been apart of her powers? 

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2 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Question, but does WW fly in this film and has that always been apart of her powers? 

She does not.  She jumps real high.

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The shot right at the end is a bit ambiguous, I felt she was perhaps meant to be flying there.

IIRC she could not originally fly. It was added to her power set in the '80s.

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10 hours ago, mormont said:

IIRC she did, yes.

Poor Antiope. What a waste of a great character. It's not like Diana needed the motivation.

Anyway, saw this last night and while it isn't my fave, it does exactly what it needed to do, which is deliver a solid WW film on par with most of Marvel's better films. Gal Gadot is brilliant. Chris Pine is Chris Pine. (I've never seen the point of Chris Pine.) The rest of the cast do decent work: David Thewlis is a good bit of casting, as he has the range to do both sides of his character. Ewen Bremner is underrated so it's nice to see him get a good payday. Robin Wright is effective with the short time she has.

The action sequences were satisfying, the overall narrative is strong, and there were lots of great little moments. I had some niggles: for a Wonder Woman film, some of the female background characters felt a bit underused. I wanted to see more of the Amazons, and more of Etta Candy. They get too little to do. (I get the feeling there was more Etta stuff that ended on the cutting room floor, so maybe that'll make its way into an extended edition.) Ares' identity is too obvious - it can't be Ludendorff (too obvious), so it has to be Sir Patrick. Even a few more lines building up James Cosmo's character and his rivalry with Sir Patrick could have helped provide another possibility.

But these things are 'well-I-would've-done-it-differently' nitpicks, not serious flaws. It's a strong movie. Inspirational. Entertaining. Fun. Well worth the praise.

I thought Robin Wright stole the whole sequence in Themyscira as was just terrific. She will be back in Justice League probably a flash back , but might be interesting. 

Actually I could do with a whole film about the Amazon 'world' that looked intriguing.

 

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3 hours ago, Rhom said:

She does not.  She jumps real high.

She can hover.

I thought the 'flying' sequence at the end was awkward wish would have thought of something more clever.

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I think making her able to fly is a better solution to how she gets around the world without having to fly economy class and deal with customs and immigration than the invisible plane cheesiness.

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Finally got around to seeing it. It was decent. Thats about the most I can say about it. It had some good qualities

- The WW1 setting was definitely good, and the concept of a god creating mens urge to go to war was at least a welcome plot device that made things a bit more interesting.

- Gal Gadot was very watchable. Its hard to say whether he fumbled way of speaking was on purpose, but it had a naive childlike quality that worked with the role. Her accent was all over the shop though, as was her fighting ability and ability to run without looking weird. She is however possibly the hottest woman on the planet so am willing to forgive her everything.

- The history of the amazons in a painting storytelling bit was very beautiful and I really enjoyed that.

- the ending with Trevor was unexpected. 

But I just now have severe superhero fatigue ( I keep saying this but I keep going back!!). These movies have really just hit a point where its impossible to care about the universes they exist in or the battle between good and evil that occurs each time. By the time the last half hour had rolled around I had switched off. I don't need to see any more CGI-fest fights, they aren't interesting or cool any more. They are done. Justice League will definitely be skipped by me.

WW at least tried to make things a bit different and was far above the usual superhero blandness. But its problems lie in the genre itself, and it couldn't really escape them to make a great movie. Instead just a good one. 

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On 6/26/2017 at 3:28 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

 
But I just now have severe superhero fatigue ( I keep saying this but I keep going back!!). These movies have really just hit a point where its impossible to care about the universes they exist in or the battle between good and evil that occurs each time. By the time the last half hour had rolled around I had switched off. I don't need to see any more CGI-fest fights, they aren't interesting or cool any more. They are done. Justice League will definitely be skipped by me.

 

I know what you mean. Last year I went to all the comic book movies. I thought the Captain America movie and Deadpool were good movies, but walking out of them , my brain said to me "ol boy has fun fatigue for these films set in"? It sure has.* 

Went to WW because of word of mouth , except for the usual heavy artillery in the end sequence all the action was a welcome respite from all super hero movies I have seen in the last few years. The rejiggered Great mythology and the Amazons was refreshing origin story. It is interesting that Superman and Diana are not Americans, well not 'native' Americans. The whole story had an off-to-side spin not in other superhero films out these days.

