Pain killer Jane Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Fantastic catch! The idea of 'casting an eye' also evokes the idea of 'casting a net' to entrap someone (in a 'garth trap') as well as your idea of the gambler AA 'casting the dice' -- the sacrifice of the 'lucky' red-headed woman you've been alluding to is of central importance in the drama. Exactly and it is the reverse of a woman being the seducer and at fault for "catching the eye" of a man. 12 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: It reminds me of the Ljothatal charms from the Havamal, highlighted by @Unchained, particularly this one: Quote I know a sixteenth: – if I say that spell – any girl soon grants my desires; – I win the heart – of the white-armed maiden, – turn her thoughts where I will. Wherever did @Unchained find this? It is perfect. 14 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Nice. There are those idioms 'looking daggers at someone' and 'if looks could kill...,' etc., which all tie in to the concept of 'giving someone the evil eye'...'Third eye' as 'evil eye'? (What's the relation between the 'killing eye' and the 'killing word'?!) It is definitely an evil eye. There is a superstition that if one hangs a mirror in the entrance of their home, it will prevent the evil eye from gaining access to the home. Could be the reason for the Heart tree staring at itself which is mirrored by Lady Stoneheart staring at Oathkeeper which is a more elaborate version of the Stark Kings' Statues having swords on their laps to prevent their shades walking and their evil eyes in check. As for the relationship between the killing word and the killing evil eye, you already answered it Quote Notice that a profusion of lies, eyes, seeing, shutters, darkness, and other related words are emphasized and linked -- there is a wordplay on LIES and EYES and YES and AYES and I -es (the selfish 'I', the ego of 'pluralis majestatis' -- the 'royal we' being the ego which multiplies itself, who asserts itself at the expense of others). 'Aye', when it was used democratically to send an assassin after Dany and her unborn baby, was a killing eye and killing word. Love the Roman stuff. See how the fascinum was a phallus, I wonder if the evil eye ended up with penis envy. 25 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Talking of 'cat's eyes,' do you think there's some symbolic significance to the 'tiger's eye' gemstone which is included in a list of other gemstones, many of them associated with the 'gemstone emperors' of the GEOTD? The tiger's eye is affiliated with the finger (hence meddling agency) of a a 'fat cat' greenseer-figure in Ilyrio; and with Tyrion's thought that he would need a cleaver to remove the rings, the idea of 'paying the iron price' as well as 'the butcher king' is linked to the greenseers and their 'all-seeing' cat's eyes. Quote A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion I "It might please m'lord to strangle you. That's how I served my last whore. Do you think your master would object? Surely not. He has a hundred more like you, but no one else like me." This time, when he grinned, he got the fear he wanted. Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I'd need a cleaver to claim them. "Come sit, my little friend." Illyrio waved him closer. A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion X Most of the guests paid them no more mind than they did the other slaves … but one Yunkishman declared drunkenly that Yezzan should make the two dwarfs fuck, and another demanded to know how Tyrion had lost his nose. I shoved it up your wife's cunt and she bit it off, he almost replied … but the storm had persuaded him that he did not want to die as yet, so instead he said, "It was cut off to punish me for insolence, lord." Then a lord in a blue tokar fringed with tiger's eyes recalled that Tyrion had boasted of his skill at cyvasse on the auction block. "Let us put him to the test," he said. A table and set of pieces was duly produced. A scant few moments later, the red-faced lord shoved the table over in fury, scattering the pieces across the carpets to the sound of Yunkish laughter. Tiger's eye was meant to ward off the eye evil but in the first Tyrion quote it is paired with tourmaline. Tourmaline is a pyroelectric magnet and it attracts hot ashes. I take the tourmaline to be a sin eater since ashes can be sins. Therefore those two being paired on the hand of a corrupted and bloated greenseer tells me that the purpose of the Tiger's eye has been corrupted and is now the thing it was meant to fight. Nietzsche's quote about taking care not to become a monster while fighting monsters is apt here. The corruption of the tiger's eye is furthered when it is on the blue tokar. A tokar in the series has the symbolism of being a chain and not just any shackles, cultural and traditional shackles. Martin is commenting on the change and corruption of symbols i.e. the swastika, a symbol of good luck taken and corrupted and signals evil and hatred. 