Frey Kings Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Were the Others/WW mocking the first humans that came through the arm of Dorne on horses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I'm sorry, I don't follow... can you elaborate a bit more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 54 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I'm sorry, I don't follow... can you elaborate a bit more? "The First Men came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses....the First Men came to Westeros from Essos by crossing the land bridge called the Arm of Dorne. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 45 minutes ago, StraightFromAsshai said: "The First Men came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses....the First Men came to Westeros from Essos by crossing the land bridge called the Arm of Dorne. " Yes. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, StraightFromAsshai said: Were the Others/WW mocking the first humans that came through the arm of Dorne on horses? I think it's more of an implication that all the men have risen as wights and walked off, while the horses have not. But this leads to a rather interesting paradox. First, we have never seen a walker actually raising a human wight or controlling one in any way -- not in the prologue with Ser Waymar, not with Otho and Yarwick, the fist, Sam's encounters. All we have is the walker that approached Sam and Grenn on the dead horse, but it's not as if that horse was being directed or controlled any differently than a normal, living horse, nor did it have any mindless compulsion to kill the living. So its interesting that the human wights rose at the fist, but not the horses, and then later we see the only example of a walker with an undead creature: a horse. And is it just me or does the description of that horse match the one that Jon sees at the fist? So that leads to the question, are the walkers really raising the wights? And if not, who is? Might there be a political schism in walker society where one warlord is using some power to reanimate humans, while others are in opposition and maintaining some older custom of only raising animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I doubt the White Walkers would deliberately leave horse carcasses as a symbolic gesture to mock the heritage of humans. Seems too subtle and literary for anyone in-world to catch the gist of it. The contrast of the "unquickened" horse carcasses at the Fist with the wighted horse encountered by Sam does seem significant, however. It might tell us is that garrons are immune to the quickening, while destriers and other breeds are not. I'm not sure why that would be, although the "gar-" syllable piques my interest - Gared was the sole survivor of the AGoT preface, and I think I see ties between Gared and Garin, the original Shrouded Lord. If you follow @voice's miasma theory, it makes sense that some people or animals might have an immunity or natural resistance to becoming wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, StraightFromAsshai said: "The First Men came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses....the First Men came to Westeros from Essos by crossing the land bridge called the Arm of Dorne. " Mance and Jon didn't cross the Arm of Dorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 6 hours ago, John Suburbs said: I think it's more of an implication that all the men have risen as wights and walked off, while the horses have not. But this leads to a rather interesting paradox. First, we have never seen a walker actually raising a human wight or controlling one in any way -- not in the prologue with Ser Waymar, not with Otho and Yarwick, the fist, Sam's encounters. All we have is the walker that approached Sam and Grenn on the dead horse, but it's not as if that horse was being directed or controlled any differently than a normal, living horse, nor did it have any mindless compulsion to kill the living. So its interesting that the human wights rose at the fist, but not the horses, and then later we see the only example of a walker with an undead creature: a horse. And is it just me or does the description of that horse match the one that Jon sees at the fist? So that leads to the question, are the walkers really raising the wights? And if not, who is? Might there be a political schism in walker society where one warlord is using some power to reanimate humans, while others are in opposition and maintaining some older custom of only raising animals? Also don't forget that the NW kept dead bodies in Ice Cells to see if they would turn into wights. Maybe some WWs are Greenseers -Wargs that can go a step further and able to enter the minds of dead beings.... Maybe death is just another state of conscientiousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Seams said: I doubt the White Walkers would deliberately leave horse carcasses as a symbolic gesture to mock the heritage of humans. Seems too subtle and literary for anyone in-world to catch the gist of it. The contrast of the "unquickened" horse carcasses at the Fist with the wighted horse encountered by Sam does seem significant, however. It might tell us is that garrons are immune to the quickening, while destriers and other breeds are not. I'm not sure why that would be, although the "gar-" syllable piques my interest - Gared was the sole survivor of the AGoT preface, and I think I see ties between Gared and Garin, the original Shrouded Lord. If you follow @voice's miasma theory, it makes sense that some people or animals might have an immunity or natural resistance to becoming wights. Are horses even native to Westeros? I also thought it was like a middle-finger, a message, symbolic XYZ to send to men that this was our land as well. Since they defeated the NW and left the dead horse carcasses behind for others to see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said: Mance and Jon didn't cross the Arm of Dorne My mistake, I thought they were 12,000+ years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Yes. And? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Just now, StraightFromAsshai said: ??? Well, so what? Yes, the First Men came on horses, and yes, there were dead horses at the FotFM. But to extrapolate from those facts that the WW were trying to mock humanity is a bit much of an extrapolation, innit? At least on its own, like you presented it. Since I had already asked for you to elaborate on your idea before and all you gave me as reply was a quote about there being dead horses at the Fist, my "and?" simply meant that the quote you provided doesn't really do anything to further the idea you proposed. And that I'm still waiting... I'll help: - what made you consider this as a possibility? - are there any type of hints in the text to support it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 11 hours ago, StraightFromAsshai said: Were the Others/WW mocking the first humans that came through the arm of Dorne on horses? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 I think it was more of a fu** you look what we did then anything specific. Or it might be they just killed them and left the horses behind so they could pursue the survivors. I think that the men corpses jon brought to the wall couldn't turn because the wall stops it. The first dead man we see who attack mormont were already turned just waiting to come back and did that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 On 5/28/2017 at 11:10 AM, John Suburbs said: I think it's more of an implication that all the men have risen as wights and walked off, while the horses have not. But this leads to a rather interesting paradox. First, we have never seen a walker actually raising a human wight or controlling one in any way -- not in the prologue with Ser Waymar, not with Otho and Yarwick, the fist, Sam's encounters. All we have is the walker that approached Sam and Grenn on the dead horse, but it's not as if that horse was being directed or controlled any differently than a normal, living horse, nor did it have any mindless compulsion to kill the living. So its interesting that the human wights rose at the fist, but not the horses, and then later we see the only example of a walker with an undead creature: a horse. And is it just me or does the description of that horse match the one that Jon sees at the fist? So that leads to the question, are the walkers really raising the wights? And if not, who is? Might there be a political schism in walker society where one warlord is using some power to reanimate humans, while others are in opposition and maintaining some older custom of only raising animals? ^^ THIS!!! IDK if the Others have the power to control wights or just animal wights, but I am fairly certain that at least the weirnet has the power to reanimate human wights, because I am fairly certain that the attack on LC Mormont/Jon by the corpses of Jafer Flowers and Othor was a false flag operation. See: the link in my signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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