Plan a successful Dothraki invasion

[snow is the man]

jaime would kill drogo easy. Jaime goes int battle in plate armor and dogo's weapon would be next to useless against it. A slashing and chopping weapon against plate is all but useless. Drogo wears no armor and despite being a good fighter that would be the death of him when going against someone as good as jaime lannister when he had two hands.  This goes for all the dothraki in truth. They don't where armor because they believe it cowardyly and they would get destroyed in westeroes because of it. And even if the dothraki were met in open battle they would be slaughtered. The dothraki would do well against unarmored foot soldiers but  a hundred knights in full armor would be worth a thousand dothraki or more. And that's not even taking into account that fighting in the north would be the end of the dothraki.  The dothraki and their special dragonbone bows are about the only thing they could use against the knights that would be worth anything. Unless the dothraki came in numbers that essentially dwarfed westero's I wouldn't bet on them. Also the entire realm would firmly unite against dothraki coming. And visery's would be the death of them since he is an idiot.

[Graydon Hicks]

13 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

If I have to take the Seven Kingdoms with just the Dothraki then I immediately give up. It's not possible. The Dothraki are next to useless in an assault or a siege, and even if all the Westerosi armies are defeated in open combat you still have to capture key locations like King's Landing and Dragonstone, among others.

On the PR side of things, the Dothraki do more harm than good. Just by bringing the raiding, reaving, raping and murdering slavers to Westeros, you turn any potential sympathizer's against you. The second you loose the Dothraki onto the countryside, you turn yourself into the evil, invading tyrant who is destroying the country rather than the conquering hero you're hoping for.

Logistically, the Dothraki are a nightmare. To transport all the Dothraki, their slaves and their horses you're going to need a fleet that is implausibly large. How are you going to get such a fleet when the most Illyrio can give you is a few Galley's and you've no money of your own? Illyrio is quite rich but I don't think he alone can supply you with enough for any invasion and the Iron Bank certainly won't help you. Add on the cost of feeding them for the journey and it even more unlikely they'll ever be able to leave Essos. Even if you do get enough ships, you're going to lose a lot on the way, no matter where you sail from. Crossing from Pentos won't happen because Braavos with destroy as you leave port. Sail from Volantis or Quarth and you have to pass through the Stepstones and an area named after it's ferocious storm's. 

The fact that the unarmoured Drogo leads from the front is also an extreme weakness. Which means he's going to run into Jaime Lannister, Garlan Tyrell, Rolland Storm or someone along those lines who will tear Drogo to pieces. After that, the horde splits into ten or twenty smaller groups at best and you lose your army.

I think people are overestimating the Dothraki ability to win an open battle. Very rarely do we ever see them use a tactic other than 'charge and then keep charging until we either die or win'. Against organized lines of pikes, spears and men at arms with spikes and pits being set up and supported by plated knights who most Dothraki would stupidly meet head on they will be cut to pieces. And no matter what Jorah claims, most Dothraki bows will not outrange the Westerosi longbow. The few dragonbone bows they have are invaluable but you'd have to be an idiot to think that such bows are the norm. The strategic skills of characters like Tywin, Stannis, Tarly and the Blackfish would mean the Dothraki would get outmaneuvered at every turn, especially since they're playing on their own turf. Not to mention how badly outnumbered the Dothraki would be. Even if they won their initial battles, they'd take heavy losses because of their lack of armour and eventually sheer numbers would win. 70/80k Reachmen, 40k Westermen, 30k Stormlords, 20k Crownlanders, 20k Riverlanders and 30k for both the North and the Vale against 40k Dothraki? I know who my money would be on.

So no, invading Westeros with the Dothraki; at any point in the story; is a bad idea. It won't work.

i agree, but that doesnt mean the westerosi wont take some serious losses, just that losses would favor the westerosi over the dothraki.

[Victor Newman]

On 5/28/2017 at 10:48 AM, SeaWitch said:

Hmm...'can' and 'be willing to' are very different.  How do you deal with several thousand nomadic nutcases who don't want to change, and are now loose in your lands?  You've invited them in, so any opposition isn't going to ally with you.  And your populace will be too busy fleeing into neighbouring territory to farm, trade or grovel appropriately to you.

(I really think bringing Dothraki over is a Bad Idea, anyway.)