One thing , I really dug Themyscira , if an only 'Amazon' story done with sophistication could be told I would love that. There really is not many prose Amazon novels , Steve Pressman's Last of the Amazons is the only good one I know.

Of note, since Gadot is an Israeli , it was decided that Themyscira would be done in Israeli accents , kind of a nice touch, tho I have heard it ought to be called a  'Homeric' accent. Tho root accent is Hebrew-flavored-English. 

 

*Speaking of fantasy movies, a new Planet of Apes film is about out, to me, these reboot films are very odd, they have a good cast and the visual narrative is sharply done , its just that story does does not engage me. This a category of good film I am just not interested in.

 

 

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well no I feel quite the opposite.

Civil War and Deadpool, and probably Logan more recently have managed to transcend the genre and I've come out feeling like I've watched a genuine good movie. They at least were trying to do something different whilst still being superhero movies.

WW isn't that. Its on almost every single level a rigid sticking to the formula. From its origin story, its chosen one who can kill the mcguffin plot, the losing of the mentor,  the fish out of water element, the plot structure ( which is rather messy) and the big boss fight... it's not doing anything very interesting at all, and that's what bored me.

Where it was above average was its WW1 elements and maybe the love story, but even that wasn't exactly explored fullly. 

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2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

well no I feel quite the opposite.

Civil War and Deadpool, and probably Logan more recently have managed to transcend the genre and I've come out feeling like I've watched a genuine good movie. They at least were trying to do something different whilst still being superhero movies.

WW isn't that. Its on almost every single level a rigid sticking to the formula. From its origin story, its chosen one who can kill the mcguffin plot, the losing of the mentor,  the fish out of water element, the plot structure ( which is rather messy) and the big boss fight... it's not doing anything very interesting at all, and that's what bored me.

Where it was above average was its WW1 elements and maybe the love story, but even that wasn't exactly explored fullly. 

Deadpool I can go along with, its odd to see a comic book movie satirize the genre, it's success with the comic book crowd, well a good subset seemed to be its nose thumbing , especially with R-rated framing, I was amused.  On the other hand much of the usual 'heavy artillery' was arrayed , same problem with Guardians of the Galaxy another film I thought was good, but, been there done that with the action stuff.

Civil War , man, like I said a good cast and well presented narrative, tho I found like Batman v Superman, the conflict tortured logic. My problem is that Civil War did not undercut my expectations , Wonder Woman did about 75 percent of the time. Tho I don't want that same story as a retread in the future.

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I don't think civil war is perfect, I think winter solider is better, but I'd say on every metric its superior to WW. 

Id put WW in the middle tier of 'good but not that great' superhero movies. I'd also put guardians of the galaxy 1 and 2 in that group. Guardians suffers totally from my sense of fatigue, it has lots of good elements but is still expecting me to buy into a universe and mythology without really creating a good enough reason to do so. It's also fitting into an obvious formula that I find tiring these days. 

There are just so many comic book properties these days it's just too much to expect people to care who wins in a battle of one vs another. Unless they do something very different or with real skill then it's hard to care. 

Im worried for a WW sequel, to make it work I'm guessing some sort of Agent Carter story set in the 40s or 50s. If it's just a modern day tale where she fights some new bad guy, I can't see the point. There isn't enough about her character to keep it interesting.  

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Comic book movies , if I could get another Dark Knight I would go see it, tho that one is an anomaly due to an other worldly performance.

Same with Star Wars and Star Trek, the last Star Wars off shoot was good but I could have done with out it. Only mildly interested in episode 8.

Star Trek, man that last was just seemed like a Big TV Movie, not more of those for me.

No more Bond movies had it with those.

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Yeah there is a problem with the modern blockbuster these days. So little risks are taken that you mostly end up with some bland meaningless soup of corporate interests. TV is the way forward 

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Posted (edited)

TV for sure. The first season of Fargo blew me away. I have not had time to watch the next two seasons. 