40 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: I can see where you're going with this, in terms of Sansa being the 'blue falcon' traitor responsible for her father's downfall, at the end of Olenna's almost accusing glance -- at least that's the way Sansa's guilty subconscious conscience is interpreting it. It's reminiscent of this passage: It is because Sansa here is viewing herself through Lady Olenna, a mirror reflecting back her evil gaze upon herself. In terms of Varamyr, as an AA/BSE figure he is casting his evil eye upon the women like a sword thrust through the back for Cat and Nissa Nissa and he blesses them with children i.e. setting them on fire, exploding them into dragon meteors. It's the broken promise dagger baby in between the breast. 52 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Notice that a profusion of lies, eyes, seeing, shutters, darkness, and other related words are emphasized and linked -- there is a wordplay on LIES and EYES and YES and AYES and I -es (the selfish 'I', the ego of 'pluralis majestatis' -- the 'royal we' being the ego which multiplies itself, who asserts itself at the expense of others). In terms of the 'blue falcon' motif, Sansa was witness to the murder of a family member (Lysa was her blood; Petyr is not), followed by the elaborate cover-up of the crime in which she's been complicit, together with the scapegoating of an innocent man, which she then seeks to justify with all sorts of lies and obfuscation (the 'mist' of the 'misty morn/mourn', Petyr's 'fog' of deception, including pre-eminently her own self-deception, the comforting oblivion in which she is losing herself). Watcher's and the eyes are not innocent of the crime. Robb hung a man last for being the lookout when children were murdered. And yes on the misty morn being Petyr and he is the only one that knows the way out since when he was a boy he lead Lysa and Cat out of a mist. What's the saying, "In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloubieBoulga Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 5 hours ago, ravenous reader said: Quote A Feast for Crows - Sansa I That night the dead man sang "The Day They Hanged Black Robin," "The Mother's Tears," and "The Rains of Castamere." Then he stopped for a while, but just as Sansa began to drift off he started to play again. He sang "Six Sorrows," "Fallen Leaves," and "Alysanne." Such sad songs, she thought. When she closed her eyes she could see him in his sky cell, huddled in a corner away from the cold black sky, crouched beneath a fur with his woodharp cradled against his chest. I must not pity him, she told herself. He was vain and cruel, and soon he will be dead. She could not save him. And why should she want to? Marillion tried to rape her, and Petyr had saved her life not once but twice. Some lies you have to tell. Lies had been all that kept her alive in King's Landing. If she had not lied to Joffrey, his Kingsguard would have beat her bloody. After "Alysanne" the singer stopped again, long enough for Sansa to snatch an hour's rest. But as the first light of dawn was prying at her shutters, she heard the soft strains of "On a Misty Morn" drifting up from below, and woke at once. That was more properly a woman's song, a lament sung by a mother on the dawn after some terrible battle, as she searches amongst the dead for the body of her only son. The mother sings her grief for her dead son, Sansa thought, but Marillion grieves for his fingers, for his eyes. The words rose like arrows and pierced her in the darkness. P.S. @GloubieBoulga This quote (above) may interest you, especially in light of your evolving thoughts on the sacrificed wolf maiden and/or child you mentioned earlier. Thanks Ravenous ! And also the quote about Varamyr casting maiden with his shadowcat is interesting me. Varamyr is also the one who wanted Ghost and thought that a direwolf would be a very royal animal for a second life. Just to precise : it's not a wolf maiden but a bear maiden that I see (but I can be wrong about it) : this is the lover who is a wolf, and a wolf bastard => which is conducting us (with Sansa) to a surprising and unexpected Jon-Sansa couple. I now wonder if it could be an end for them, even if I find more clues for a Sansa-Tyrion ending there are some for a Sansa-Jon. I was developping a bit the sequence with baby Sam saved from the hunted Other by a pair of bears (Grenn and Small Paul), and without making the connection with Ned saving baby Jon, the black bastard. But now that conducts me to figure a third woman (a maiden ? or a maiden-and-mother figure ? Or a mother figure ?) : the bastard's mother. With perhaps the possibility that there were many bastard's mother with many bastard babies who were sacrificed... and eated at the table of a certain king of Winter. (Cersei in AFFC thinking to Robert : "I was eating your heirs"), before one of them was saved (why this one ? Who was his mother ?). Around the Bolton, we have this kind of "bastard's