Daegon5585

[Theory] History of Aegons Conquest repeated

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Do, I have this theory that I believe might be a possible outcome as well as, in my opinion, an interesting plot point / arc.

What if Daenaerys conquers Westeros with the aid of two brothers and a bastard who descended from her line. Her "brothers" being Jon Snow (her nephew actually) and Young Griff Aegon (if he ever appears in the show.) And the Bastard being Gendry. 

Would be an almost mirrored outcome as the original conquest of Westeros with Aegon, his 2 sisters and their bastard brother Orys (who later becomes Orys Baratheon thusly Gendry being a descendent.)

Thoughts & Opinions?

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If A+J=T then Tyrion is the other brother and the theory makes a lot more sense.  Instead of Gendry it may be Edric Storm, but either would work.  I really don't want to believe A+J=T but the show could do it, and this is a highly possible outcome.

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The show doesn't know or care about the details of Aegon's conquest, thus they most likely aren't building this kind of parallel up. 

I agree with Lucius about A+J=T, I hate it but the show (or books) might decide to go with it anyways. Two brothers check. 

But I don't think Gendry will play any part in this, he is way too small and insignificant. He will maybe reunite with Arya and/or davos and help the cause by forging valyrian steel weapons for the important people or reforge Ice if d&d want to do an overdramatic stark fanservice or something similar. But eating at a table with Jon Daenerys and Tyrion after rowing the sea for 3 seasons... not in a million years. 

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11 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

The show doesn't know or care about the details of Aegon's conquest, thus they most likely aren't building this kind of parallel up. 

I agree with Lucius about A+J=T, I hate it but the show (or books) might decide to go with it anyways. Two brothers check. 

But I don't think Gendry will play any part in this, he is way too small and insignificant. He will maybe reunite with Arya and/or davos and help the cause by forging valyrian steel weapons for the important people or reforge Ice if d&d want to do an overdramatic stark fanservice or something similar. But eating at a table with Jon Daenerys and Tyrion after rowing the sea for 3 seasons... not in a million years

You are going to enjoy the coming season..

11 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

If A+J=T then Tyrion is the other brother and the theory makes a lot more sense.  Instead of Gendry it may be Edric Storm, but either would work.  I really don't want to believe A+J=T but the show could do it, and this is a highly possible outcome.

Its Opposite for me the show hasn't set up the theory at all and it will come out of no where not to mention undermine RLJ. .people cab say show did give us hints about AJT but we also have people believing that Jon and sansa had romance ..so don't worry it won't happen

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1 hour ago, Drogonthedread said:

You are going to enjoy the coming season..

Its Opposite for me the show hasn't set up the theory at all and it will come out of no where not to mention undermine RLJ. .people cab say show did give us hints about AJT but we also have people believing that Jon and sansa had romance ..so don't worry it won't happen

:stunned: what is that supposed to mean? Is it going to be even worse than I expect? 

You can kinda force it onto certain show elements (which were originally 100% about something else with no intention of foreshadowing AJT, admittedly): 

Tywin tells Tyrion he is not his son when he shoots him (even though who wouldn't say the same when their son kills them)

the dragons like(=don't eat) Tyrion (even though they liked Doreah and Irri too) 

And I'm sure people would also roll with the Varys quote about "a very small man can cast a very large shadow" and we almost always get the first glimpse of the dragons via their shadow. Omg what a reference. (Even though what Varys clearly meant was Tyrion's influence as Hand in KL) 

so yeah the show can totally go down that road and even claim they "foreshadowed" it. 

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Dany might be in many ways like Aegon 3 dragons (far smaller) and a larger army, landing on Dragonstone, Jon will bend the knee like Torrhen which will please many fans - so that is another parallel to Aegon's conquest.  Situations are a bit different in general. 

She has the White Walkers to fight, unlike Aegon. Dorne will not oppose her, she is in an alliance with them, the Riverlands will not oppose her either, so no need to torch off Harrenhal.

I see why people would think about comparing these two campaigns.

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3 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

:stunned: what is that supposed to mean? Is it going to be even worse than I expect? 

You can kinda force it onto certain show elements (which were originally 100% about something else with no intention of foreshadowing AJT, admittedly): 

Tywin tells Tyrion he is not his son when he shoots him (even though who wouldn't say the same when their son kills them)

the dragons like(=don't eat) Tyrion (even though they liked Doreah and Irri too) 

And I'm sure people would also roll with the Varys quote about "a very small man can cast a very large shadow" and we almost always get the first glimpse of the dragons via their shadow. Omg what a reference. (Even though what Varys clearly meant was Tyrion's influence as Hand in KL) 

so yeah the show can totally go down that road and even claim they "foreshadowed" it. 

