Who tells dany about aegon

[GyantSpyder]

I think Tyrion may deliberately lead Dany to believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre, whether he actually knows it for certain or not, to incite them to fight each other.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

4 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

 

Illyrio is not on his way to Mereen. The others have all been disclosed before the end of the book, and except for Griffin and Aegon who turned away, the rest has all arrived at Mereen by the end of the book.

 

Why the assumption that the perfumed seneschal needs to be on his way to Mereen?

Looking at the text the perfumed seneschal is separate from the others (dark flame, sun's son, etc.)

Quote

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

It comes last, after the others in a different sentence. Quaithe says the others are coming. She does not say the perfumed seneschal is coming, only that she needs to 'beware' of him.

[sweetsunray]

36 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Why the assumption that the perfumed seneschal needs to be on his way to Mereen?

Looking at the text the perfumed seneschal is separate from the others (dark flame, sun's son, etc.)

It comes last, after the others in a different sentence. Quaithe says the others are coming. She does not say the perfumed seneschal is coming, only that she needs to 'beware' of him.

I pointed out myself that the perfumed seneschal is separated from the rest. But as I said, I think this is because the 'perfumed seneschal' isn't a person.

If we leave out the ship's conversation about the meaning of its name in Tyrion's chapter, and wouldn't know about it, people would still be discussing whether it's Reznak, Varys or Illyrio, right? So, it adds nothing to the discussion of 'who is the perfumed seneschal', unless it's the answer.

Notice too that neither Moqorro nor Tyrion translate the ship's name with lots of words, except 'perfumed' and 'seneschal'. So, George does not say it outright, but has Moqorro and Tyrion use synonyms or antonyms instead. The name's ship itself is a little puzzle or riddle in itself. We are required to figure out that Stinky Steward or Fragrant Steward is actually Perfumed Seneschal, and link it to Quaite's warning.

Regardless of going to Mereen or not, person or no person, everybody and everything was revealed in relation to its symbol in aDwD, and it requires no more solving in tWoW.

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

I think Tyrion may deliberately lead Dany to believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre, whether he actually knows it for certain or not, to incite them to fight each other.

Tyrion hasn't considered Aegon to be anything but Aegon Targaryen. Nor does he think in terms of Blackfyre at all. He has however been given the clues that he's Illyrio's and Serra's son, but hasn't put them together yet at all, not even the musty boy's clothes he was given to wear. And he might at least come up with that conclusion if Dany were to propose the riddles, warnings and prophecies she's been given.

I personally don't see Dany having an issue with a Blackfyre. They're still legitimized dragons with Targ blood. Nor does she know much or care much about the Blackfyre Rebellion of a century ago. It means nothing to her. I don't think even the Golden Company seems to care for it anymore. What would get her angry is someone claiming to be a Targaryen, while he's the son of a Pentosi cheesemonger and a Lyseni bedwarmer (and Tyrion wouldn't know that Serra might have Targ blood).

Not sure though why Tyrion would want to incite them to fight each other, especially if say Aegon manages to oust Cersei or is about to.  

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

If we leave out the ship's conversation about the meaning of its name in Tyrion's chapter, and wouldn't know about it, people would still be discussing whether it's Reznak, Varys or Illyrio, right? So, it adds nothing to the discussion of 'who is the perfumed seneschal', unless it's the answer.

Yes, the conversation does give us the answer. But the boat is not the answer, IMO. 

Quote

Yes and no. The world's deliverer may snick off my head or give me to her dragons as a savory. "Not me," said Tyrion. "For me, it is all about the olives. Though I fear I may grow old and die before I taste one. I could dog-paddle faster than we're sailing. Tell me, was Selaesori Qhoran a triarch or a turtle?"

The red priest chuckled. "Neither. Qhoran is … not a ruler, but one who serves and counsels such, and helps conduct his business. You of Westeros might say steward or magister."

King's Hand? That amused him. "And selaesori?"

I am with you that the conversation tells us who the 'perfumed seneschal' is, but in a more discrete way. 

We find out that qhoran can mean steward or... magister. I believe we should be focusing on the magister rather than the steward. Obviously Illyrio is a magister. 