mother" (real or symbollic) : Barbrey Dustin, the 2 miller's wives (the mother of Ramsay, and the mother of the 2 boys that Theon ordered to kill instead Bran and Rickon, with the ambiguity about Theon possibly fathering one of the 2 boys), and a feast with Walder's sons as meat. I believe I will re-thinking all the Lyanna's stuff, and also all my little narrative shemes (that's a kind of puzzle without ending ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unchained Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, GloubieBoulga said: Thanks Ravenous ! And also the quote about Varamyr casting maiden with his shadowcat is interesting me. Varamyr is also the one who wanted Ghost and thought that a direwolf would be a very royal animal for a second life. Just to precise : it's not a wolf maiden but a bear maiden that I see (but I can be wrong about it) : this is the lover who is a wolf, and a wolf bastard => which is conducting us (with Sansa) to a surprising and unexpected Jon-Sansa couple. I now wonder if it could be an end for them, even if I find more clues for a Sansa-Tyrion ending there are some for a Sansa-Jon. I was developping a bit the sequence with baby Sam saved from the hunted Other by a pair of bears (Grenn and Small Paul), and without making the connection with Ned saving baby Jon, the black bastard. But now that conducts me to figure a third woman (a maiden ? or a maiden-and-mother figure ? Or a mother figure ?) : the bastard's mother. With perhaps the possibility that there were many bastard's mother with many bastard babies who were sacrificed... and eated at the table of a certain king of Winter. (Cersei in AFFC thinking to Robert : "I was eating your heirs"), before one of them was saved (why this one ? Who was his mother ?). Around the Bolton, we have this kind of "bastard's mother" (real or symbollic) : Barbrey Dustin, the 2 miller's wives (the mother of Ramsay, and the mother of the 2 boys that Theon ordered to kill instead Bran and Rickon, with the ambiguity about Theon possibly fathering one of the 2 boys), and a feast with Walder's sons as meat. I believe I will re-thinking all the Lyanna's stuff, and also all my little narrative shemes (that's a kind of puzzle without ending ) Hey Gloubie I am working on something about the root story that repeats itself too. I keep waiting to see your thread pop up to read it, but I always miss it I guess. Would you be so kind as to provide a link? Be warned I may steal something, but will of course give you all credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Pain killer Jane said: Tiger's eye was meant to ward off the eye evil but in the first Tyrion quote it is paired with tourmaline. Tourmaline is a pyroelectric magnet and it attracts hot ashes. I take the tourmaline to be a sin eater since ashes can be sins. Therefore those two being paired on the hand of a corrupted and bloated greenseer tells me that the purpose of the Tiger's eye has been corrupted and is now the thing it was meant to fight. Nietzsche's quote about taking care not to become a monster while fighting monsters is apt here. The corruption of the tiger's eye is furthered when it is on the blue tokar. A tokar in the series has the symbolism of being a chain and not just any shackles, cultural and traditional shackles. Martin is commenting on the change and corruption of symbols i.e. the swastika, a symbol of good luck taken and corrupted and signals evil and hatred. And: Spoiler Tiger's eye Polished tiger's eye gemstone General Category Mineral Formula(repeating unit) Silica (silicon dioxide, SiO2) Identification Colour golden to red-brown Mohs scale hardness 5.5 - 6 Luster Silky Specific gravity 2.64 – 2.71 VS Spoiler Chalcedony A cut and polished Chalcedony geode General Category Oxide minerals, quartz group Formula(repeating unit) Silica (silicon dioxide, SiO2) Crystal system Trigonal or monoclinic And Spoiler Heliotrope A heliotrope, also known as a bloodstone. General Category Mineral Formula(repeating unit) SiO2 (silicon dioxide) Crystal system Trigonal And: Spoiler Amethyst Amethyst cluster from Magaliesburg, South Africa. General Category oxide mineral Formula(repeating unit) Silica (silicon dioxide, SiO2) Crystal system Trigonal Crystal class Trapezohedral (32) Therefore, Tiger's Eye = Amethyst. So this might be yet another clue that BE's wife, the tiger woman is the same person as Amethyst Empress and Nissa Nissa. But, tiger's eye = bloodstone as well.... IDK what this means... Maybe that 'corruption of symbols' you spoke of here... Quote Martin is commenting on the change and corruption of symbols i.e. the swastika, a symbol of good luck taken and corrupted and signals evil and hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Ice-Eyes Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Can you explain the link between stones that you're drawing? I do not see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jon Ice-Eyes said: Can you explain the link between stones that you're