Plan a successful Dothraki invasion

[Frey Kings]

Pick a time in the series for example I pick: Before all hell breaks loose like

Bobby is still the King, Ned still has his head, Jon Arryn is still the Hand....

 

 

My Plan:

-Viserys' marriage pact with Dorne takes place
-Daenerys' secretly agrees to marry her nephew after Khal Drogo dies, therefore enlisting the help of the Golden Company
-Varys does his schemeing 
-Powerhungry houses in the Reach succumbs to temption, joins the invasion force
-Successful landing of 40,000 Dothraki Screamers somewhere in the Crownlands or Stormlands
-The Dothraki agrees to be lead by the GC, the Dornish and the Reach's commanders each fielding about 10k, 15-20k, 50-75k fighters
-Illyrio Mopatis sets up funding to the invasion forces with other rich merchants and bankers maintaining supply lines 
-Jaime Lannister decides he wants all the glory and meets Khal Drogo in the vanguard 
-They both critical injure each other and die
-Dothrakis scatter, some are killed by loyalists, some are killed by the terrain, some decide to follow another Khal and decide to go pillage somewhere else... 
-The other armies don't care because they captured King's Landing and installed Viserys/Arianne or Daenerys/Aegon as their new King and 

[Frey Kings]

Second Plan

 

Viserys and his 40,000 Dothraki Screamers land somewhere in The North after the WOT5K, they rape and pillage the local area and somehow end up going North instead of South and end up occupying the 19 castles forming a new Night's Watch. 

[Graydon Hicks]

i think the first target to be taken would dragonstone. the ancestral home of the targaryens. from there, it would easy to land and begin raiding into the crownlands, demanding immediate fealty from the lords of crackclaw point, and other valyrian island houses, or face the horde of dothraki screamers burning your lands and people to ash, or taking them as slaves.

[Shi Qiang]

It's simple.  Lure the armies of Westeros out in the open field and out of their castles.  No army can withstand the Dothraki out in the open. 

It takes patience to wait out while the lords are hiding behind their stone walls.  The lords will have to come out eventually and face the Dothraki in open battle.  Then it's time for the Dothraki to massacre the men in their iron suits. 

[SeaWitch]

The Dothraki are kind of a one-use 'point and shoot'.  What do you with them once they've happened to a locality? Their entire way of life is inimical to Westeros.

[Shi Qiang]

3 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

The Dothraki are kind of a one-use 'point and shoot'.  What do you with them once they've happened to a locality? Their entire way of life is inimical to Westeros.

There are unlimited number of options.  They can go back across the Narrow Sea.  They can learn agriculture.  It's no different from the Ironborn and the Wildlings changing.  The khals who choose to stay can be given the lands of those who opposed the return of the royal family.  I would give The Vale, Storm's End, and Winterfell to the Dothraki.  What remains of the Darry family will be the new lord paramount of the Riverlands.  Casterly Rock will become the property of the crown.

[SeaWitch]

Hmm...'can' and 'be willing to' are very different.  How do you deal with several thousand nomadic nutcases who don't want to change, and are now loose in your lands?  You've invited them in, so any opposition isn't going to ally with you.  And your populace will be too busy fleeing into neighbouring territory to farm, trade or grovel appropriately to you.

(I really think bringing Dothraki over is a Bad Idea, anyway.)

[Ralphis Baratheon]

As soon as Drogo dies the Dothraki would split up and end up going South raping and pillaging the Reach and Dorne. Khal Drogo would never fall into command he'd challenge the Golden Company leader to singles combat for control. He'd want nothing less then complete control and complete victory in his name. He is a decorated warlord after all. Ego is everything to Dothraki.

Without armor or a horse two handed Jamie Lannister would make short work of Drogo. Armor is just too important in a one on one fight and Jamie is just too good.

[Shi Qiang]

36 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

Hmm...'can' and 'be willing to' are very different.  How do you deal with several thousand nomadic nutcases who don't want to change, and are now loose in your lands?  You've invited them in, so any opposition isn't going to ally with you.  And your populace will be too busy fleeing into neighbouring territory to farm, trade or grovel appropriately to you.