We also have this from GoT:

Quote

It was warm and close inside behind the curtains. Dany could smell the stench of Illyrio's pallid flesh through his heavy perfumes.

Also, Dany mistrusts Illyrio:

Quote

Dany had no agents, no way of knowing what anyone was doing or thinking across the narrow sea, but she mistrusted Illyrio's sweet words as she mistrusted everything about Illyrio. Her brother was nodding eagerly, however. "I shall kill the Usurper myself," he promised, who had never killed anyone, "as he killed my brother Rhaegar. And Lannister too, the Kingslayer, for what he did to my father."

"That would be most fitting," Magister Illyrio said. Dany saw the smallest hint of a smile playing around his full lips, but her brother did not notice. Nodding, he pushed back a curtain and stared off into the night, and Dany knew he was fighting the Battle of the Trident once again.

I believe putting these pieces together tells us that Illyrio is the Perfumed Senechal. 

 

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

The name's ship itself is a little puzzle or riddle in itself. We are required to figure out that Stinky Steward or Fragrant Steward is actually Perfumed Seneschal, and link it to Quaite's warning.

Why would Dany need to beware a ship stranded in the ocean? If you say it's more the contents of the ship then why would Quaithe need to repeat herself? She already said lion and dark flame for Tyrion and Moqorro.

[sweetsunray]

5 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Why would Dany need to beware a ship stranded in the ocean? If you say it's more the contents of the ship then why would Quaithe need to repeat herself? She already said lion and dark flame for Tyrion and Moqorro.

She didn't mention Jorah or Penny in that list, did she? They're on the Perfumed Seneschal.

All those that Quaithe warns against are people who mean to help her and ally with her, and yet she is told to mistrust them. Why? Because they all want something of her, all ally with her for their own agenda, and part of that agenda is compatible with hers - a tit-for-that. However, if she turns them down, they'll go it alone anyhow or seek other allies. They don't care about the part of her agenda that is incompatible with their own. They won't serve her or be loyal to her, when she does not give the tit for that.

And isn't Jorah one of such people - who tries to manipulate her for his own needs and goals.

BTW I don't trust Quaithe. Her warning only serves to make Dany alienate possible allies (alliances will always have a degree of tit-for-that) and does little about the Harpy's sons or the attempt to poison Dany.

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

She didn't mention Jorah or Penny in that list, did she? They're on the Perfumed Seneschal.

She would still be repeating herself because of mentioning Tyrion and Moqorro already. 

 

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

All those that Quaithe warns against are people who mean to help her and ally with her, and yet she is told to mistrust them.

They are also all people on their way to Mereen, which Illyrio is not. Perhaps that's why Illyrio would be mentioned at the end in a different sentence. 

 

4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And isn't Jorah one of such people - who tries to manipulate her for his own needs and goals.

Before his exile, yes. Now? I don't think we know for sure.

If Quaithe wanted to warn Dany to not trust Jorah she would have listed him with the others. Kraken, dark flame, hairy bear....

I don't think she would say 'beware the perfumed seneschal' to actually mean Jorah. 

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

She would still be repeating herself because of mentioning Tyrion and Moqorro already.

Well, she sort of repeats herself with JonCon and Aegon, because those two are a team. Several mentions seem superfluous. 

4 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I don't think she would say 'beware the perfumed seneschal' to actually mean Jorah.

That's not what I said. He's one of those on the Perfumed Seneschal, as are others, and carries at least 2 of the people she warns against.

Now, I'm not saying that Dnay should trust Illyrio, and yes I know he wears perfume (not able to hide the sweat smell) and that he's a magister, but it's strange then that Quaithe never warned against Illyrio before then.

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

18 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, she sort of repeats herself with JonCon and Aegon, because those two are a team. Several mentions seem superfluous. 

They are still two separate people though. The could have different ideas and intentions in TWOW. Plus that's not the same as saying the name of the boat to actually mean the people on the boat that were already mentioned. 

 

20 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

That's not what I said. He's one of those on the Perfumed Seneschal, as are others, and carries at least 2 of the people she warns against.

Hmm... I don't see it. Why warn against Tyrion and Moqorro separately then say the boat they are all on?