I find Westworld odd, I am tired of the West-Theme-Park setting , actually the Ground Hog Day story there, The action and story at 'Delos' instillation grabs me enough to be entertained, tho in the back of my head I am not happy with too much calculated convolution and the complexity seems forced. I am not optimistic about extending this story to ANDROIDS REVOLT but I will check next season.

I also like Stranger Things , tho I think that show is over praised. Another story that may suffer further elaboration.

Mr Robot really surprises me, I would never have guessed this very dense narrative would keep such a tight story , second season, and almost go off into a parallel universe. I am hooked on this one.

My two favorite shows right now are GoT , nothing to say there!

...and

For god's sake when are people going to find THE EXPANSE ?! Best new show I have followed since GoT.

Edited by boojam

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The best DC movie since THE DARK KNIGHT, and the best comic book movie since LOGAN.  Loved Wonder Woman.  What a comic book movie should be.  And while Gal Gadot was AWESOME, points to Chris Pine for not being an emasculated, ineffectual sidepiece. Director Patty Jenkins hit it out of the park.

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18 hours ago, boojam said:

Civil War , man, like I said a good cast and well presented narrative, tho I found like Batman v Superman, the conflict tortured logic. My problem is that Civil War did not undercut my expectations , Wonder Woman did about 75 percent of the time. Tho I don't want that same story as a retread in the future.

IMO you can't put the conflicts of these two movies in the same league. The question over individuals deciding to accept or reject an international accord that puts special controls on humans, some of whom are literal weapons of mass destruction is quite a pertinent issue in a world such as the MCU. Whereas Superman going after Batman because Batman is being a vigilante and putting bad guys away is hypocritical, and none of his bloody business since, y'know Superman is not humanity's savour from itself. And Batmam being all pissed at Superman because a bunch of his cousins tried to ruin the Earth and Superman stopped them, but some people died, is just lame.

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8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

IMO you can't put the conflicts of these two movies in the same league. The question over individuals deciding to accept or reject an international accord that puts special controls on humans, some of whom are literal weapons of mass destruction is quite a pertinent issue in a world such as the MCU. Whereas Superman going after Batman because Batman is being a vigilante and putting bad guys away is hypocritical, and none of his bloody business since, y'know Superman is not humanity's savour from itself. And Batmam being all pissed at Superman because a bunch of his cousins tried to ruin the Earth and Superman stopped them, but some people died, is just lame.

I put "an international accord that puts special controls" , in the context of the story as tortured logic , I can see the difference , I just don't buy it.

This pretty well sums up my problems with Civil War:

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, boojam said:

I put "an international accord that puts special controls" , in the context of the story as tortured logic , I can see the difference , I just don't buy it.

This pretty well sums up my problems with Civil War:

 

 

 

I think this discussion could be moved the Civil War thread, but that honest video is incredibly tame at getting to any issues with the plot. Nothing it mentions there really exposes any major logic flaws (although I'm sure there are some). BvS is a whole different matter, none of that makes sense in the slightest and is one of the most eyerolling movies I've seen in years.

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8 hours ago, boojam said:

I put "an international accord that puts special controls" , in the context of the story as tortured logic , I can see the difference , I just don't buy it.

This pretty well sums up my problems with Civil War:

 

 

 

I dunno about you, but if I was living in the MCU I'd want the UN to put some kind of oversight on the international activities of these living weapons. Seems like sound logic to me, not tortured logic.

Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.

Looking forward to Justice league I can possibly see some tortured logic on the horizon here. Some big bad (I assume alien, and likely a known supervillain from the DC comics) is going to be threatening the world. Somehow Wonder Woman, the Greek goddess, and her mates won't quite be able to do the job and Superman will deus ex machina his way into the final Act and brig us to a happy ending. Without Kryptonite getting in the way Superman is just too OP to be in the whole movie, the lesser heroes have to be given the chance to succeed, but then fail, so the world can cheer when Superman miraculously shows up, in yet another Jesus metaphor, rising from the dead and giving comfort to his disciples. Though I presume Diana and Bruce both know that Clarke's death was just a show.

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