I disagree with this.  The Dothraki will be no different from the Ironborn, Dorne, and the Wildlings.  Different cultures exists in Westeros and as long as you have a strong leader like Daenerys on the throne they will abide by the rules.  Yes there will be violations like those lords in the north continuing to bop every pretty bride of their bannermen and making sacrifices to those damned trees.  However, the Dothraki can obey the laws just as well as those aforementioned groups. 

[SeaWitch]

3 hours ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:

I disagree with this.  The Dothraki will be no different from the Ironborn, Dorne, and the Wildlings.  Different cultures exists in Westeros and as long as you have a strong leader like Daenerys on the throne they will abide by the rules.  Yes there will be violations like those lords in the north continuing to bop every pretty bride of their bannermen and making sacrifices to those damned trees.  However, the Dothraki can obey the laws just as well as those aforementioned groups. 

We've not seen the Ironborn change, yet, and it's only a decade since they kicked off in rebellion. (Also, Euron is not exactly a peaceful conciliatory type.) Similarly, the Wildlings are not yet integrated.  But both of these cultures are considerably nearer a baseline than the Dothraki.  They'll obey to a certain degree whilst a strong ruler rewards them, but they are culturally nomadic, non-agrarian and disposed to slaving.  I really don't think they will mix well.  Where do they and their horse herds roam once they've finished fighting? 

[Shi Qiang]

On 5/29/2017 at 6:16 AM, The hairy bear said:

As I see it, the idea that the Dothraki could stand against a similarly sized force of disciplined armoured soldiers is unrealistic.

The Dothraki can be useful for pillaging undefended towns, ambush small forces or plundering supply lines. But against actual armies, they have no chance. In this regard it's worth remembering the precedent of the three thousand of Qohor, when a small company of lightly armoured disciplined unsullied defeated a whole khalasar.

The Unsullied are the best infantry in the world and even those men in their metal suits would not be able to defeat them in battle.  We are not talking about single combat.  We are talking about team work on the battlefield.  The ancient region of Old Ghis withstood the Valyrians and their dragons and fought them four times.  It was not until battle #5 that they finally lost.  The Unsullied are the modern incarnation of the armies of Old Ghis.   Aegon only had three dragons and he had an easy time defeating those overblown Westeros knights and their farm boys.   I can see how the Dothraki had trouble at Qohor.  They will thankfully not face anything as formidable as the Unsullied in Westeros.

[Graydon Hicks]

i still think that, one on one, the average knight, one thats earned his knighthood, not simply given it because of family, would be better, but yes, there is a significant disparity in formation team work between unsullied and westerosi. but the westeros commanders might be a bit better that their essosian counterparts.

[The Commentator]

10 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Aegon only had three dragons and he had an easy time defeating those overblown Westeros knights and their farm boys.  

Time and again in the story, GM disperses the illusions that his characters had about the knights.  Whether it's their character, their moral code of chivalry, their fighting prowess, and their honor system.  I still think they are pretty good.  Stannis and his knights made short work of Mance Rayder's wildlings. 

Armoring the Dothraki would slow them down so I would not put heavy plate on them.  Perhaps a light leather plate, light enough to stop arrows beneath chain mail over the torso and helmet.

[Lord Vance II]

Honestly, even as things stand now it's a long shot that she can pull it off without heavy losses, especially in transit and/or if she faces a united resistance. Back then, she didn't stand a chance. I'd've loved to see a heavy cavalry charge cut though a Dothraki hoard like a hot knife through butter though. 

[hodorisfaclessman]

Land them in dorne with golden company where they recieve friendly welcome and the locals will be able to provide enough water to handle the logistical nightmare.

Semd screamers out to pillage and send ravens to demand each kingdom come out and fight or slowly starve when we keep burning  their crops to the ground..wel meet  them in the reach where either 

A) have dothraki form up then use mobility to surround vast  westerosi host just out of arrow range ....use speed to surround the slower armoured force  but not engage

 

If heavy cavalry charges circle spread and allow through  (but close to keep infantey there)  and have the knights that have escaped the blockade  led further and further out from battlefield  ,harassed and broken up ...slowly picked apart..superior horsemanship ,numbers and the knights unease at dealing with such  'cowardly' tactics will ensure they will turn from a packed heavy force to confused individuals strung out and seperated over miles....then killed piecemeal.