(I really think bringing Dothraki over is a Bad Idea, anyway.)

How do you deal with Wildling nutcases who pretend to follow rules but really will revert back to their unlawful ways? 

Dany is much, much better equipped to change the Dothraki than Jon is in changing the free folk.  A woman who can end the practice of thousands of years of slavery can change the Dothraki way of life.  I have confidence in Dany.

[Shi Qiang]

38 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

As soon as Drogo dies the Dothraki would split up and end up going South raping and pillaging the Reach and Dorne. Khal Drogo would never fall into command he'd challenge the Golden Company leader to singles combat for control. He'd want nothing less then complete control and complete victory in his name. He is a decorated warlord after all. Ego is everything to Dothraki.

Without armor or a horse two handed Jamie Lannister would make short work of Drogo. Armor is just too important in a one on one fight and Jamie is just too good.

Jaime would have the edge on Drogo.  You may be right about that.  The Unsullied though would never fight Jaime on a duel.  They would do to him what the Raven's Teeth did to the Blackfyres.  You know what would be really cool to read?  The Unsullied surrounding Jaime with their locked shields, stabbing him him from all directions and letting him die slowly.  The Dothraki surrounding Bron in a circular riding formation and filling him with arrows.

[Shi Qiang]

47 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

I really think bringing Dothraki over is a Bad Idea, anyway

IT depends on who brings them.  Dany can change their way of life. 

[Lion of the West]

57 minutes ago, Allardyce said:

It's simple.  Lure the armies of Westeros out in the open field and out of their castles.  No army can withstand the Dothraki out in the open. 

It takes patience to wait out while the lords are hiding behind their stone walls.  The lords will have to come out eventually and face the Dothraki in open battle.  Then it's time for the Dothraki to massacre the men in their iron suits. 

This is the basics of it.

if the Dothraki are to be of any real use then they must draw the Westeros out into the open field away from forests, rivers and castles and there destroy the Westerosi so that the following sieges will be made easier if outright surrender from castles and towns can't be assured. If the Dothraki can't draw their enemies into the field then they will do little good save kill and rape the tax payers of the present and future.

I think the important part here is to know what will trigger each enemy leader to commit to an open battle as there isn't a single reason which will move all of them. Tywin for example is likely to be concerned if the Westerland gold mines are attacked and destroyed while Stannis may be drawn into battle by harrying his smallfolk, Robb will come running if his kin and kith are put in danger and so on, and Mace may well jump straight into the shark pool if he thinks he'll score a great victory to his name.Its a mistake to make some generalizations of how the Westerosi will react at large just as I think that its a waste of the Dothraki to bog them down with sieges. Speed is on the Dothraki sides while time is not, due to the coming winter and the Dothraki should really have finished their campaigning when winter arrives or they'll be in trouble if they can't find shelter and food through this multi-year long winter for both themselves and their horses., thus they should use this speed of theirs and not risk their 40 000 Screamers dying of dysentery outside some castle.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

13 minutes ago, Allardyce said:

Jaime would have the edge on Drogo.  You may be right about that.  The Unsullied though would never fight Jaime on a duel.  They would do to him what the Raven's Teeth did to the Blackfyres.  You know what would be really cool to read?  The Unsullied surrounding Jaime with their locked shields, stabbing him him from all directions and letting him die slowly.  The Dothraki surrounding Bron in a circular riding formation and filling him with arrows.

I don't think the Unsullied use long bows. They'd have to catch Jamie first. Tywin, Stannis, Randyll Tarly and the rest of the great Westerosi battle commanders would not be out maneuvered easily on their home field. 

[WSmith84]

The problem with the Dothraki is that they're just more trouble than they're worth. Their military capabilities are extremely limited, they would be an absolute logistical nightmare to even get them to Westeros and then you have to do something with them afterwards. Their loyalty only lasts as long as their Khal is alive (and an armourless man would not last too quickly in a Westerosi war); after that, they disperse and form new Khalasars. They are a PR nightmare, being slavers, and they would quickly eat any part of the countryside they're in bare.