Show has the subtlety of a hammer knocking through a glass window. Olly, Shireen, RLJ etc.

They would have to need some set up in order to make it believeable and realistic. I know some folks around here hope for it and in general in fandom, but it lacks any solid evidence. Tyrion is a very important not only for the war but also for the time after the war. Unless, Jon's bonding with a dragon is a red herring only to hint at his parentage, and Tyrion will ride Rhaegal. I have to say I was more inclined to believe that Tyrion will be the one to ride a dragon (Viserion) but after spoilers. Wonder what his role in the war will be.

Tyrion or Jon riding Drogon is a ridiculous idea, because dragon bonds with a person, and won't allow anyone else to ride him the way Dany is doing  it. She would have to die in order for this to be possible and that is very unlikely at least until the finale.

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On 2017. 06. 10. at 2:45 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

Show has the subtlety of a hammer knocking through a glass window. Olly, Shireen, RLJ etc.

They would have to need some set up in order to make it believeable and realistic. I know some folks around here hope for it and in general in fandom, but it lacks any solid evidence. Tyrion is a very important not only for the war but also for the time after the war. Unless, Jon's bonding with a dragon is a red herring only to hint at his parentage, and Tyrion will ride Rhaegal. I have to say I was more inclined to believe that Tyrion will be the one to ride a dragon (Viserion) but after spoilers. Wonder what his role in the war will be.

Tyrion or Jon riding Drogon is a ridiculous idea, because dragon bonds with a person, and won't allow anyone else to ride him the way Dany is doing  it. She would have to die in order for this to be possible and that is very unlikely at least until the finale.

The show has the same attitude towards set up as it has towards subtlety. 

I think it's pretty cheese for all three of them to ride dragons, but if that's what they decide to with, well be it. I'm fine with that as a surprise. I mean even though I like theorizing shit, I also enjoy the element of surprise and if they decide to build up the three dragonriders story or skip build up and jump straight to Tyrion and Jon being full blown Targaryens, I'm fine with either result. Of course I will grumble at the buildup or lack there of, but I'm open to possibilities Regarding this topic. 

Nobody other than Daenerys can or should ride Drogon. If somebody else rides Drogon, I'll stop watching. 

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1 minute ago, RhaenysB said:

The show has the same attitude towards set up as it has towards subtlety. 

I think it's pretty cheese for all three of them to ride dragons, but if that's what they decide to with, well be it. I'm fine with that as a surprise. I mean even though I like theorizing shit, I also enjoy the element of surprise and if they decide to build up the three dragonriders story or skip build up and jump straight to Tyrion and Jon being full blown Targaryens, I'm fine with either result. Of course I will grumble at the buildup or lack there of, but I'm open to possibilities Regarding this topic. 

Nobody other than Daenerys can or should ride Drogon. If somebody else rides Drogon, I'll stop watching. 

Yep.

Three of them won't ride dragons on the show. Bran might warg into one, he might be that powerful. They'll just simplify it into Dany and Jon being the last two Targaryen, have a child that will be the future. Tyrion is doing his best but Jon's parentage Ice&Fire.has to come into play. Tyrion being Targaryen might be just a secret in the books and never to be explained like with Jon.

Drogon is bonded to Dany for life. She can give a ride to others but not someone else to ride Drogon instead of her. Btw you would watch the show regardless, lets be honest. It's too good of a show for that, because people always said "I won't watch it" and yet they're still watching it.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Yep.

Three of them won't ride dragons on the show. Bran might warg into one, he might be that powerful. They'll just simplify it into Dany and Jon being the last two Targaryen, have a child that will be the future. Tyrion is doing his best but Jon's parentage Ice&Fire.has to come into play. Tyrion being Targaryen might be just a secret in the books and never to be explained like with Jon.

Drogon is bonded to Dany for life. She can give a ride to others but not someone else to ride Drogon instead of her. Btw you would watch the show regardless, lets be honest. It's too good of a show for that, because people always said "I won't watch it" and yet they're still watching it.

Yup, the ultimate cheese fest, Daenerys, Jon and their child. 

Yeah, I know :( I would probably still watch, but not because it's too good a show (frankly, it's not, season 6 was overflowing with fundamental flaws in storytelling), only to get bloody closure. 

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42 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Yup, the ultimate cheese fest, Daenerys, Jon and their child. 

Yeah, I know :( I would probably still watch, but not because it's too good a show (frankly, it's not, season 6 was overflowing with fundamental flaws in storytelling), only to get bloody closure. 

Cheesy it might be if it's going to end this way. I can see people saying that.