The rest will can choose surrender,death of thirst , break up and be cut to ribbons or staying in formation and attempt to move in those formation for hundreds of miles on foot while under constant attack! 

Have plenty of men assigned to bring fresh arrows,

Or  when the knights charge my golden company elphants meet them and crush them...the sheerr bulk and horrses fear of elphant smell and sound  means the cavalry charge will be broken  ..the rest can be finished off easy now their cavalry is dead or fleeing. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

7 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Land them in dorne with golden company where they recieve friendly welcome and the locals will be able to provide enough water to handle the logistical nightmare.

Semd screamers out to pillage and send ravens to demand each kingdom come out and fight or slowly starve when we keep burning  their crops to the ground..wel meet  them in the reach where either 

A) have dothraki form up then use mobility to surround vast  westerosi host just out of arrow range ....use speed to surround the slower armoured force  but not engage

 

If heavy cavalry charges circle spread and allow through  (but close to keep infantey there)  and have the knights that have escaped the blockade  led further and further out from battlefield  ,harassed and broken up ...slowly picked apart..superior horsemanship ,numbers and the knights unease at dealing with such  'cowardly' tactics will ensure they will turn from a packed heavy force to confused individuals strung out and seperated over miles....then killed piecemeal.

The rest will can choose surrender,death of thirst , break up and be cut to ribbons or staying in formation and attempt to move in those formation for hundreds of miles on foot while under constant attack! 

Have plenty of men assigned to bring fresh arrows,

Or  when the knights charge my golden company elphants meet them and crush them...the sheerr bulk and horrses fear of elphant smell and sound  means the cavalry charge will be broken  ..the rest can be finished off easy now their cavalry is dead or fleeing. 

Gonna be lots of dead Dothraki in the passes coming out of Dorne. Lots of dead Dornish elsewhere after that particular set of slaughters was completed.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Just now, Universal Sword Donor said:

Gonna be lots of dead Dothraki in the passes coming out of Dorne. Lots of dead Dornish elsewhere after that particular set of slaughters was completed.

The passes are held by dornish and no one is blocking the other sides 

[Universal Sword Donor]

4 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

The passes are held by dornish and no one is blocking the other sides 

Well if that is the case, then surely Robert just gave Dany his crown too.

[hodorisfaclessman]

5 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Well if that is the case, then surely Robert just gave Dany his crown too.

Cant see any reason robert would be expecting us til wed annouced our intention by raven and had bridgehead secured from dornish pass into reach...after all roberts head of intel is a secret targ loyalist after all.

[Universal Sword Donor]

5 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Cant see any reason robert would be expecting us til wed annouced our intention by raven and had bridgehead secured from dornish pass into reach...after all roberts head of intel is a secret targ loyalist after all.

I mean we're talking hundreds of ships coming out of the Free Cities and landing in Dorne, where there is little usable harbor. Let's skip over the docking and landing issue. Dorne is nearly 1000 miles long. Ships are clearly going to relay information to KL and other places along the narrow sea. Varys doesn't control the pigeons, Pycelle does. He's a Lannister toadie who wants them to stay in power. JonCon was terrified of landing in the SL because:

Only a few years ago, he would never have dared attempt a landing on Cape Wrath; the storm lords were too fiercely loyal to House Baratheon and to King Robert. But with both Robert and his brother Renly slain, everything was changed.

So at least the storm lords would be willing to block the Boneway and the Prince's Pass. Now if you want to argue the Reach does nothing, sure why not. You still have the SL, the crownlands, RLs and the Westerlands mustering to get their men to the passes.'

I'm not even getting into the actual strategy laid out.

[WSmith84]

29 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Land them in dorne with golden company where they recieve friendly welcome and the locals will be able to provide enough water to handle the logistical nightmare.

Semd screamers out to pillage and send ravens to demand each kingdom come out and fight or slowly starve when we keep burning  their crops to the ground..wel meet  them in the reach where either 

A) have dothraki form up then use mobility to surround vast  westerosi host just out of arrow range ....use speed to surround the slower armoured force  but not engage

 

If heavy cavalry charges circle spread and allow through  (but close to keep infantey there)  and have the knights that have escaped the blockade  led further and further out from battlefield  ,harassed and broken up ...slowly picked apart..superior horsemanship ,numbers and the knights unease at dealing with such  'cowardly' tactics will ensure they will turn from a packed heavy force to confused individuals strung out and seperated over miles....then killed piecemeal.