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

26 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Now, I'm not saying that Dnay should trust Illyrio, and yes I know he wears perfume (not able to hide the sweat smell) and that he's a magister, but it's strange then that Quaithe never warned against Illyrio before then.

To that I could not say. But isn't this warning from Quaithe the first where she warns against specific people?

[sweetsunray]

53 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Why warn against Tyrion and Moqorro separately then say the boat they are all on?

Well, at the time of the warning the ship hadn't sailed from Volantis yet, right? Quaithe gives the warning in Dany 2 of aDwD.

Dany II is chronologically after Tyrion III (where he arrives at the Shy Maid at the end of it and they start their journey for Volantis), after Quentyn seeking passage with a ship in Volantis. We know Benerro and Moqorro are searching the flames for a ship for passage too, and that Jorah has been brooding in the same area. Apart from Victarion they are all seeking to find passage aboard ships, from Volantis.

Clearly, Quaithe has not yet seen ahead in the future far enough that Aegon and Griffin will turn west and abandon any plan to seek out Dany further. If she could have seen that, she wouldn't have mentioned them. So, Quaithe is going on information available at the time of the warning, and is missing information of the future, except for the Selaeris Qhoran, because Moqorro had seen in the flames that the Selaeris Qhoran would never make it to Qarth, but instead was the way to Mereen. The flames can prophecy well ahead in time.

Note how it's a ship meant to sail for Qarth, and likely a ship that sails from Qarth to Volantis as well. Quaithe is from Qarth. She knows this ship. It may have just departed from Qarth, when Quaithe warns Dany.

Now, if Quaithe knows that Moqorro will try to get to Mereen with the Selaeris Qhoran (that likely still even has to arrive in Volantis) while all the others she warns against are on their way to Volantis or are still in Volantis seeking a ship, but otherwise has not yet seen how exactly they will arrive at Mereen, a warning against the ship makes total sense, because she might have suspected that several of them might board it.

1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

But isn't this warning from Quaithe the first where she warns against specific people?

Yes, but what was her warning in Qarth to Dany?

Quote

They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see they shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power

And Quentyn does try to get a dragon for himself, behind her back. Victarion wants to get one with the dragonhorn. Within this context, Quaithe has seen that if these people see dragons, they will lust to possess one.

Illyrio makes less sense then. He wants Aegon on the Iron Throne. He doesn't want to possess a live dragon, fire made flesh. He'd never try to steal one himself.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, at the time of the warning the ship hadn't sailed from Volantis yet, right? Quaithe gives the warning in Dany 2 of aDwD.

Dany II is chronologically after Tyrion III (where he arrives at the Shy Maid at the end of it and they start their journey for Volantis), after Quentyn seeking passage with a ship in Volantis. We know Benerro and Moqorro are searching the flames for a ship for passage too, and that Jorah has been brooding in the same area. Apart from Victarion they are all seeking to find passage aboard ships, from Volantis.

Clearly, Quaithe has not yet seen ahead in the future far enough that Aegon and Griffin will turn west and abandon any plan to seek out Dany further. If she could have seen that, she wouldn't have mentioned them. So, Quaithe is going on information available at the time of the warning, and is missing information of the future, except for the Selaeris Qhoran, because Moqorro had seen in the flames that the Selaeris Qhoran would never make it to Qarth, but instead was the way to Mereen. The flames can prophecy well ahead in time.

Note how it's a ship meant to sail for Qarth, and likely a ship that sails from Qarth to Volantis as well. Quaithe is from Qarth. She knows this ship. It may have just departed from Qarth, when Quaithe warns Dany.

Now, if Quaithe knows that Moqorro will try to get to Mereen with the Selaeris Qhoran (that likely still even has to arrive in Volantis) while all the others she warns against are on their way to Volantis or are still in Volantis seeking a ship, but otherwise has not yet seen how exactly they will arrive at Mereen, a warning against the ship makes total sense, because she might have suspected that several of them might board it.

Great points all.

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

And Quentyn does try to get a dragon for himself, behind her back. Victarion wants to get one with the dragonhorn. Within this context, Quaithe has seen that if these people see dragons, they will lust to possess one.

