So, Cersei...

[Knight of the Red Tree]

Re-reading AGoT right now because I felt like it. Cersei offers herself to Eddard quite easely when he confrots her with the truth. We all know what she wanted, of course, but it caught my attention that she commented how both her brother and Eddard's wife were outta town, so why not, right?

Now take that and add the fact that she was quick to bring a cousin to her bed (now that's a girl who truly shows love to her family) because her lover-brother was jailed. Plus that she slept with other men as an bargaining tool.

So... It is pretty likely that she was always like that. Cersei likely would've had other lovers before.

Despite the incestuous stuff, Cersei is pretty promiscuous and is really ironic that Jaime had no idea about it. He had no idea that Robert wasn't the only cuck.

And all that without even mentioning that she had the hots for Rhaegar also. Would her ideal scenario be that she was married to Rhaeger, Jaime would be his kingsguard and she could enjoy the best of both worlds?

This is a whole new level of fucked up.

[Foot_Of_The_King]

And Moonboy.....

[elder brother jonothor dar]

"Yes, but don't let that trouble you. You're still half a child. Every man's a piece to start with, and every maid as well. Even some who think they are players." He ate another seed. "Cersei, for one. She thinks herself sly, but in truth she is utterly predictable. Her strength rests on her beauty, birth, and riches. Only the first of those is truly herown, and it will soon desert her. I pity her then. She wants power, but has no notion what to do with it when she gets it

Tears are not a woman’s only weapon. You’ve got another one between your legs, and you’d best learn to use it. You’ll find men use their swords freely enough. Both kinds of swords.”

 

When birth and riches do not work Cersei turns quickly towards her beauty, and has no inhibitions fucking someone to get what she wants, she took satisfaction in the fact Robert wanted to fuck her even though they hated each other it was important to her ego/self esteem he still desired her, like LF says she likes power but had no idea what to do with it as long as she can manipulate people she is happy; lions do not cry which leaves her with 1 woman's weapon left

[zandru]

It's funny that Cersei constantly wishes she had a cock so she coujld be the great warrior / lord / politically powerful person, yet she's done basically nothing to actually work towards that goal. Does she do any physical training, learn to wield a sword, high performance riding? No. Although as a Lannister and later Queen she would have been able to command those lessons, and keep them secret if need be.

Does she do any particular study of state craft, war craft, or anything? Not that we have seen, and not that she ever refers to. Note that when she's in charge after Robert's death, simple basic things like seeing to the civilian population of King's Landing (making sure they can get food, are protected, etc) are not even on her radar. It's Tyrion, who apparently DID learn from Tywin, who does whatever he can. And also, HE reads.

Instead, Cersei enjoys a lazy entitlement, privileged by her wealthy family and position. She was "Born on 3rd base, and thinks she hit a triple", as the saying goes. Simultaneously envying men and hating them, she shamelessly takes advantage of all those "pink worms" that she covets so much, to achieve her goals. Simultaneously worshipping her own attractive body and its effect on those weak men, she hates other women. While decrying her husband's sleeping around, she does it, too.

Book Cersei has been growing older and her once-magnificent physique deteriorating, under the influence of the years, sedentary living, and too much wine. But she doesn't acknowledge this, preferring to get increasingly strong handmaids to lace her into her foundation garments, and penalizing the washerwomen for "shrinking" her gowns. And -- trying to track down and neutralize that "younger, more beautiful" queen who will dethrone her.

Where's a valonquar when you need one?

[Traverys]

2 hours ago, zandru said:

It's funny that Cersei constantly wishes she had a cock so she coujld be the great warrior / lord / politically powerful person, yet she's done basically nothing to actually work towards that goal. Does she do any physical training, learn to wield a sword, high performance riding? No. Although as a Lannister and later Queen she would have been able to command those lessons, and keep them secret if need be.

Does she do any particular study of state craft, war craft, or anything? Not that we have seen, and not that she ever refers to. Note that when she's in charge after Robert's death, simple basic things like seeing to the civilian population of King's Landing (making sure they can get food, are protected, etc) are not even on her radar. It's Tyrion, who apparently DID learn from Tywin, who does whatever he can. And also, HE reads.

