Magic Mushrooms and Dark Betrayals

[Seams]

From a wordplay perspective, three possibilities:

The Last Hero = The Salt Hero?

sellsword = sel sword? The French word for salt.

NaCl is the formula for sodium chloride. The mountain "clans" might be wordplay on NaCl, although I realize this is probably a stretch.

From a geography perspective, the Saltpans might be a strategic location for, essentially, manufacturing weapons - producing salt to fight the invading fungus. Maybe the vicious attack on the Saltpans shows us who is on the side of the blood fungus, trying to wipe out salt production. Except there is so much switching of helmets, spreading of rumors and other obfuscation that it's not clear who perpetrated that attack.

When Arya is briefly called Salty, the sailors give her some gifts - a floppy hat, fingerless gloves and a silver fork. Gifts are important in ASOIAF, so these probably have important underlying meaning. Floppy hats are associated with Aegon V (The Unlikely) Targaryen, during his Egg phase. I'm just starting to try to understand gloves, so I'm not sure about those. My best guess for the silver fork is that it symbolizes a weapon, probably like Meera Reed's trident, and might symbolize the Trident River itself. How these all connect with salt, I'm not sure.

 

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

On 5/29/2017 at 9:56 PM, GyantSpyder said:

Weirwoods all have their bark ritualistically cut by the worshipers of the Old Gods - It might make sense for the fungus to encourage this practice so that it can get through the bark and spread to more weirwoods. This would refer to a mechanism that both goes through the roots and the bark, and I don't have that sorted out yet. This would also explain why people plant heart trees inside their castles - to further allow and encourage the fungus to spread and thrive where it can continue to influence people's minds.

1

That is a very interesting idea.  I love this essay by the way.  I'm following.  This assertion made me think of Carl Sagan's Cosmos series and unintentional artificial selection.  The Heikegani, or Samurai crabs, were featured as an example.  Their carapaces resemble the angry faces of samurai and were thought possess the souls of dead warriors; therefore, crab fisherman threw back the crabs that most resembled samurai faces encouraging those traits to reproduce.  I could see that weirwood trees with the most appealing traits to humans and COTF tend to get planted more and carved more over a long period of time.  Like the brightest red or most blood-like sap would be preferred, whether it's the fungus causing it or the weirwood itself to encourage more infiltration of the fungus.  As a by-product, it also evolved to influence minds to encourage more planting and carving.  

This also reminded me of the species of fungus that is actually dubbed the mind-controlling "zombie fungus":  Ophiocordyceps unilateralis.  Just to summarize, in its spore stage, it can break through the exoskeleton of carpenter ants that live in the canopy of Brazilian and Thai rainforests.  In the yeast stage, it causes the ant to convulse and fall to the forest floor.  Then it "mind controls" the ant to climb a plant stem to a height that has an ideal humidity and temperature for reproduction.  The ant's mandibles will then bite down with "unusual" force on a leaf vein in a lockjaw effect to secure it to the leaf.  The ant has lost all motor control and will atrophy over a period of 7 to 10 days.  The fungus simultaneously invades the soft tissues and produces antimicrobials to ward off competition.  A spore stalk will emerge from the ant's head and more spores will burst forth to infect more ants.  The fungus could potentially wipe out a whole colony, but some ants have evolved the ability to sense an infected ant.  The healthy ants will carry the infected ones far from the colony to avoid spore exposure.  I wonder if this is a loose inspiration for the wighting process or that your fungi theory extends to wights as well?  If someone already caught this possibility, kudos to you and I'm sorry I missed the post.               

[White Ravens]

On 5/31/2017 at 0:23 PM, GyantSpyder said:

And you know what's made of salt water? The Wall!

Quote

 

Hodor ducked, but not low enough. The door's upper lip brushed softly against the top of Bran's head, and a drop of water fell on him and ran slowly down his nose. It was strangely warm, and salty as a tear.

Bran IV, ASOS

 

 

I'm not sure that this is strong enough evidence to determine that the wall is made of salt water.  To me it just suggests that the weirwood gate itself is salty, perhaps as a way to support the notion that the Black Gate is a living thing.  I would also point out that salt water resists freezing so that complicates the idea that the wall is salty. 