And perhaps Tyrion and Moqorro will lust as well. Tyrion certainly has some previous quotes to back this up. Jon and Aegon wanted dragons as well. However, 'perfumed seneschal' is separate from the others. I think this means something. The perfumed seneschal comes after 'remember the undying'. I think Quaithe is going from unknowns (dark flame, sun's son, Kraken, etc.) to knowns in the Undying and perfumed seneschal.

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

He wants Aegon on the Iron Throne. He doesn't want to possess a live dragon, fire made flesh. He'd never try to steal one himself.

Yes. Another reason why 'perfumed seneschal' is listed separately from the others. 

 

[sweetsunray]

14 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Tyrion certainly has some previous quotes to back this up. Jon and Aegon wanted dragons as well.

He was put to writing about dragons on the Shy Maid quite early on. He mentioned he could help serve Dany with that.

16 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

However, 'perfumed seneschal' is separate from the others. I think this means something. The perfumed seneschal comes after 'remember the undying'. I think Quaithe is going from unknowns (dark flame, sun's son, Kraken, etc.) to knowns in the Undying and perfumed seneschal.

Not convinced, and less now that it's clear that Quaithe's warning are always about those who covet dragons and would seek her out for the dragons. It's not set apart because the Perfumed Seneschal doesn't covet them. If Quaithe was warning Dany simply about anyone who might betray her, then she'd have warned for the Harpy too, or Yunkai, because those too are a danger to her and her dragons... except they want the dragons dead, not use their power for themselves.

You're thinking Quaithe warns about the prophecy in the HotU... but the Undying were people who wanted to devour her for power. "Remember the Undying" points to the actual Undying who lured her in and wanted to eat her, not the prophecy.

Does Quaithe even know the visions and prophecy that Dany had there (don't recall). I do know though that there's no Perfumed Seneschal, or Illyrio in it. There's only the mummer's dragon.

If she cannot see in the future, but gathers her warnings because she sees Quantyn insist to his fellow men that they still must get to Mereen and not turn back, because Dorne needs dragons; sees Tyrion mention how he knows stuff about dragons and Jon Con ordering hmi to write it down, and whatever Aegon says about "oooh dragons"; Moqorro watching the fires and saying "the Selaeris Qhoran is the only ship to get me to Mereen" together with "something something dragons", and then Victarion discussing the dragonhorn and how he's gonna get himself a dragon, then it absolute makes sense for her to warn about the ship the Perfumed Seneschal, because she doesn't know that the Perfumed Seneschal will not arrive itself at Mereen either, only its passengers.

George included mistakes and flaws in it for a reason - it shows us that Quaithe's knowledge through the Glass Candles is limited to the present. She can't actually see the future, nor can she read minds. 

[Shi Qiang]

9 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

I think Tyrion may deliberately lead Dany to believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre, whether he actually knows it for certain or not, to incite them to fight each other.

That would be stupid.  Tyrion is a smart but very weak person who allows himself to be ruled by his many vices.  He's an alcoholic and an oversexed little man,   He needs to serve Dany.  Without dear old Tywin where will he get his next meal ticket?  Dany is the best hope for Westeros and even a drunken little dick like the imp would see that.   He caused enough trouble with Aegon as it is but that was because he was driven by hate towards his sister.  He wanted Aegon to make trouble for Cersei.  Aegon is not like to survive a war with the Lannisters and the Tyrells even if he had the full backing of Dorne. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Quaithe's warning are always about those who covet dragons and would seek her out for the dragons.

Always? 'To go north you must go south...' has nothing to do with dragons (at least not directly). Then we have the dragon warning, then this one. Right? The way I see it there is one about dragons and this one which may, or may not, be about dragons. I wouldn't say that all her warnings are about dragons.

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It's not set apart because the Perfumed Seneschal doesn't covet them. If Quaithe was warning Dany simply about anyone who might betray her, then she'd have warned for the Harpy too, or Yunkai, because those too are a danger to her and her dragons... except they want the dragons dead, not use their power for themselves.

I'm not trying to say that Quaithe is simply warning Dany about everyone who might be trying to betray her. I'm saying that Quaithe is telling Dany to beware of the perfumed seneschal. Beware of his intentions, interests, etc.