drawing? I do not see it. They're all silicon dioxide, SiO2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain killer Jane Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 10 hours ago, Blue Tiger said: Therefore, Tiger's Eye = Amethyst. So this might be yet another clue that BE's wife, the tiger woman is the same person as Amethyst Empress and Nissa Nissa. But, tiger's eye = bloodstone as well.... IDK what this means... Maybe that 'corruption of symbols' you spoke of here... Well look at Spotted Sylva being shipped off to Greenstone to marry Lord Estermont. House Santagar's sigil is a spotted cat with a long axe. The ax with the cat is pointing us towards Aero Hotah and his ash and iron wife which is symbolic of the weirwood (ironwood, Blackwood, Black gate etc. etc.) and CotF. It has been noted that freckling people end up murder and symbolically sacrificed. Remember way back when in one of @LmL's first essay he noted that the mythology of the creation of the bloodstone involved was because Christ's blood dripped on the stone. The corruption isn't because the blood is corrupted in and of itself (even though it maybe the case in some blood like Targs) the action of the Blood Betrayal made the blood and thus the bloodstone corrupted. Btw I take Santagar to be Holy Fish. Since Santa is the Spanish word for Saint and a saint is a person martyred and a Gar is a fish, a symbol for Christianity. But per GRRM it is an inversion of Christ's martyrdom as we have clues that the blood betrayal was an unwilling martyr. And viewing Santagar as Holy Fish connects Elenei, the mermaid taken to wife by the Grey King, and Lady Donnella Horwood nee Manderly; a mermaid married to a hornlord then sacrificed by an AA/BSE symbolic person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain killer Jane Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jon Ice-Eyes said: Can you explain the link between stones that you're drawing? I do not see it. All are Silicon Dioxides but are different due to their impurities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Pain killer Jane said: Well look at Spotted Sylva being shipped off to Greenstone to marry Lord Estermont. House Santagar's sigil is a spotted cat with a long axe. The ax with the cat is pointing us towards Aero Hotah and his ash and iron wife which is symbolic of the weirwood (ironwood, Blackwood, Black gate etc. etc.) and CotF. It has been noted that freckling people end up murder and symbolically sacrificed. Remember way back when in one of @LmL's first essay he noted that the mythology of the creation of the bloodstone involved was because Christ's blood dripped on the stone. The corruption isn't because the blood is corrupted in and of itself (even though it maybe the case in some blood like Targs) the action of the Blood Betrayal made the blood and thus the bloodstone corrupted. Btw I take Santagar to be Holy Fish. Since Santa is the Spanish word for Saint and a saint is a person martyred and a Gar is a fish, a symbol for Christianity. But per GRRM it is an inversion of Christ's martyrdom as we have clues that the blood betrayal was an unwilling martyr. And viewing Santagar as Holy Fish connects Elenei, the mermaid taken to wife by the Grey King, and Lady Donnella Horwood nee Manderly; a mermaid married to a hornlord then sacrificed by an AA/BSE symbolic person. That'd explain why the head of House Santagar is Ser Symon Santagar, Sylva's father. And of course, Christanity's first pope was Simon Peter (peter = rock/stone). Hmmm.... That explains why Ser Aron is killed in this gresome way: Quote Ser Preston's corpse had been overlooked at first; the gold cloaks had been searching for a knight in white armor, and he had been stabbed and hacked so cruelly that he was red-brown from head to heel. Ser Aron Santagar had been found in a gutter, his head a red pulp inside a crushed helm. Lady Tanda's daughter had surrendered her maidenhood to half a hundred shouting men behind a tanner's shop. The gold cloaks found her wandering naked on Sowbelly Row. Quote Blood was trickling down Sansa's brow from a deep gash on her scalp. "They . . . they were throwing things . . . rocks and filth, eggs . . . I tried to tell them, I had no bread to give them. A man tried to pull me from the saddle. The Hound killed him, I think . . . his arm . . ." Her eyes widened and she put a hand over her mouth. "He cut off his arm." Clegane lifted her to the ground. His white cloak was torn and stained, and blood seeped through a jagged tear in his left sleeve. "The little bird's bleeding. Someone take her back to her cage and see to that cut." Maester Frenken scurried forward to obey. "They did for Santagar," the Hound continued. "Four men held him down and took turns bashing at his head with a cobblestone. I gutted one, not that it did Ser Aron much good." Lady Tanda approached him. "My daughter—" Note how GRRM manages to put Lady Tanda Stokeworth there... and of course the Stokeworth sigil is a nod to The Holy Grail and The Lamb of God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain killer Jane Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: Note how GRRM manages to put Lady Tanda Stokeworth there... and of course the Stokeworth sigil is a nod to The Holy Grail and The Lamb of God... Yes exactly and who is now headed by Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, he is ultimately a AA/BSE type symbol, the Tattered Prince/Grey King version that @Crowfood's Daughter was speaking about in her latest thread. 