 

But if you are right I agree that it may suggest that a salty Wall may help deter the others from crossing it and I like the observation that the salty ocean would help discourage them from going around it. 

As for the notion that salt kills mushrooms any research I tried to do (ie:  quick google search) suggests that it kills everything else along with the mushrooms.  Which is what the "sow the ground with salt" thing was about when Bloodraven had Whitewalls torn down. 

[Voice]

On 5/31/2017 at 11:18 AM, ravenous reader said:

According to @Voice's 'miasma theory,' if I've understood it correctly following only a cursory reading (sorry Voice ), from a certain perspective human beings may be the planet's toxic/infective agent, the bacteria analogue as it were, against which the trees' immune system (the symbiotic fungus?) has mobilized a defense, constituted by the Others who are analogous to the antidote or antibiotic.  

 

Not a bad synopsis at all!

Here's the miasma theory, if anyone's interested.

 

[Voice]

(going back to read the OP now... looks fascinating!)

 

Regarding the influence of psychoactive fungi/parasites, I must also mention this thread.

[Unchained]

On 5/31/2017 at 3:28 PM, Pain killer Jane said:

Another animal that is of interest as well @GyantSpyder leeches are killed by salt. And we do have a very prominent lord who is known as the Leech Lord, Roose Bolton. 

There is another aquatic parasite worth noting.  

Quote

"Manderly?" Mors Umber snorted. "That great waddling sack of suet? His own people mock him as Lord Lamprey, I've heard. The man can scarce walk. If you stuck a sword in his belly, ten thousand eels would wriggle out."

Lord Lamprey and House Leech both are parasites of house Hornwood.  Those are sea/see parasites infecting a tree.  Lampreys, unlike leeches, do not fear salt.  They live in fresh and salt water.  Some act like salmon and spawn in a river then go out to sea.  They are common in coastal areas.  I think that makes it fair to say they live in brackish water.  This further connects the Manderlys to lampreys because the Manderlys also are tied to river mouths that drain into the sea.  

 

This is a stretch I know, but House Bracken poisoned House Blackwood's weirwood tree.  The Dothraki who are scared of salt water are a parasitic culture.  Even the possibly salt purifying Ironborn who fight the proposed tree parasites are a parasitic culture.  

 

@GyantSpyder,

 

By the way, I love this thread.  @LmL and his shadowy mushroom (information) dealer have had a monopoly on fungi long enough haha.  

 

   

 

 

[Pain killer Jane]

11 hours ago, Unchained said:

On 5/31/2017 at 1:28 PM, Pain killer Jane said:

Another animal that is of interest as well @GyantSpyder leeches are killed by salt. And we do have a very prominent lord who is known as the Leech Lord, Roose Bolton. 

There is another aquatic parasite worth noting.  

Quote

"Manderly?" Mors Umber snorted. "That great waddling sack of suet? His own people mock him as Lord Lamprey, I've heard. The man can scarce walk. If you stuck a sword in his belly, ten thousand eels would wriggle out."

Lord Lamprey and House Leech both are parasites of house Hornwood.  Those are sea/see parasites infecting a tree.  Lampreys, unlike leeches, do not fear salt.  They live in fresh and salt water.  Some act like salmon and spawn in a river then go out to sea.  They are common in coastal areas.  I think that makes it fair to say they live in brackish water.  This further connects the Manderlys to lampreys because the Manderlys also are tied to river mouths that drain into the sea

You know the connection of House Manderly and House Bolton makes sense if you consider that the Lamprey is alluding to shipworms that eat dead drowned wood. Shipworms are a type of clam and Lord Lamprey is too fat to sit a horse so he has to carried around in a litter/palanquin like the God-on-Earth inside his pearl which pearls are the children of clams. 

Nice catch!

11 hours ago, Unchained said:

This is a stretch I know, but House Bracken poisoned House Blackwood's weirwood tree.  

The Blackwoods do claim this is the case but unfortunately we don't have the evidence and neither do the Blackwoods. I think the secret to the dead heart tree of the Blackwoods' lies with House Arryn having a godswood but no heart tree and a sept but no septon and the silence, Alayne notes in Feast. 

[edd tollett:(]

So the Old Gods are the Fendi! Makes sense

[GyantSpyder]

On Invalid Date at 3:13 PM, edd tollett:( said:

So the Old Gods are the Fendi! Makes sense

Remind me - what are the Hrangans and the Fyndii like?