[Graydon Hicks]

14 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I don't think the Unsullied use long bows. They'd have to catch Jamie first. Tywin, Stannis, Randyll Tarly and the rest of the great Westerosi battle commanders would not be out maneuvered easily on their home field. 

actually, they do use dragonbone bows. dany described one at her wedding to drogo that was longer then she was tall.

on the tactics side, i think the dothraki would be hell on wheels, or rather hooves, against the regular foot men, the kind of momentum they could bring while swinging an arahk from horse back would shear into the light armor of the foot troops, just not as easily as they are used to when fighting each other. but against armor knights, the arahk would be less effective. oh, they'll definitely get lots of kills, but the first blow likely wont punch through the armor, but it will knock them on their asses. thats a lot of force behind those blows. i think she should focus on using her unsullied against the knights and more heavily armored forces, and use her dothraki to carve pieces off the foot men, and deal heavy damage to the supply trains. and once the enemy get massed to charge against an unsullied phalanx line, then the dragon swoop in and strafe the grouped targets with fire.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

54 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

actually, they do use dragonbone bows. dany described one at her wedding to drogo that was longer then she was tall.

I don't know where your getting that from as Unsullied are equipped with short spears, swords, and round shields. I think your confusing the Unsullied with the Dothraki when it comes to bows. As the one Dany describes is a gift to her and Drogo from Qotho who is Drogo's bloodrider not an Unsullied.

In this scenario with Drogo alive I don't think Dany has dragons. Also I still don't see Drogo taking orders from anyone. So that's going to be a problem for any invading force as I don't see 40,000 Dothraki alone conquering a united Westeros. Sure they'd do a ton of damage but at some point Tywin, Randyll Tarly and the other great Westerosi generals would take the field. Seeing as Drogo is the type to lead from the front and not sit back and command he would die sooner rather then later. As soon as Drogo dies the Dothraki will splinter off, fight and kill each other then wander off like they did in canon when Drogo died.

[Stormking902]

Man the Dothraki dont stand a chance and never would without help from dragons period, they have no armor and weapons that basically have no effect against plate armor unless your good enough to shoot an arrow through his eye which is almost impossible while on a battlefield fighting. Westeros has better everything including battle tactics. If I was a commander in Westeros I would lure the dothraki into the open which they believe is there advantage but I would lace the ground with tens of thousands of sharp spikes and hidden holes so the horses would immediatly throw the dothraki off there back making them very easy pickings for my vanguard I send in on foot, My plan is very time consuming but well worth the results.

[The hairy bear]

19 hours ago, Allardyce said:

It's simple.  Lure the armies of Westeros out in the open field and out of their castles.  No army can withstand the Dothraki out in the open.

As I see it, the idea that the Dothraki could stand against a similarly sized force of disciplined armoured soldiers is unrealistic.

The Dothraki can be useful for pillaging undefended towns, ambush small forces or plundering supply lines. But against actual armies, they have no chance. In this regard it's worth remembering the precedent of the three thousand of Qohor, when a small company of lightly armoured disciplined unsullied defeated a whole khalasar.

[Graydon Hicks]

29 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Man the Dothraki dont stand a chance and never would without help from dragons period, they have no armor and weapons that basically have no effect against plate armor unless your good enough to shoot an arrow through his eye which is almost impossible while on a battlefield fighting. Westeros has better everything including battle tactics. If I was a commander in Westeros I would lure the dothraki into the open which they believe is there advantage but I would lace the ground with tens of thousands of sharp spikes and hidden holes so the horses would immediatly throw the dothraki off there back making them very easy pickings for my vanguard I send in on foot, My plan is very time consuming but well worth the results.