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

You're thinking Quaithe warns about the prophecy in the HotU

No. I'm not thinking that at all. Come on sweetsunray, you're better than that! I'm thinking that Quaithe goes from discussing people currently unknown to Dany (dark flame, sun's son, lion, etc.) to people she needs to remember  (Undying, known to Dany). Illyrio would be continuing this order (known to Dany). The boat would be another unknown to Dany, something she doesn't know. She knows Illyrio. 

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

then it absolute makes sense for her to warn about the ship the Perfumed Seneschal, because she doesn't know that the Perfumed Seneschal will not arrive itself at Mereen either, only its passengers.

To me it doesn't make sense. I don't think she would need to say the boat after already saying two passengers on the boat. We have different views on this, which is great! 

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

George included mistakes and flaws in it for a reason - it shows us that Quaithe's knowledge through the Glass Candles is limited to the present. She can't actually see the future, nor can she read minds. 

Or so we had to look past he boat to figure out it is Illyrio. Why can't her glass candle knowledge see Illyrio's discussions and actions as a seneschal over Tyrion, Jon, Aegon, etc?

By the way, I'm not 100% convinced it is Illyrio. We could find out in TWOW it is the boat. I just don't believe we need to go with this all the way. I totally respect your views on this and think you are one of the best posters on the boards. I've read all your Mythological Weave essays and think they're great! But I don't think you're going to convince me, nor I you. Which is awesome and fun to discuss!

[HoodedCrow]

Who owns the boat?

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

No. I'm not thinking that at all. Come on sweetsunray, you're better than that! I'm thinking that Quaithe goes from discussing people currently unknown to Dany (dark flame, sun's son, lion, etc.) to people she needs to remember  (Undying, known to Dany). Illyrio would be continuing this order (known to Dany). The boat would be another unknown to Dany, something she doesn't know. She knows Illyrio. 

Sorry, I misunderstood what you tried to say about the Undying.

 

3 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Always? 'To go north you must go south...' has nothing to do with dragons (at least not directly). Then we have the dragon warning, then this one. Right? The way I see it there is one about dragons and this one which may, or may not, be about dragons. I wouldn't say that all her warnings are about dragons.

That's not a warning, but a guidance. if I'm advizing you how to get somewhere, would you call it a "warning" or "guidance"? If I'm telling you to beware of people coveting your dragons and will seek you out fo rit, and later tell you to not trust x, y, z who are on their way and beware of f, would you consider that guidance or a warning? That's why I said "always"

 

3 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'm saying that Quaithe is telling Dany to beware of the perfumed seneschal. Beware of his intentions, interests, etc.

Well are his interests and intentions necessarily against Dany? Ok, so he may want his son to ride her coattail, but he doesn't want her dragons (and euhm he gave her those°. He sent her 3 ships loaded with goods (also worth 3 dragon eggs), which she appropriated and got an army and sacked cities with. And at this point I think Quaithe should be warning Illyrio to beware of the mother of dragons   If her forces end up sacking Pentos and killing him, she's sort of the one who stole from him and betrayed him, no? Sure, he's a crook, but all in all I'm thinking he's more of a fan of her than eveyrbody else. 

 

3 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

To me it doesn't make sense. I don't think she would need to say the boat after already saying two passengers on the boat. We have different views on this, which is great! 

Well, all she knows is that the boat is likely to end up taking plenty of those passengers. If she doesn't know the ship won't actually reach Mereen, but based on Morroqo's talk thinks it will end up going all the way to Mereen, instead of Qarth, and there is a likelihood it will take several of the passengers she's trying to warn about on board, it absolutely makes sense to give the name of vessel that Quaithe thinks Dany could expect their arrival on.

Let's say I know some people are on their way to visit you, more interested in your house's interior than yourself, and I also learn there's only 1 bus leaving a month called the Magical Mystery Tour, wouldn't it make sense that I both warn your about the individuals (in case they don't take that bus) as well as that bus (for the likelihood that many of them will be on it)? That in the end only 2 of them got on the bus, and the bus crashed along the way, and the survivors hitched different ridesn does not make it illogical that I would have warned you about the Magical Mystery Tour bus as well as the individual descriptions of the ones you shouldn't trust. It's quite smart to both give a list of the individuals as well as the most probable means they'll get to you.