I've read a lot of the thousand worlds stories, but my sense is that the hrangans have never actually showed up directly, only their slave races. I seem to remember the Fyndii showed up somewhere and we might have actually seen what they look like. Here's a passage from And Seven Times Never Kill Man, which features the mythology of Bakkalon the Pale Child, who shows up in ASOIAF presumably as an Easter Egg, since we're assuming the story doesn't actually take place in the Thousand Worlds universe.

But I'll bold the sections that seem relevant to our story if we conjecture that George is pulling details from his old work into this world as well.

And the purpose here is to look for more evidence that the "blood fungus" exists and is affecting the story:

Quote

"In those days much evil had come upon the seed of Earth," the Proctor
read, "for the children of Bakkalon had abandoned Him to bow to softer
gods. So their skies grew dark and upon them from above came the Sons
of Hranga with red eyes and demon teeth, and upon them from below
came the vast Horde of Fyndii like a cloud of locusts that blotted out the
stars. And the worlds flamed, and the children cried out, 'Save us! Save us!'
"And the pale child came and stood before them, with His great sword in His hand,
and in a voice like thunder He rebuked them. 'You have been
weak children,' He told them, 'for you have disobeyed. Where are your
swords? Did I not set swords in your hands?'
"And the children cried out, 'We have beaten them into plowshares, oh
Bakkalon!'
"And He was sore angry. 'With plowshares, then, shall you face the Sons
of Hranga! With plowshares shall you slay the Horde of Fyndii!' And He
left them, and heard no more their weeping, for the Heart of Bakkalon is a
Heart of Fire.
"But then one among the seed of Earth dried his tears, for the skies did
burn so bright that they ran scalding on his cheeks. And the bloodlust rose
in him and he beat his plowshare back into a sword, and charged the Sons
of Hranga, slaying as he went. Then others saw, and followed, and a great
battle-cry rang across the worlds.
"And the pale child heard, and came again, for the sound of battle is
more pleasing to his ears than the sound of wails. And when He saw, He
smiled. 'Now you are my children again,' He said to the seed of Earth. 'For
you had turned against me to worship a god who calls himself a lamb, but
did you not know that lambs go only to the slaughter? Yet now your eyes
have cleared, and again you are the Wolves of God!'
"And Bakkalon gave them all swords again, all His children and all the
seed of Earth, and He lifted his great black blade, the Demon-Reaver that
slays the soulless, and swung it. And the Sons of Hranga fell before His
might, and the great Horde that was the Fyndii burned beneath His gaze.
And the children of Bakkalon swept across the worlds."

So we have the familiar weapons of dark swords that kill the "soulless" - that seems like Varlyrian steel, Dragonsteel, whatever. And we have dark steel and fire, and we have lamb people and wolves, and we have red eyes, and the sky going dark, and the stars going out - all familiar stuff from our story.

But the big thing that interests me here is that on first glance (and I know on first read of the story I didn't see this), the methods for killing the Hrangans and the Fyndii are different. The "Sons of Hranga" from above (who are maybe not even the Hrangan minds, but are their soulless soldiers, perhaps?) are killed by the black swords, but the Fyndii from below are not killed by the blades, they are killed by fire.

Also "With plowshares shall you slay the Horde of Fyndii" seems like it might be a GRRM sort of self in-joke - if the Fyndi are a fungus (and again I don't remember that actually being what they are, I thought they were something different), or use a fungus, that connects the roots of plants and trees underground, then plowshares actually would kill it, by cutting up its connection and by eliminating its habitat of forest and rot through agriculture.

And regardless, the idea of an alien invader who can be killed by literal plowshares rather than with swords, even has figuratively "beaten their swords into plowshares", seems like exactly the sort of thing GRRM might sneak into a story. 

Now, for some reason I had associated all this with the Hrangan Minds more than the Fyndii, maybe because the Hrangan Minds are supposed to be sleeping underground on various planets waiting to come back and destroy humanity. It had made more sense for them to be the fungus.

But if somebody who remembers this all better could bring me back up to speed on it I'd appreciate it. The resources for searching the Thousand Worlds stories and references for them are less robust and consolidated.