yeah, the dothraki are at a major disadvantage, they wear no armor, have no discipline. their are likely the fiercest fighters west of the Bones, but against armored knights they are going to have a problem. but the thing is that their types of mounted combat are so different i dont foresee much of a direct clash, or at least not often. the dothraki are a light cavalry force, fast flanking attacks that tear at the enemy from the side, before moving in for a close melee. mounted knights are going to focus on using their armor, horses, sheer momentum and weight, and lances to their advantage, which means a direct heavy charge, lances bared, to impact the foe with the maximum possible speed and force. at those velocities, a knight might be able to spit up to two un-armored men on one lance. but the dothraki arent going to stand there and meet the charge, their are going to flow around the column, then hit from the sides. 

now this is where the difference in armor and weapons really takes affect. the knights, and any heavy cavalry, are going to be wearing heavier armor than regular foot, either full plate or mix of plate and chain. the dothraki arahks will have a lot of difficulty against the plate, less so against the chain. but still greater resistance than they have ever faced when killing one another. the arahk just isnt shaped to punch into plate armor. they dont focus enough of the force of a swing at a single point on the blade, the curve spreads it out. a straight blade works better on plate because with a thrust, all that force is focused at the point of the sword. but hammers or axes are better still against plate, the impact force, plus the greater weight of the weapon is directed a much more localized area. the best is something with a spiked point at the weighted end, maximum power focused on the smallest possible point of impact.

her best troops t meet the knights and cavalry will be the unsullied. that discipline and training, plus a preference for spears, would world best against a mounted force.

[Adam Yozza]

If I have to take the Seven Kingdoms with just the Dothraki then I immediately give up. It's not possible. The Dothraki are next to useless in an assault or a siege, and even if all the Westerosi armies are defeated in open combat you still have to capture key locations like King's Landing and Dragonstone, among others.

On the PR side of things, the Dothraki do more harm than good. Just by bringing the raiding, reaving, raping and murdering slavers to Westeros, you turn any potential sympathizer's against you. The second you loose the Dothraki onto the countryside, you turn yourself into the evil, invading tyrant who is destroying the country rather than the conquering hero you're hoping for.

Logistically, the Dothraki are a nightmare. To transport all the Dothraki, their slaves and their horses you're going to need a fleet that is implausibly large. How are you going to get such a fleet when the most Illyrio can give you is a few Galley's and you've no money of your own? Illyrio is quite rich but I don't think he alone can supply you with enough for any invasion and the Iron Bank certainly won't help you. Add on the cost of feeding them for the journey and it even more unlikely they'll ever be able to leave Essos. Even if you do get enough ships, you're going to lose a lot on the way, no matter where you sail from. Crossing from Pentos won't happen because Braavos with destroy as you leave port. Sail from Volantis or Quarth and you have to pass through the Stepstones and an area named after it's ferocious storm's. 

The fact that the unarmoured Drogo leads from the front is also an extreme weakness. Which means he's going to run into Jaime Lannister, Garlan Tyrell, Rolland Storm or someone along those lines who will tear Drogo to pieces. After that, the horde splits into ten or twenty smaller groups at best and you lose your army.

I think people are overestimating the Dothraki ability to win an open battle. Very rarely do we ever see them use a tactic other than 'charge and then keep charging until we either die or win'. Against organized lines of pikes, spears and men at arms with spikes and pits being set up and supported by plated knights who most Dothraki would stupidly meet head on they will be cut to pieces. And no matter what Jorah claims, most Dothraki bows will not outrange the Westerosi longbow. The few dragonbone bows they have are invaluable but you'd have to be an idiot to think that such bows are the norm. The strategic skills of characters like Tywin, Stannis, Tarly and the Blackfish would mean the Dothraki would get outmaneuvered at every turn, especially since they're playing on their own turf. Not to mention how badly outnumbered the Dothraki would be. Even if they won their initial battles, they'd take heavy losses because of their lack of armour and eventually sheer numbers would win. 70/80k Reachmen, 40k Westermen, 30k Stormlords, 20k Crownlanders, 20k Riverlanders and 30k for both the North and the Vale against 40k Dothraki? I know who my money would be on.

So no, invading Westeros with the Dothraki; at any point in the story; is a bad idea. It won't work.