U.S. Politics: Despite Negative Press Covfefe, We Will Always Have Paris

[Zorral]

I keep thinking about those Rusty Zipper fellows.

Back in the day there were the loom breakers, for whom many of us, at least in our uni days instinctively felt sympathetic toward, just as we felt the same sympathy for the home artisans whose livelihoods as stocking makers, spinners, weavers, glovers etc. were destroyed by the coming of early industrialization.  Novels were written of them even, or at least they got roles in novels by writers such as Mary Gaskell and George Eliot -- though generally these novels were written quite some time after the crisis had been replaced by new ones.

Are these Rusty Zipper fellows any different?  If I were sitting in the local in the time of the 18th century when manufacturing etc. were all cottage industries -- including weavers, dyers, spinners and so on -- were starting to lose work, would their words have been the same as the Rusty Zippers'?  Then began the great migrations to the cities -- for there work could be found.   These populations had to give up being their own bosses, clean air and decent homes for the slums and dirt and degradation of the factory cities.  Would I have respected these people -- if indeed, of course, I wasn't one of them myself, which by all odds I would have been, most likely.

In our own era there is supposed to be programs to help re-educate to re-enter the workplace.  But people don't want to be in that workplace much.  It would also mean moving away, but they can't afford to move away -- really living in the cities where the work is, even if one is qualified for the new economy, even if one is working in the new economy -- unless one has a trust fund, rich parents, etc. , one can't hardly afford to live there anyway.

The goods that the factories provided got us the first ready-to-wear, and many other things, that were cheaper, and made lives particularly for women (middle class women? only) easier -- releasing them from the 24/7 obligation to spin, weave and create their families clothing.  Textiles were expensive until the 19th century . . . .

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Ivanka Trump Failing Miserably as Supposed Dad-Whisperer...

https://wonkette.com/618044/oh-go-fuck-yourself-ivanka-trump?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

 

[BloodRider]

18 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

What classic cinematic couple would that line apply to?

Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington?

 

Nope that was Philadelphia 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, BloodRider said:

Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington?

 

Nope that was Philadelphia 

That's pretty solid though. The only Pittsburgh centric film I can think off of the top of my head is The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh, and that was a sports centric comedy that didn't have much of a romantic angle to it.

[Zorral]

Flashdance? The Wonder Boys? Dead Poets Society

[Fragile Bird]

I was referring to the New Yorker cartoon, actually. "we'll always have Pittsburgh". Trump doesn't represent Paris, remember?

[Altherion]

One can level many criticisms at Trump, but letting a crisis go to waste is not one of them :

Quote

President Donald Trump touted his so-called travel ban Saturday in the wake of reports that people were hit by a van and stabbed in London, while also pledging assistance to Britain.

Without referring explicitly to the London situation, Trump wrote on his personal account: "We need to be smart, vigilant and tough. We need the courts to give us back our rights. We need the Travel Ban as an extra level of safety!"

Eight minutes later, he tweeted, "Whatever the United States can do to help out in London and the U. K., we will be there - WE ARE WITH YOU. GOD BLESS!"

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

38 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I was referring to the New Yorker cartoon, actually. "we'll always have Pittsburgh". Trump doesn't represent Paris, remember?

I hadn't seen the cartoon, but I caught that line in his little Rose Garden speech. That he was elected by the people of Pittsburgh, not Paris. The only problem there from a title/pop culture reference is that I don't think there's one involving Pittsburgh that's as iconic as the line from Casablanca.

[MerenthaClone]

44 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I hadn't seen the cartoon, but I caught that line in his little Rose Garden speech. That he was elected by the people of Pittsburgh, not Paris. The only problem there from a title/pop culture reference is that I don't think there's one involving Pittsburgh that's as iconic as the line from Casablanca.

Well, also the problem that Pittsburgh voted pretty significantly against him.  Allegheny county went 55 to 39 for Hillary, iirc, and Pittsburgh proper was higher, to the rough tune of ~75% to 80% pro-Clinton.  So, yeah.  