She isn't the only highborn in power (or highborn feeling false entitlement to power) that is guilty of this. The whole system is built to favor rank instead of personal merit... and then these falsely entitled people refuse all good counsel offered to them by those more capable.

Cersei is just another example of the faults in such a system, and how the system failed to prepare her due to her gender. That isn't suggesting she would have been an astute student if provided the opportunity, but we'll never know. It's doubtful that her Septa would have let her stray too far from her needlework to study grand strategy with a maester. And teaching her to wield a sword would seem absurd to the realm at large not to mention it would risk her beauty, which is her second most important important quality in terms of brokering a marriage (the first being her family name). There are certain characters across the Narrow Sea that are free from the Westerosi patriarchy that also choose to forsake any formal training in these "manly" arts.

What I think is silliest about Cersei is how she acts like if she suddenly grew man-parts and was handed a sword she'd immediatly have all his skill. It's gravely narcissistic.

[foxberlin]

15 hours ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

Would her ideal scenario be that she was married to Rhaeger, Jaime would be his kingsguard and she could enjoy the best of both worlds?

I'm not even sure, if Cersei ever enjoyed sex for what it is.

[Knight of the Red Tree]

13 hours ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

And Moonboy.....

Moonboy surely tapped that.

47 minutes ago, zandru said:

While decrying her husband's sleeping around, she does it, too.

Yup.

47 minutes ago, zandru said:

It's funny that Cersei constantly wishes she had a cock so she coujld be the great warrior / lord / politically powerful person, yet she's done basically nothing to actually work towards that goal. Does she do any physical training, learn to wield a sword, high performance riding? No. Although as a Lannister and later Queen she would have been able to command those lessons, and keep them secret if need be.

That "if I were you (if)" stuff is always hot air. It's something petty people say because it's easy and they're protected from having to show it. It's like in Seiken Densetsu 3 (sometimes called Secret of Mana 2) in which, after an city has been invaded by an army of werewolves called the beastmen, one of the town npcs, an old man, if talked to says something like: "If I was twenty/thirty/whatever years old, I'd throw all these beastmen out of town! Well... If." Yeah, right.

If I had Rocky Marciano's strenght, skill, technique, endurance, courage AND weight I could be an professional heavyweight boxer. It's an empty declaration.

But anyways, do you guys think Cersei had multiple lovers other than Jaime before AGoT?

[Knight of the Red Tree]

9 minutes ago, foxberlin said:

I'm not even sure, if Cersei ever enjoyed sex for what it is.

I'd wager the opposite. That using her body as an bargaining tool, using it to wield power over men and manipulating then was in itself an erotic stimulation.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

18 minutes ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

But anyways, do you guys think Cersei had multiple lovers other than Jaime before AGoT?

There is no way she goes back to Casterly Rock in the time leading up to and during Robert's Rebellion with Jaime stuck in King's Landing and doesn't find a cousin to take care of her needs - physical and otherwise.

[Bernie Mac]

17 minutes ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

I'd wager the opposite. That using her body as an bargaining tool, using it to wield power over men and manipulating then was in itself an erotic stimulation.

Really? Her thought of sex with other men rarely seem to arouse her. She sees sex as one of the few weapons she has at her disposal to have men do what she wants. 

 

I kind of doubt she was promiscuous during her marriage. Spending all that time with her brother does not raise suspicion. Spending time with others would do. 

 

[Knight of the Red Tree]

This will be an interesting thing to analyse when I'm re-reading the later books.

[Traverys]

2 hours ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

Moonboy surely tapped that.

Yup.

That "if I were you (if)" stuff is always hot air. It's something petty people say because it's easy and they're protected from having to show it. It's like in Seiken Densetsu 3 (sometimes called Secret of Mana 2) in which, after an city has been invaded by an army of werewolves called the beastmen, one of the town npcs, an old man, if talked to says something like: "If I was twenty/thirty/whatever years old, I'd throw all these beastmen out of town! Well... If." Yeah, right.

If I had Rocky Marciano's strenght, skill, technique, endurance, courage AND weight I could be an professional heavyweight boxer. It's an empty declaration.

But anyways, do you guys think Cersei had multiple lovers other than Jaime before AGoT?

Oh man, that's a game that I need to replay ASAP.  Did they ever officially translate it?

2 hours ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

I'd wager the opposite. That using her body as an bargaining tool, using it to wield power over men and manipulating then was in itself an erotic stimulation.