@Pain killer Jane @Unchained - this is great stuff! I think the Bracken as being the "salty" house and the Blackwoods being the "arboreal fungus" house makes a lot of sense.

One thing I'd add is that in order for any of this to make sense, there has to have been some way that low-tech humanity has managed to survive despite its enemy being insidious, largely invisible, and magically powerful. Yeah, maybe this all goes back to the Great Empire of the Dawn and the Bloodstone Emperor and the Citadel and the Hightowers and the Daynes are the remnants of all that - but looking at guest right and ritual drowning and ritual burning it seems like low-tech humanity - like the Kavalars - developed a bunch of traditions that helped small portions of them survive, and then those traditions became encoded into global culture as those survivors repopulated the world and lost track of exactly what had happened.

I love the idea that the Dothraki are a parasite similar to the fungus - that definitely touches on what seems like throughout the books a pretty strident streak of anti-humanism - or, at the very least, anti-anthrotribalism - or whatever you'd call it - the idea that just because something is human that doesn't mean it's morally better than something that isn't human. It's very interesting in this context that the Khalasars bring the Dosh Khaleen a traditional gift of salt, and Vaes Dothrak is the one place the Dothraki aren't allowed to spill blood.

Could it be that spilling blood is forbidden in Vaes Dothrak to prevent fungus from growing underneath the city? Just a thought.

But anyway - back to the Brackens - one idea I had a long time ago that dovetails with all this is that it's notable that the symbol for the brackens is a horse, and the Brackens are an enemy of the Old Gods, and the symbol of House Ryswell is a black horse with flaming red eyes, and the Ryswells are associated with the undead and the Night's Watch - all very Bloodstone Emperor stuff.

And to bring that idea back - the thought is that horses are broadly seen to be a sort of biological weapon against trees. The science of it is I think not 100% settled, but it's been spoken of as true by scientists enough to be generally thought to be true by milidly scientific people, that grasses live in symbiosis with hooved herd animals like horses, cows and buffalo, because the hooved animals trample trees or eat saplings and brush, which eliminates the grass's competition for sunlight and nutrients, which in turn encourages the grass to grow, which in turn feeds the hooved animals.

Patches of wild brush that horses like to eat are of course another meaning of the word "bracken" - in addition to the association with salt water.

And it is notable that deer and boars are hooved animals that don't prevent trees from growing, but horses and aurochs (like Grenn of the Night's Watch) do.

And if you prevent the trees from growing you deny the purchase of the symbiotic fungus that lives with the trees.

I've long thought the Night's Watch practice of cutting down trees by the wall seems important (and also seems to contradict the traditional stories of their purpose and of the Others and the Children all quite a bit), and their failure to keep up that practice lately seems important, and in the context of everything we're talking about here it all makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, back to horses. The practices of revering horses, riding horses, using them as pack animals all inform human culture in various ways - which is made abundantly clear in the story through the Dothraki.

So what you start to see is a war (or a Double War, maybe part of why this is so tricky to sort out is that humanity is facing two non-human intelligences, similar to a hrangan mind and a fyndii horde, instead of one) that goes from the personal level, to the level of family, to the level of politics of fiefdoms and countries, to battles between civilizations, all the way to battles of culturally influential ecosystems.

One ecosystem is fungus-friendly - trees and godswoods, leaf beds and rot, game meats, more hunting and foraging and not as much agriculture, wolves and wild animals, leeches and snails and fresh water, lower human population kept in check with human sacrifice, nature-friendly, druidic sorts of religious practices that focus on natural connection. Favors darkness and shade and not seeing the sky.

One ecosystem is horse-friendly - fewer trees and more fields of grass, turned soil and plowed fields, grains and dairy, dogs and domesticated animals, ships and shellfish and salt water, high human population, doesn't value nature, humanistic and social sorts of religious practices that focus on family role and obligation, as well as patriarchy. Favors sunlight and open spaces and can see the stars.

There's a lot more evidence to go through before needing to speculate quite so much, but the connection of "Bracken" between shrubbery, horses and salt as opposed to sustained growth of tree fungus was really interesting.