Just for the closure? The best thing about any story is the journey to the end and changes our characters underwent.

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1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Cheesy it might be if it's going to end this way. I can see people saying that.

Just for the closure? The best thing about any story is the journey to the end and changes our characters underwent.

Just for the closure. Because this journey stopped making sense in season 5.  

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On Invalid Date at 3:50 AM, Drogonthedread said:

You are going to enjoy the coming season..

Its Opposite for me the show hasn't set up the theory at all and it will come out of no where not to mention undermine RLJ. .people cab say show did give us hints about AJT but we also have people believing that Jon and sansa had romance ..so don't worry it won't happen

Lol! I was thinking the exact same thing...

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22 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Yep.

Three of them won't ride dragons on the show. Bran might warg into one, he might be that powerful. They'll just simplify it into Dany and Jon being the last two Targaryen, have a child that will be the future. Tyrion is doing his best but Jon's parentage Ice&Fire.has to come into play. Tyrion being Targaryen might be just a secret in the books and never to be explained like with Jon.

Drogon is bonded to Dany for life. She can give a ride to others but not someone else to ride Drogon instead of her. Btw you would watch the show regardless, lets be honest. It's too good of a show for that, because people always said "I won't watch it" and yet they're still watching it.

I actually think all 3 dragon will be ridden.  Just not necessarily by Dany, Jon and Tyrion.  It is an interesting debate as to who could possibly ride them though.  For one, if you believe the season 7 leaks, then

Vicerion falls during a battle north of the wall and is raised as a wight dragon by NK.  In that case, that's 1 dragon that will be ridden, right?  Drogon is already ridden by Dany obviously.  So that leaves Rhaegal.  Now, lets look at the dragons, their names, the whole scenario more closely.

Drogon is the obvious, right?  Named after Dany's first love.  He appears to be the reincarnation of Balerion, if that's possible.  Dany is his one and only rider until the death of him or her.

Then you have Vicerion and Rhaegal.  Vicerion is named after Dany's brother, which I always thought odd, especially since he did nothing to really deserve the honor of having a dragon named after him, but whatever.  She has 2 dragons named after her 2 brothers.  Makes sense to most I'm sure.  but since he is the one involved in the leaked plot point, it makes sense it would be him, and not Rhaegal. 

I think the show does a good job over the course of the whole thing in giving us hints, or reasons why either, or both, Jon and Tyrion could possibly ride dragons. Tyrion's obsession with dragons has been well documented.  Not to mention they included the scene with Tyrion talking to the dragons, them seemingly attentive and understanding of what he's saying, and then Tyrion unchaining both without being eaten like the little chicken nugget of a man he is. (joking!) I think that leaves the door open for D & D to reveal he is a secret Targ, and/or making him a dragon rider at some point.  Granted, he'd have to have a custom saddle or something of that nature to pull it off.  I'd find it a little hard to believe he could just jump on a full grown dragon bareback.  There are more breadcrumbs leading to him being a Targ as well, like Tywins charges of tyrion not being a son of his, not being able to prove he's not his son, etc. I'm just saying, the foundation is there for that to come out to justify him being able to ride a dragon, should they choose to go that route.  With his big part in leading the Battle of Blackwater against Stannis's army, I can hardly imagine he sits on the sidelines during the new Battle for the Dawn.  But I digress...

now that we know Jon is half Targ, they could easily set him up as a rider as well.  If he were going to, I'd see it being Rhaegal, the dragon named after his father.  There is of course a plot/set leak for the upcoming season that seems to show

 Jon petting Drogon, reportedly much to Dany's surprise. If this is true, it's just like Tyrion getting away with it.  That, to me, is very telling.  The signs are all there.  I can easily see a scenario where Dany and Tyrion/Jon riding dragons and fighting NK on his wight/ice dragon. Now that would truly be a dance of Ice and Fire wouldn't it?

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I actually think all 3 dragon will be ridden.  Just not necessarily by Dany, Jon and Tyrion.  It is an interesting debate as to who could possibly ride them though.  For one, if you believe the season 7 leaks, then

  Reveal hidden contents

Vicerion falls during a battle north of the wall and is raised as a wight dragon by NK.  In that case, that's 1 dragon that will be ridden, right?  Drogon is already ridden by Dany obviously.  So that leaves Rhaegal.  Now, lets look at the dragons, their names, the whole scenario more closely.

Drogon is the obvious, right?  Named after Dany's first love.  He appears to be the reincarnation of Balerion, if that's possible.  Dany is his one and only rider until the death of him or her.