I could agree with that. For Cersei, the men don't provide the erotic stimulation, but rather the fact that she's using them is what she enjoys. She tried exerting power sexually in a different way with Lady Taena and that turned out to be less than satisfying. My hypothesis on that would be because forcing herself on Taena doesn't in any way affirm her beauty (and thus her primary asset). So, in true Cersei fashion, even sex is all about her and her own ego.

 

[Knight of the Red Tree]

2 hours ago, Traverys said:

Oh man, that's a game that I need to replay ASAP.  Did they ever officially translate it?

4 hours ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

Never gonna happen, man.

2 hours ago, Traverys said:

I could agree with that. For Cersei, the men don't provide the erotic stimulation, but rather the fact that she's using them is what she enjoys. She tried exerting power sexually in a different way with Lady Taena and that turned out to be less than satisfying. My hypothesis on that would be because forcing herself on Taena doesn't in any way affirm her beauty (and thus her primary asset). So, in true Cersei fashion, even sex is all about her and her own ego.

Didn't even remember her. Another notch.

...

I can see your point, but I'd say most of the reason she doesn't care as mush would be simply that she biologically liked men better, really.

Anyway Cersei is quick to bed people.

[zandru]

3 hours ago, Traverys said:

I could agree with that. For Cersei, the men don't provide the erotic stimulation, but rather the fact that she's using them is what she enjoys. She tried exerting power sexually in a different way with Lady Taena and that turned out to be less than satisfying. My hypothesis on that would be because forcing herself on Taena doesn't in any way affirm her beauty (and thus her primary asset). So, in true Cersei fashion, even sex is all about her and her own ego.

Good catch! Cersei often tells her male bedmates how much she's lovin' it, but she means it as much as a 1 copper 'ho does. What she actually loves is the feeling that she's controlling/shaming them. And that the men are powerless before her. Then she kicks them out when their usefulness is spent.

[Traverys]

2 hours ago, Knight of the Red Tree said:

Never gonna happen, man.

Didn't even remember her. Another notch.

...

I can see your point, but I'd say most of the reason she doesn't care as mush would be simply that she biologically liked men better, really.

Anyway Cersei is quick to bed people.

Who can forget the myrish swamp!

I don't know if I would say Cersei has always been open to sexual encounters. Her relationship with Jaime has, for me, reinforced the idea that the only person good enough for her is another Lannister... especially fraternal twin whose gender and freedom she envies. People equate her using her sexuality as a tool from ACoK (according to Varys) on as something she has always done. When people occasionally ask how Cersei was able to get Jaime appointed as a kingsguard they often conclude she slept with Aerys II... I'll just say that this is one of the strangest notions ever, given his hygenic and appearance during her time at the Red Keep.

She probably went to Robert's bed willingly on their wedding night, but whispering "Lyanna" killed any chance of her ever doing that again. I would say that while she may have genuinely enjoyed being intimate with her brother, she was also likely smugly satisfied by cuckolding Robert right under his nose. She has that thought about how she would swallow his uh... seed and saw it as symbolically devouring his children.

She later turns to Lancel when Jaime leaves the capital, though whether this was for personal pleasure, exerting power, or manipulating him into killing Robert (or all 3!)... we can only speculate. It's significant that Tyrion notes he resembles a poor man's Jaime when he was Lancel's age, so that would further the idea that she was indeed sexually attracted to her brother.

Then the Kettlebacks come into the picture (and Moonboy! ) and she secures the loyalty of one brother by making subtle promises of sexual encounters (according to Varys). She follows through a couple of times, I believe, but it's likely that same result of smug satisfaction knowing she's manipulated a man into "thinking with the wrong head." Wouldn't be surprised if it was also a personal affirmation because she is aging, and her walk of shame has her confront that time has taken its toll on her personal appearance.

And like someone else pointed out, when Tywin resigned as hand and took her back to Casterly Rock (separating her from Jaime), it would not be surprising at all to find out she found a cousin or two that resembled Jaime set aside for pleasure. With that said, I don't think it's fair to basically compare her to Amerei Frey, whose sexual proclivities has gained her the nickname Gatehouse Ami.

If the partner isn't a Lannister, I think it's safe to assume she's using sex as a tool.