12 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: That'd explain why the head of House Santagar is Ser Symon Santagar, Sylva's father. Symon Silvertongue becoming Singer's Stew which the sacrifice and taking of power is accompanied by cannibalism. But we have Symeon Star-eye and his Qartheen counterpart Sybassion, one taking secret knowledge to see and the other cannibalizing eyes in order to see. 15 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: And of course, Christanity's first pope was Simon Peter (peter = rock/stone). I usually connect the first pope to my Blue Falcon theory. Peter denies Christ three times before the Rooster crows. Thus he is a betrayer of sorts. The rooster or cock because of this story and the repentance and accession of Peter to the head of the holy mother church was then hailed as a symbol of Christianity. This connects with the series through House Swyft's sigil of a blue rooster and their words Awake! Awake! basically pointing them out as heralds of the dawn or more accurately the morning/mourning pun, making House Swyft heralds of death. There is also a connect via vain and vane as in weathervane, a rooster that changes direction accroding to how the wind blows, i.e. a treacherous bastard and the having of traitor's blood in the veins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain killer Jane Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said: Note how GRRM manages to put Lady Tanda Stokeworth there... and of course the Stokeworth sigil is a nod to The Holy Grail and The Lamb of God... and look at the place symbolically where Lolys is raped behind a Tanner's Shop. Quote The night was rank with the smell of man. The warg stopped beneath a tree and sniffed, his grey-brown fur dappled by shadow. A sigh of piney wind brought the man-scent to him, over fainter smells that spoke of fox and hare, seal and stag, even wolf. Those were man-smells too, the warg knew; the stink of old skins, dead and sour, near drowned beneath the stronger scents of smoke and blood and rot. Only man stripped the skins from other beasts and wore their hides and hair. -Pologue Tanning is a rather disgusting smelling process that takes that stripped skin (strips of skin is akin to wearing motley) and towards it into clothing which at several points within the story signals power. Wearing the skins of beast signals power as well since these words are said by a rapist worshiped lord. Quote She watched Viserion climb in widening circles until he was lost to sight beyond the muddy waters of the Skahazadhan. Only then did Dany go back inside the pyramid, where Irri and Jhiqui were waiting to brush the tangles from her hair and garb her as befit the Queen of Meereen, in a Ghiscari tokar. The garment was a clumsy thing, a long loose shapeless sheet that had to be wound around her hips and under an arm and over a shoulder, its dangling fringes carefully layered and displayed. Wound too loose, it was like to fall off; wound too tight, it would tangle, trip, and bind. Even wound properly, the tokar required its wearer to hold it in place with the left hand. Walking in a tokar demanded small, mincing steps and exquisite balance, lest one tread upon those heavy trailing fringes. It was not a garment meant for any man who had to work. The tokar was a master's garment, a sign of wealth and power. Dany had wanted to ban the tokar when she took Meereen, but her advisors had convinced her otherwise. "The Mother of Dragons must don the tokar or be forever hated," warned the Green Grace, Galazza Galare. "In the wools of Westeros or a gown of Myrish lace, Your Radiance shall forever remain a stranger amongst us, a grotesque outlander, a barbarian conqueror. Meereen's queen must be a lady of Old Ghis." Brown Ben Plumm, the captain of the Second Sons, had put it more succinctly. "Man wants to be the king o' the rabbits, he best wear a pair o' floppy ears." -Dany I, aDwd A tokar isn't strictly made from animals but it is likened to animal hide through Brown Ben Plumm's analogy. And in the end, Lolys' son is named Tyrion Tanner not Tyrion Waters which tells us the origin of skinchangers and dragon people since Dany wears the skinned lion pelt, the skinned lion being a allusion to the striping of power of the tiger woman. (I feel like I should add there are many ways to skin a cat and make a skinchange or a powerful person). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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