3 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Why can't her glass candle knowledge see Illyrio's discussions and actions as a seneschal over Tyrion, Jon, Aegon, etc?

Well, obviously she knows Aegon is the mummer's dragon, so she knows something about Illyrio and Varys.

It just doesn't seem to me she's all that bothered about the political games or concerned about that. Her biggest concern seems to be people stealing her dragons to use them for their own ends. The Harpy's sons are already killing Dany's people, and Quaithe likely could have identified the Harpy, but she doesn't bother imo.

Now I understand why she doesn't bother with the Yunkai. They're a circus more than an army. Given their total ineptitude, I don't even understand why Dany believed she couldn't take the outside threat on. Soldiers on stilts with pink plumes waving, and others chained so they're slow and immobile and easily trapped, and then some soldiers trained by a 16 year old wannabe girl. She should have had a French taunter on the walls of Mereen to deal with them -

BTW I'm fine with disagreeing  

[HoodedCrow]

Hmm, I am curious and don't recall. It wouldn't be too far fetched, if you were Illyrio, to name a  ship "Perfumed Senechal". In that way, the warning could be about Illyrio without actually having him move from his current location. He does have his bejeweled fingers in a lot of places. It could be one of the solutions to the Meerenese Knot.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well are his interests and intentions necessarily against Dany? Ok, so he may want his son to ride her coattail, but he doesn't want her dragons (and euhm he gave her those°. He sent her 3 ships loaded with goods (also worth 3 dragon eggs), which she appropriated and got an army and sacked cities with.

The reader knows this, does Quaithe? 

9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And at this point I think Quaithe should be warning Illyrio to beware of the mother of dragons   If her forces end up sacking Pentos and killing him, she's sort of the one who stole from him and betrayed him, no? Sure, he's a crook, but all in all I'm thinking he's more of a fan of her than eveyrbody else. 

Yes, but we don't know what Quaithe's perception is.

9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, all she knows is that the boat is likely to end up taking plenty of those passengers. If she doesn't know the ship won't actually reach Mereen, but based on Morroqo's talk thinks it will end up going all the way to Mereen, instead of Qarth, and there is a likelihood it will take several of the passengers she's trying to warn about on board, it absolutely makes sense to give the name of vessel that Quaithe thinks Dany could expect their arrival on.

Let's say I know some people are on their way to visit you, more interested in your house's interior than yourself, and I also learn there's only 1 bus leaving a month called the Magical Mystery Tour, wouldn't it make sense that I both warn your about the individuals (in case they don't take that bus) as well as that bus (for the likelihood that many of them will be on it)? That in the end only 2 of them got on the bus, and the bus crashed along the way, and the survivors hitched different ridesn does not make it illogical that I would have warned you about the Magical Mystery Tour bus as well as the individual descriptions of the ones you shouldn't trust. It's quite smart to both give a list of the individuals as well as the most probable means they'll get to you.

I understandwhat you are trying to explain. I still feel that it would be incredibly unrealistic to expect more than 2 of the members on the list to be aboard. Therefore I feel that Quaithewould be repeating herself by saying the name of the boat when she already said the two members aboard.

9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It just doesn't seem to me she's all that bothered about the political games or concerned about that. Her biggest concern seems to be people stealing her dragons to use them for their own ends. The Harpy's sons are already killing Dany's people, and Quaithe likely could have identified the Harpy, but she doesn't bother imo.

Good point. It does seem that Quaithe'sconcerns are dragon related. 

9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

BTW I'm fine with disagreeing

I figured you were. I just wanted to express that I respect your views and am keeping an open mind.

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I still feel that it would be incredibly unrealistic to expect more than 2 of the members on the list to be aboard. Therefore I feel that Quaithewould be repeating herself by saying the name of the boat when she already said the two members aboard.

Those two are a powerful magician and another who has the most knowledge on dragons. They pose the most dangerous dragon stealing combo (other than the dragon horn).

I can notice during a discussion whether someone can see merit in someone else's arguments, even if they are not convinced. So, all's good