Pittsburgh's standing iconic pop-culture reference is being a failed steel town, which is a perception the city fights very strongly.  The G8 was held here a few years ago specifically because Pittsburgh was an example of the Rust Belt that was choosing to look ahead to biomed, tech, and sustainable energy as viable options instead of clinging so, so desperately to coal like the rest of the region.  And, shockingly, Pittsburgh has had a pretty huge turnaround while outlying western PA and northern WVA continues to shit itself in a heroin-induced dream of coal.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, MerenthaClone said:

Well, also the problem that Pittsburgh voted pretty significantly against him.  Allegheny county went 55 to 39 for Hillary, iirc, and Pittsburgh proper was higher, to the rough tune of ~75% to 80% pro-Clinton.  So, yeah.  

Pittsburgh's standing iconic pop-culture reference is being a failed steel town, which is a perception the city fights very strongly.  The G8 was held here a few years ago specifically because Pittsburgh was an example of the Rust Belt that was choosing to look ahead to biomed, tech, and sustainable energy as viable options instead of clinging so, so desperately to coal like the rest of the region.  And, shockingly, Pittsburgh has had a pretty huge turnaround while outlying western PA and northern WVA continues to shit itself in a heroin-induced dream of coal.

That last bit has titular promise, methinks. Despite Negative Press Covfefe, Western PA Continues To Shit Itself in a Heroin Induced Dream of Coal. Kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

[House Balstroko]

10 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Uh, do you know how the U.S. (and everyone else) reacted to French/British 'intervention' in Egypt in the 50's re: Suez? Unintentionally awesome example to cite in defense of 'interventionism'(Eisenhower made no bones about calling it colonialism) and exceptionalism. If the US had thereafter walked it's own talk the ME would be a much better place today.

I wasn't defending interventionism. I was just pointing out the fact that it's been around for ages and is not a uniquely new phenomenon. 

As to your second point, that's debatable. The problems faced in the ME go back to the days of colonialism. Then you would still have the issue raised by Israel's presence vis a vis it's neighbours, the Sunni/Shia sectarian divide which has existed for over a thousand years, tribal warfare... It's a much more complex issue than what is usually discussed.

 

 

[lokisnow]

On 6/2/2017 at 7:12 PM, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

What classic cinematic couple would that line apply to?

Robert DeNiro and Christopher Walken in "The Deer Hunter"

"we'll always have Pittsburgh!"

"...yeah..."

 

*click boom*

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Robert DeNiro and Christopher Walken in "The Deer Hunter"

"we'll always have Pittsburgh!"

"...yeah..."

 

*click boom*

Not bad at all. I stand corrected. 

[IamMe90]

11 hours ago, MerenthaClone said:

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/in-an-unprecedented-court-escalation-trump-protesters-could-be-facing-decades-in-prison-for-inauguration-demonstrations/

Cool, cool.  Totally normal.  

Holy fuck. 

I don't see how either these additional charges, nor the sentences they carry stand up on appeal. But I've been shocked and disgusted by the happenings in our country almost daily it seems, so who knows at this point honestly. 

[Altherion]

9 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I don't see how either these additional charges, nor the sentences they carry stand up on appeal.

I have little doubt that this will get smacked down on appeal, but the process itself is a kind of punishment. From the article:

Quote

Alsip and the other defendants face the additional strain of having to pay for travel expenses to and from Washington for each of their court hearings before they go to trial. “Most of us don’t have a whole lot of money,” she said. “Generally we are fighting the rich because we are economically or politically disadvantaged and don’t have a lot of capital.”

And even if somebody gives them money (I suspect there are rich liberals who can be persuaded to do so), it's still a waste of time.

[all swedes are racist]

no need, this kind of thing is already covered by our soros expense accounts

[DireWolfSpirit]

Comedian makes a damn good point here- 

Hughley: “If You Got Mad At Kathy Griffin And Didn’t Say S**t About Ted Nugent, You’re A Hypocrite”

I've already seen this hypocracy from a few workmates. 

[butterbumps!]