The rest will can choose surrender,death of thirst , break up and be cut to ribbons or staying in formation and attempt to move in those formation for hundreds of miles on foot while under constant attack! 

Have plenty of men assigned to bring fresh arrows,

Or  when the knights charge my golden company elphants meet them and crush them...the sheerr bulk and horrses fear of elphant smell and sound  means the cavalry charge will be broken  ..the rest can be finished off easy now their cavalry is dead or fleeing. 

Who's feeding all these horses the Dothraki have? Oh, that's right, the Dornish. I'm sure they'd be really happy to use their famously fertile land to feed a bunch of foreign savages. The Dothraki would starve their own allies before they could starve anyone else. There's a reason they are a nomadic people who travel across huge plains. Even a regular army eats the countryside bare if they stay too long, and they're only about a quarter cavalry.

This is all assuming everybody fails to notice the enormous fleet being built and bought and that Robert doesn't simply order his naval commanders (like Stannis) to smash them as they cross which, considering the Dothraki fear of the sea and complete lack of sailing experience, would be an absolute slaughter. Yeah yeah, Varys is spymaster etc. but nobody can miss the fact that someone is setting sail with what must be hundreds or thousands of ships from Essos. There's no way to keep that information secret and, if Varys hopes to be any use to the Targaryens as a spy or whatnot, he would have to tell Robert this or Robert would ask how he failed to notice it and Varys would find himself without a head.

And of course, if anything happened to Drogo (say, he takes an arrow wound during a skirmish and dies of infection) the Targaryen-Dothraki alliance is off. A Khalasar follows its Khal, and when he dies they follow someone else; that someone else will not be married to a Targaryen and will not likely give a damn about the Targaryens. So now the Targs would have a bunch of Dothraki running around raping, pillaging and enslaving their own allies.

[snow is the man]

On 5/28/2017 at 10:51 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

As soon as Drogo dies the Dothraki would split up and end up going South raping and pillaging the Reach and Dorne. Khal Drogo would never fall into command he'd challenge the Golden Company leader to singles combat for control. He'd want nothing less then complete control and complete victory in his name. He is a decorated warlord after all. Ego is everything to Dothraki.

Without armor or a horse two handed Jamie Lannister would make short work of Drogo. Armor is just too important in a one on one fight and Jamie is just too good.

Yeah and the dothraki aren't exactly disciplined if I remember right. Also the way they fight is stupid because pikeman and archers would completly shatter them. The lack of armor would destroy them as well. The sword's they use are completly useless against most types of armor they wear in westero's . Jaime lannister in armor would be worth three khal drogo's without armor and with the dothraki swords.

[devilish]

A-    There’s no need to hurry things. Drogo’s raids in Essos will intensify which will help him build his reputation even further. Other Dothraki Lords will join him while Essosi Lords will be throwing money at him to leave them alone. That money will be needed to recruit  mercenaries which will in turn boost the Dothraki army further. The Dothraki don’t work well with non Dothraki but they seem to respect the the Unsullied. A 10k Unsullied army will help the Targs a great deal
B-    The last time Viserys met with the GC commander he was laughed at. This time round he must be taken seriously. The GC will join the Dothraki Horde + the Unsullied to war. That’s a 20k army boost to a 40k army of screamers. 
C-    Promise Illyrio Mopatis an LP role (Westerlands?) and the role of HOTK once the war is won in exchange of his full support. King Viserys will be extremely grateful towards anyone who will help Illyrio achieve his goals. The magister will be sent to Westeros to seal deals with Dorran Martell (he’ll get Tywin’s and the Clegane’s heads on a silver platter but that is all) and the Tyrells
D-    When preparations of war are completed, Varys will leak information about Joffrey’s parents to Ned. The honourable fool will push Robert to a civil war against the Lannisters. The twins will be arrested and executed forcing Tywin to declare war against the crown. Meanwhile Varys will use this opportunity to poison Robert. Chaos will reign across Winterfell with Ned declaring for Stannis, the Lannisters burning the Riverlands to the ground and Renly fighting for his survival. 
E-     Land Viserys army in Dorne with Doran’s blessing. Hopefully the Martells can raise another 20k which will bolster Viserys army to 80k (40k Dothraki, 20k from Dorne, 10K Unsullied, 10k GC). Hopefully Illyrio would be able to convince the Tyrells to join the Targeryan side (Margaery will be a great wife for Viserys). 
F-    King Stannis will be caught between two fires (ie Lannisters in the west, Renly + Viserys in the South). The wisest option for Stannis is to deal with the lion in the Riverlands, securing safe passage for the Northern army to the Riverlands. Hopefully Renly would slow Viserys long enough for the crowned stag to deal with him at a later stage. Under such circumstances it would be wise to send a raven to Walder promising him the Riverlands if only he holds the Northern army for long enough for Stannis to be defeated by the lion. Once that war ends, Lord Tarly will move in, defeating the winner and forcing Tywin and Stannis to bend the knee or end up killed. Ned will be forced to either bend the knee or if he’s lucky retreat to Winterfell as his 20k army will be no match against Tarly’s 60k army. 
G-    Meanwhile Drogo moves in the Stormlands were his horde defeats Renly 20k army. That will pave the way to KL for King Viserys 

