Dejection Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Ah, it is finally time to return to the ASOIAF fan base. Get back in the thick of things, you know. My utter disappointment with the show somehow traumatized me enough to stop frequenting these forums and now it inspires both a feeling of nostalgia and a sense of being overwhelmed by how far ahead everybody here will be with regard to having the basics and the complexities on their fingertips as compared to me. So, is the Wiki of Ice and Fire a reliable source to basically catch up with things? I want so badly to get into ASOIAF, even though I never truly stopped thinking about it longingly, and would like to know if I could use the Wiki to catch up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I'd say so, yes. I tend to use it to have some stuff together on a place or person, check the references and then do "a search of ice and fire" to fetch the quotes, or pick up the book itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejection Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Well alright, just asking because I was looking through the Wiki of some characters and it seemed poorly worded/even some bad grammar. I wonder if people messed with it? 2 years back the Wiki were pretty good. I will probably be re-reading soon. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Most basic facts are correct, but if often presents assumptions as fact and does contain some errors (some of which appear intentional). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejection Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 It seems that getting back into shape and theorizing like there's no tomorrow will require some reading then. Then I can go and fan it up hardcore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: Most basic facts are correct, but if often presents assumptions as fact and does contain some errors (some of which appear intentional). I agree with that. Half of the wiki on Varys is authorial opinion or speculation rather than fact. It belongs in a wiki "Varys theories" or something. There's enough in it to create such a page for Varys. That type of theorizing within a character's page of Ice and Fire was quite unseen in comparison to others. But at least the author worded it as 'it seems that ...' And I have noticed for example that some facts are left out for current book events. Example: the page on Lys lists several characters in the seeral books, but fails to mention Lysono Maar with the Golden Company for aDwD. I use it more as a collection of referrals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejection Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 And I have noticed for example that some facts are left out for current book events. Example: the page on Lys lists several characters in the seeral books, but fails to mention Lysono Maar with the Golden Company for aDwD Who is Lysono Maar? Curse my rusty memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Dejection said: Well alright, just asking because I was looking through the Wiki of some characters and it seemed poorly worded/even some bad grammar. I wonder if people messed with it? 2 years back the Wiki were pretty good. I will probably be re-reading soon. Thanks. Most of the stuff *cited* is actually decent but there is a fair amount of unmitigated horseshit in there. Look at the Brandon Stark entry. Someone dumped paragraphs of head canon in there or useless stuff (eg He might have been a knight because he had a squire!). They revert it every time someone tries to correct it. Does this belong in a wiki article: Brandon might have been knighted, as he participated in the tourney at Harrenhal, which has been described as a tourney in which "the finest knights and noblest lords of the Seven Kingdoms" contested,[12] suggesting the possibility that the tourney was a "knights only" tourney. In addition, Brandon had a squire, Ethan Glover.[13][14] As well, Brandon had been fostered at Barrowton,[5]located on the largest barrow in the north,[15] and although knighthood is rare in the north,[16][17] "barrow knights" are mentioned by maester Luwin in 298 AC as part of the northern army. It's perfectly well cited but it's complete conjecture with no real basis in ASOIAF reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dejection said: Who is Lysono Maar? Curse my rusty memory. Look it up on the wiki Sorry, had to do it. He's the Golden Company's spymaster. From Lys. Not to be rude, but because of his description, I picture a transvestite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejection Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Alright unrelated but how do I join the chat at the bottom right? I'm putting my email and password correctly but it won't accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Dejection said: Who is Lysono Maar? Curse my rusty memory. The Golden Company's Spymaster. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lysono_Maar Though so far he's appeared only in 2 chapters, one in aDwD, mentioned in a second of aDwD, and appears in a tWoW chapter he already has an elaborate page on his character. Here's the page of Lys: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lys Where for aDwD we get the mention of an unnamed bedwarmer from Lys (she wants to tell her name, but Tyrion stops her), and an unnamed Lyseni killed in the dragon pits. But the named and peculiarly featured Lysono Maar isn't in the aDwD section for Lys. I noticed it, because I was looking for named Lyseni characters for some essay research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Wolf of the Steppes said: Look it up on the wiki Sorry, had to do it. He's the Golden Company's spymaster. From Lys. Not to be rude, but because of his description, I picture a transvestite. Now think Varys the effiminate eunuch, Sweets the hermaphrodite, oh and Hizdar in his purple tokar (a description oddly missing from the wiki) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Dejection said: Ah, it is finally time to return to the ASOIAF fan base. Get back in the thick of things, you know. My utter disappointment with the show somehow traumatized me enough to stop frequenting these forums and now it inspires both a feeling of nostalgia and a sense of being overwhelmed by how far ahead everybody here will be with regard to having the basics and the complexities on their fingertips as compared to me. So, is the Wiki of Ice and Fire a reliable source to basically catch up with things? I want so badly to get into ASOIAF, even though I never truly stopped thinking about it longingly, and would like to know if I could use the Wiki to catch up! Forgive me. I took the liberty of placing spacing betwixt your sentences. Depends on whether you want to catch up on the thing that is not supposed be mentioned in the book forum. There is no catching up on Martin’s books because book # six hasn’t been released. My guesstomation is that book # six will not be released until after season eight (it may not be released even then) As to Wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_Page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_Wiki I find the westeros site helpful. It does give citations that I can go to read for context in the books. 54 minutes ago, Dejection said: Alright unrelated but how do I join the chat at the bottom right? I'm putting my email and password correctly but it won't accept. I dunna know how to join the chat that shows up in the bottom right corner. I actually wish I could get rid of the annoyance. Hopefully the links work. If not I can edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twinslayer Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Most of the stuff *cited* is actually decent but there is a fair amount of unmitigated horseshit in there. Look at the Brandon Stark entry. Someone dumped paragraphs of head canon in there or useless stuff (eg He might have been a knight because he had a squire!). They revert it every time someone tries to correct it. Does this belong in a wiki article: Brandon might have been knighted, as he participated in the tourney at Harrenhal, which has been described as a tourney in which "the finest knights and noblest lords of the Seven Kingdoms" contested,[12] suggesting the possibility that the tourney was a "knights only" tourney. In addition, Brandon had a squire, Ethan Glover.[13][14] As well, Brandon had been fostered at Barrowton,[5]located on the largest barrow in the north,[15] and although knighthood is rare in the north,[16][17] "barrow knights" are mentioned by maester Luwin in 298 AC as part of the northern army. It's perfectly well cited but it's complete conjecture with no real basis in ASOIAF reality. Nice. My favorite is the page on Allyria Dayne. It says she is betrothed to Berric Dondarrian, citing Arya VIII from ASOS. But in Arya VIII, we learn that Berric is married ("espoused") to an unnamed aunt of Edric Dayne (who may or may not even be a Dayne). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Most of the stuff *cited* is actually decent but there is a fair amount of unmitigated horseshit in there. Look at the Brandon Stark entry. Someone dumped paragraphs of head canon in there or useless stuff (eg He might have been a knight because he had a squire!). They revert it every time someone tries to correct it. Does this belong in a wiki article: Brandon might have been knighted, as he participated in the tourney at Harrenhal, which has been described as a tourney in which "the finest knights and noblest lords of the Seven Kingdoms" contested,[12] suggesting the possibility that the tourney was a "knights only" tourney. In addition, Brandon had a squire, Ethan Glover.[13][14] As well, Brandon had been fostered at Barrowton,[5]located on the largest barrow in the north,[15] and although knighthood is rare in the north,[16][17] "barrow knights" are mentioned by maester Luwin in 298 AC as part of the northern army. It's perfectly well cited but it's complete conjecture with no real basis in ASOIAF reality. No, I don't think that paragaraph belongs in a wiki. It's personal speculation that belongs in an OP on the forum The Varys article has the same issues - Quote He then looks a Ned curiously, tilts his head and tells him, That's more detailed than a chapter synopsis on the wiki It's also full of quotes within the article, rather than at the end Here's outirght speculation and pushing for a theory (I mean I agree with the conclusion, but it's not something that belongs in a wiki that isn't called "Varys theories" Quote Varys makes a curiously weak and obligatory protest against this course of action, advising him to make haste and flee...while also giving precise directions on how to reach Tywin. Tyrion then ascends the ladder to kill his father Tywin. With this outcome and his subsequent arrangement for Tyrion to fit in to his master plan, it is very likely it was more than the threat of