[GyantSpyder]

And as long as we're talking about story elements GRRM might have recycled from the Thousand Worlds universe that have to do with battles between humankind and alien parasites, I always thought the story "Bitterblooms" while ostensibly the story of the girl and her relationship and what she wanted and dreamed for, was from another perspective the story of the unbreakable filaments with the blue flowers on them burrowing into her head and body (she ends up able to pick flowers from her hair years after the events of the story, suggesting that they actually grow from her), using her as a host, and then using her global travels and culture of polyamorous gene pool broadening to spread all over the planet.

And the idea that the flowers are found around a ship leaving Avalon for some broke-ass backwater was a really bad sign for Avalon, which was probably under some sort of global parasitic attack.

And of course if A Song of Ice and Fire is what GRRM worked on after he gave up on writing Avalon, it's possible he's bringing over a bunch of Avalon's ideas.

The presence of blue roses in A Song of Ice and Fire recalled Bitterblooms to me, and the idea that everybody is cool with the idea of blue winter roses as if that's a normal thing in the world, even to the point where as a reader I have to look it up to confirm that, no, in the real world, blue winter roses are not a thing, leads me to think there is something weird going on with the blue roses and Lyanna Stark and all that as well. The idea of a blue "blooming" being the mold in blue cheese which we talked about before seems symbolically connected to all of this. What does it mean for the blue flower growing from the wall exuding sweet smells in Daenerys's visions? What sort of organism is that, really?

After all, in much the same way the people in this world of the story, unlike us, wouldn't have a name for their planet that indicates the existence or knowledge of any other planets, they also would now see it as abnormal if something that is very strange to us is happening in their ecosystems. To them maybe it's not a weird thing for roses to grow in ice. For us that should be a red flag, I think, that some weird or magical biology is in play.

But since it's across works there's not really "evidence" so much as "patterns" that invite further investigation.

Blue eyes and red eyes, blue blooming and red leaves, sapphires and rubies, I wonder if it all speaks to two parasites rather than one.

Maybe the various species of fungus we've all been talking about can be subdivided into different events and phenomena in the story, into two growths, rather than assuming it's one fungus. 

[Seams]

10 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

The presence of blue roses in A Song of Ice and Fire recalled Bitterblooms to me, and the idea that everybody is cool with the idea of blue winter roses as if that's a normal thing in the world, even to the point where as a reader I have to look it up to confirm that, no, in the real world, blue winter roses are not a thing, leads me to think there is something weird going on with the blue roses and Lyanna Stark and all that as well. . . .

. . . To them maybe it's not a weird thing for roses to grow in ice. For us that should be a red flag, I think, that some weird or magical biology is in play.

For what it's worth, the Glastonbury Thorn is a big deal in England, and the legend of its winter blossoms has deep roots in the culture. One of the stories is that the hawthorn tree grew where Joseph of Arimathea (uncle of Jesus Christ) stuck his walking stick into the ground during a visit to what is now England. Sprigs of the winter blossoms are still given to the Queen each year, I read somewhere. (I researched this when I was trying to sort out the winter blossoms in Neil Gaiman's, The Graveyard Book.)

A rose isn't the same thing as a hawthorn tree, but both of them have thorns.

I would add, too, that just because the Glastonbury Thorn and its winter blossoms are real, that doesn't rule out something weird or magical.

[edd tollett:(]

12 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

Remind me - what are the Hrangans and the Fyndii like?

 

I'm still making my way through the thousand world's series. The only story I've read so far involving the Fyndii, was 'men of greywater station'. And the only thing I really remember about the Fyndii inpaticular is that they tricked the humans into killing each other.

Which is most likely the m.o. of the Others and/Or the singer's, if not of some alien Fungi 

Btw, great work and nice to see some fresh ideas. I like your thought on the 'no spilled blood' policy of Vaes Dothrok, you may be on to something. And the potential symbiotic relationship between grass and grazing animals was interesting, I never heard that before but it makes sense 

[ravenous reader]

13 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

And as long as we're talking about story elements GRRM might have recycled from the Thousand Worlds universe that have to do with battles between humankind and alien parasites, I always thought the story "Bitterblooms" while ostensibly the story of the girl and her relationship and what she wanted and dreamed for, was from another perspective the story of the unbreakable filaments with the blue flowers on them burrowing into her head and body (she ends up able to pick flowers from her hair years after the events of the story, suggesting that they actually grow from her), using her as a host, and then using her global travels and culture of polyamorous gene pool broadening to spread all over the planet.