19 hours ago, Gorn said:

Let's not assume that every Stein voter would automatically become a Clinton voter if Stein did not run. Yes, some of them would have voted for Clinton, but some of them would have voted for other third party candidates like Johnson, or even for Trump. Most, I suspect, would've stayed at home or cast a blank balot - after all, there is a reason why they did not vote for Clinton in the first place.

A greater number of viable candidates representing a wide range of beliefs and positions is a good thing for democracy, not a bad one. The Democratic candidate is not automatically "owed" the votes from all left-leaning voters, they have to earn them.

Just  to be clear, this is not a defense of Stein - she was a horrible candidate.

I think this is largely missing the point.  That all Stein voters might not have broken for Clinton by staying home or given a protest vote is exactly the kind of issue I'm trying to address (I'm pointing out the Left's apparent compulsion to make the perfect the enemy of the good when voting for candidates.  That is, when we bother to vote at all).  And one votes for Stein b/c the Dem candidate isn't far enough left (or "too corrupt" in the case of Clinton), especially on issues of climate change.   Stein voters are generally would-be Democrat voters (as opposed to conservative or libertarian), and I'd hazard the guess that pulling out of Paris is a devastating development for them given their prioritized environmental ideals.   

More generally, unlike with parliamentary systems, the US system does not benefit from a "greater number of candidates representing a wide range of beliefs and positions" in our presidential elections.  Our system is about two candidates.  More candidates in the general election stage is not an automatically good thing, as the choice is going to be a binary between the top two candidates.  End of story.  Simply put, if you want to cultivate a wide range of beliefs and positions, get active at the local levels and make sure you vote in every election.  Voting in the presidential general election is not the appropriate time to be screwing around with this, because our system is just not made for it, and we are seeing the devastating consequences.

No one said that the Dem candidate is "automatically owed votes."   I'm saying people need to stop letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, especially as how not voting appropriately (by protest, third party or abstention) has earned us an administration that is antithetical to anyone holding center-right to leftist values.  Which is most of the country.

More explicitly, most of the people in this country have values that generally align with the Democratic party's.  According to polls, most of the country actually wants what the Dems are selling.    From gay marriage to seeing healthcare as a right, it looks like the good majority of this country actually hold Democrat values.   But we are really, really  bad at voting!    Conservative values are a minority in this country, though their leaders are good at overcoming that disadvantage, sometimes in miserable ways such as vote suppression and gerrymandering.  But also in other ways, like actually getting out and voting for everything, and doing so for the candidates that are closest to their values overall that have the highest chance of winning.  Those of us with nondeplorable beliefs really need to be better and more realistic about this.   

[Fragile Bird]

I try to not to demean Trump with name calling but to simply rely on facts and let the facts speak for themselves, but he has really disgusted me this morning. What an asshole the man is. He's on a twitter rant this morning, all to push his Muslim ban of course, and has deliberately edited the Lord Mayor of London to cast him in a bad light. 

He tweeted something like '7 dead and 48 injured and the mayor says there's no need to be alaremed'. The mayor said there's no need to be alarmed about seeing armed police in the streets, which mayors, governors, presidents and prime ministers have said in times of crisis since forever. But the Lord Mayor is a Muslim.

What a fucking fucker that man is.

[zelticgar]

11 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I try to not to demean Trump with name calling but to simply rely on facts and let the facts speak for themselves, but he has really disgusted me this morning. What an asshole the man is. He's on a twitter rant this morning, all to push his Muslim ban of course, and has deliberately edited the Lord Mayor of London to cast him in a bad light. 

He tweeted something like '7 dead and 48 injured and the mayor says there's no need to be alaremed'. The mayor said there's no need to be alarmed about seeing armed police in the streets, which mayors, governors, presidents and prime ministers have said in times of crisis since forever. But the Lord Mayor is a Muslim.

What a fucking fucker that man is.

I also try to take the personal views out of it and separate the ideas. I can't comment on the tweets about London or the Mayor but I will say that Trump's push to limit immigration from muslim majority countries is a good policy for the US given what we are seeing happening in Europe. Lots of nonsense and crazy stuff happening in the government right now but I feel a lot more at ease regarding that policy push.