[hodorisfaclessman]

On 2017-6-23 at 0:17 AM, Universal Sword Donor said:

I mean we're talking hundreds of ships coming out of the Free Cities and landing in Dorne, where there is little usable harbor. Let's skip over the docking and landing issue. Dorne is nearly 1000 miles long. Ships are clearly going to relay information to KL and other places along the narrow sea. Varys doesn't control the pigeons, Pycelle does. He's a Lannister toadie who wants them to stay in power. JonCon was terrified of landing in the SL because:

Only a few years ago, he would never have dared attempt a landing on Cape Wrath; the storm lords were too fiercely loyal to House Baratheon and to King Robert. But with both Robert and his brother Renly slain, everything was changed.

So at least the storm lords would be willing to block the Boneway and the Prince's Pass. Now if you want to argue the Reach does nothing, sure why not. You still have the SL, the crownlands, RLs and the Westerlands mustering to get their men to the passes.'

I'm not even getting into the actual strategy laid out.

Theres a harbour large enough to have taken a force large enough to invade dorne at one point plus westerosi seas arent as busy as modern shipping lanes (even then ships can often go without seeing other ships the whole voyage)

On the chance the fleet is spotted at this stage varys not pycelle controls intel at the iron throne

 

The passes can be secured if you know youve dothraki force to pour out of them soon dorne will secure a bridgehead before the fleet even arrives plus the reachs loyalty to robert  is questionable esp with gcs 'friends there' 

[hodorisfaclessman]

On 2017-6-23 at 0:18 AM, WSmith84 said:

Who's feeding all these horses the Dothraki have? Oh, that's right, the Dornish. I'm sure they'd be really happy to use their famously fertile land to feed a bunch of foreign savages. The Dothraki would starve their own allies before they could starve anyone else. There's a reason they are a nomadic people who travel across huge plains. Even a regular army eats the countryside bare if they stay too long, and they're only about a quarter cavalry.

This is all assuming everybody fails to notice the enormous fleet being built and bought and that Robert doesn't simply order his naval commanders (like Stannis) to smash them as they cross which, considering the Dothraki fear of the sea and complete lack of sailing experience, would be an absolute slaughter. Yeah yeah, Varys is spymaster etc. but nobody can miss the fact that someone is setting sail with what must be hundreds or thousands of ships from Essos. There's no way to keep that information secret and, if Varys hopes to be any use to the Targaryens as a spy or whatnot, he would have to tell Robert this or Robert would ask how he failed to notice it and Varys would find himself without a head.

And of course, if anything happened to Drogo (say, he takes an arrow wound during a skirmish and dies of infection) the Targaryen-Dothraki alliance is off. A Khalasar follows its Khal, and when he dies they follow someone else; that someone else will not be married to a Targaryen and will not likely give a damn about the Targaryens. So now the Targs would have a bunch of Dothraki running around raping, pillaging and enslaving their own allies.

Jeez man its not all desert the dornish have food to provide  ..not for months on end no but they wont all be there that long 

 

 

Enormous fleet being built? Nope plenty of commerical vessels in free cities plus varys sits beside robert at this stage

The only pereone whos an x factor who might be able to inform robert is littlefinger...and hes far more likely to sit back and watch for oppertunities to advance

 

If he takes an arrow yes ..if! 

[Coolbeard the Exile]

They would need a very large navy to stop Stannis the Mannis and the Royal fleet.