And the idea that the flowers are found around a ship leaving Avalon for some broke-ass backwater was a really bad sign for Avalon, which was probably under some sort of global parasitic attack.

And of course if A Song of Ice and Fire is what GRRM worked on after he gave up on writing Avalon, it's possible he's bringing over a bunch of Avalon's ideas.

The presence of blue roses in A Song of Ice and Fire recalled Bitterblooms to me, and the idea that everybody is cool with the idea of blue winter roses as if that's a normal thing in the world, even to the point where as a reader I have to look it up to confirm that, no, in the real world, blue winter roses are not a thing, leads me to think there is something weird going on with the blue roses and Lyanna Stark and all that as well. The idea of a blue "blooming" being the mold in blue cheese which we talked about before seems symbolically connected to all of this. What does it mean for the blue flower growing from the wall exuding sweet smells in Daenerys's visions? What sort of organism is that, really?

A 'nennymoan'..?

'Under the sea, the merwives wear nennymoans in their hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed.  I know, I know, oh, oh, oh!'

A 'nennymoan' is usually interpreted as being an anemone of either the terrestrial (flower) or marine (carnivorous sea creature) variety.  In terms of the former, there's the symbolism of a poisonous flower with windborne spores; in terms of the latter, poisonous/electric Actinaria in symbiotic relationship with clownfish, perhaps analogous to fungus-greenseer/ weirwood mutualism.

13 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

I love the idea that the Dothraki are a parasite similar to the fungus - that definitely touches on what seems like throughout the books a pretty strident streak of anti-humanism - or, at the very least, anti-anthrotribalism - or whatever you'd call it - the idea that just because something is human that doesn't mean it's morally better than something that isn't human. 

Yes, this is reflected in how the 'Dothraki sea' can refer to either the savannah or the people.

In fact, the Dothraki sea is described as a 'red bloom':

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"The Dothraki sea," Ser Jorah Mormont said as he reined to a halt beside her on the top of the ridge. Beneath them, the plain stretched out immense and empty, a vast flat expanse that reached to the distant horizon and beyond. It was a sea, Dany thought. Past here, there were no hills, no mountains, no trees nor cities nor roads, only the endless grasses, the tall blades rippling like waves when the winds blew. "It's so green," she said.

"Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood. Come the dry season, and the world turns the color of old bronze. And this is only hranna, child. There are a hundred kinds of grass out there, grasses as yellow as lemon and as dark as indigo, blue grasses and orange grasses and grasses like rainbows. Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end."

That thought gave Dany the shivers. "I don't want to talk about that now," she said. "It's so beautiful here, I don't want to think about everything dying."

 

Quote

 

It's very interesting in this context that the Khalasars bring the Dosh Khaleen a traditional gift of salt, and Vaes Dothrak is the one place the Dothraki aren't allowed to spill blood.

Could it be that spilling blood is forbidden in Vaes Dothrak to prevent fungus from growing underneath the city? Just a thought.

That's a great idea!

13 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

Blue eyes and red eyes, blue blooming and red leaves, sapphires and rubies, I wonder if it all speaks to two parasites rather than one.

My instinct says no.  Blue and red are linked, just as deoxygenated venous and oxygenated arterial blood are linked within one circulatory system.

[GyantSpyder]

11 hours ago, Seams said:

For what it's worth, the Glastonbury Thorn is a big deal in England, and the legend of its winter blossoms has deep roots in the culture. One of the stories is that the hawthorn tree grew where Joseph of Arimathea (uncle of Jesus Christ) stuck his walking stick into the ground during a visit to what is now England. Sprigs of the winter blossoms are still given to the Queen each year, I read somewhere. (I researched this when I was trying to sort out the winter blossoms in Neil Gaiman's, The Graveyard Book.)

A rose isn't the same thing as a hawthorn tree, but both of them have thorns.

I would add, too, that just because the Glastonbury Thorn and its winter blossoms are real, that doesn't rule out something weird or magical.

I had not heard of this! Very interesting; thank you very much!!

I looked it up on Wikipedia, and it seems to be a really dead-on direct reference for a lot of things in the books - a sacred tree that gets grafted and transplanted to churchyards - and especially the part where the Puritans cut down and burned the original.