violence from a crippled Jaime that caused Varys to release the dwarf. As a loyalist, and knowing Tywin's threat to a Targaryen restoration, plus the fact he attempted to prevent rectification of Cersei's grievous errors, it is most likely he purposefully arranged Tywin's murder, but which strings he pulled and how are currently left unclear as Varys is a master of obfuscation. I have no idea why there are 2 paragraphs about Dany's response to Jorah admitting being a spy for Varys in a Varys article. Just list him as a known spy for Varys or something. Quote Meanwhile, encamped outside Meereen, Ser Barristan Selmy reveals to Queen Daenerys Targaryen’s horror that Ser Jorah Mormont has been spying on her on behalf of Varys and the small council for gold and in hopes of gaining a royal pardon. Barristan tells her that she is watched and since the day of her wedding to Khal Drogo there has been an informer at her side [17] – Dany knows that it can only have been Jorah. After Meereen is taken Dany confronts Jorah in the Great Pyramid with regard to his spying on her on behalf of Varys. He confesses that he took the eunuch's gold and learned some ciphers and wrote some letters. [18] He admits to her that that he suspected that the wine intended for her in Vaes Dothrak had been poisoned after reading a letter from Varys brought there by caravan. He tells her that Varys wanted her watched, but not harmed. Dany banishes Ser Jorah for his betrayal.[18] Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Quote Cersei, now ruling in King's Landing as Queen Regent to her son Tommen, appoints Qyburn to fill the position of Master of Whisperers. Qyburn notes that many of Varys's spies came to him with secrets to sell, reinforcing Cersei's belief that Varys had always oversold his value to make people dependent on him and more vulnerable to his schemes. Jaime Lannister also starts to suspect that maybe Varys had a hand in Tyrek Lannister's disappearance during the Riot of King’s Landing, his reasoning being that Tyrek as the late King Robert's former squire would have had a deal of knowledge about the king's activities including his death and knowledge like that was always valuable, a fact which Varys knew better than anyone else. In addition, Varys did not go down to the docks with the rest of the court the day Myrcella was sent to Dorne, nor did he give Cersei any warning of what was about to happen, and it would have been a easy thing for Varys to spark a riot and have agents of his snatch Tyrek in the confusion. [20] Readers also speculate that Varys was behind a puppet show in King's Landing that had become quite popular among the population. The show was about the kingdom of the beasts was ruled by a pride of Lions that grew arrogant and began to devour their own subjects, when the noble Stag makes objections they eat him too and state that it is their right as the strongest of beasts. At the end of the show a Dragon hatches from an egg and devours all the lions. When Cersei Lannister learned about the show from Qyburn she ordered the puppeteers put to death and those who watched it were to lose half their wealth if they were rich and to lose an eye for watching treason if they were poor. [21] The whole wiki on Varys is as long as an article on Arya, who's a POV with the most (or 2nd/3rd most) chapters (and that one actually skips a whole lot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Dejection said: Ah, it is finally time to return to the ASOIAF fan base. Get back in the thick of things, you know. My utter disappointment with the show somehow traumatized me enough to stop frequenting these forums and now it inspires both a feeling of nostalgia and a sense of being overwhelmed by how far ahead everybody here will be with regard to having the basics and the complexities on their fingertips as compared to me. So, is the Wiki of Ice and Fire a reliable source to basically catch up with things? I want so badly to get into ASOIAF, even though I never truly stopped thinking about it longingly, and would like to know if I could use the Wiki to catch up! It needs an update very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Feel free to suggest improvements in the wiki's subforum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 As other people have said, it is good for basic facts and chapter summaries but there is a ton of speculation and assumptions in there. Definitely useful for jogging your memory though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Nowhere near as bad as the wikipedia articles on the series. Though I did find the wiki and then this forum as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 You can't trust the Wiki. Although some of the articles are excellent and the authors don't make outrageous claims, other articles are heavily influenced by what someone called head canon. The reason you can't trust any of it is because you can't always tell the difference without careful research. You may as well just re-read the books. Two articles that leap to mind for me are the entry for "Dragon Dreams" (if blood of the dragon gave the gift of prophecy, why are the Targaryens the only dragonlords to survive the Doom?) and the Greyjoy brothers' ages (the reasoning here appears to be, well they don't tell us their not as young as Theon and Asha so therefore it is reasonable to think they are that young) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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