Then you have Vicerion and Rhaegal.  Vicerion is named after Dany's brother, which I always thought odd, especially since he did nothing to really deserve the honor of having a dragon named after him, but whatever.  She has 2 dragons named after her 2 brothers.  Makes sense to most I'm sure.  but since he is the one involved in the leaked plot point, it makes sense it would be him, and not Rhaegal. 

I think the show does a good job over the course of the whole thing in giving us hints, or reasons why either, or both, Jon and Tyrion could possibly ride dragons. Tyrion's obsession with dragons has been well documented.  Not to mention they included the scene with Tyrion talking to the dragons, them seemingly attentive and understanding of what he's saying, and then Tyrion unchaining both without being eaten like the little chicken nugget of a man he is. (joking!) I think that leaves the door open for D & D to reveal he is a secret Targ, and/or making him a dragon rider at some point.  Granted, he'd have to have a custom saddle or something of that nature to pull it off.  I'd find it a little hard to believe he could just jump on a full grown dragon bareback.  There are more breadcrumbs leading to him being a Targ as well, like Tywins charges of tyrion not being a son of his, not being able to prove he's not his son, etc. I'm just saying, the foundation is there for that to come out to justify him being able to ride a dragon, should they choose to go that route.  With his big part in leading the Battle of Blackwater against Stannis's army, I can hardly imagine he sits on the sidelines during the new Battle for the Dawn.  But I digress...

now that we know Jon is half Targ, they could easily set him up as a rider as well.  If he were going to, I'd see it being Rhaegal, the dragon named after his father.  There is of course a plot/set leak for the upcoming season that seems to show

  Reveal hidden contents

 Jon petting Drogon, reportedly much to Dany's surprise. If this is true, it's just like Tyrion getting away with it.  That, to me, is very telling.  The signs are all there.  I can easily see a scenario where Dany and Tyrion/Jon riding dragons and fighting NK on his wight/ice dragon. Now that would truly be a dance of Ice and Fire wouldn't it?

 

Spoiler

There is very little set up to Tyrion being Targ on ts how. Missandei and Tyrion had a conversation abot dragons understanding enemy from a friend. Tywin and Tyrin talking was simply to add mor spice to it. Them both sleeping with Shae only proved they're a lot alike.

Since NK has Viserion, Dany has Drogon. tht leaves us with Rhaegal who is named after Jon's father and bond between dragon and a dragonrider is for life. He wont be ridden by anyone else. That means if Rhaegal is truly acting in a strange way when Jon is in trouble, then he'll be ridden by him. There is a rumour that when Jon is in trouble, Rhaegal senses it and goes berserker at Dragonstone throwing things at people. Also, at the wight hunt Rhaegal helps Jon at some point.

Tyrion being a Targaryen will be in the books unexplained mystery, with bunch of a hints, only Jon will be made public. Which is why show did so much for Jon and so less for Tyrion. If you compare set up for Jon and Tyrion, show made a much bigger deal about Jon's parentage, Leaks says Jon pets Drogon who is the most violent dragon, less trustwothy than his brothers which is pretty telling.

Back to Tyrion. George had a chance to debunk AJT in TWOIAF but he didn't. It will be heavily hinted upon in the book, but as I and others think never really revealed. Mystery for the fans and show will simply won't make it, because Tyrion is already serving his purpose.

 

 

@RhaenysB 

I can see why would you said this but the story improved last season and it turned out to be pretty good.

Edited by Lord Friendzone

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11 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There is very little set up to Tyrion being Targ on ts how. Missandei and Tyrion had a conversation abot dragons understanding enemy from a friend. Tywin and Tyrin talking was simply to add mor spice to it. Them both sleeping with Shae only proved they're a lot alike.

Since NK has Viserion, Dany has Drogon. tht leaves us with Rhaegal who is named after Jon's father and bond between dragon and a dragonrider is for life. He wont be ridden by anyone else. That means if Rhaegal is truly acting in a strange way when Jon is in trouble, then he'll be ridden by him. There is a rumour that when Jon is in trouble, Rhaegal senses it and goes berserker at Dragonstone throwing things at people. Also, at the wight hunt Rhaegal helps Jon at some point.

Tyrion being a Targaryen will be in the books unexplained mystery, with bunch of a hints, only Jon will be made public. Which is why show did so much for Jon and so less for Tyrion. If you compare set up for Jon and Tyrion, show made a much bigger deal about Jon's parentage, Leaks says Jon pets Drogon who is the most violent dragon, less trustwothy than his brothers which is pretty telling.

Back to Tyrion. George had a chance to debunk AJT in TWOIAF but he didn't. It will be heavily hinted upon in the book, but as I and others think never really revealed. Mystery for the fans and show will simply won't make it, because Tyrion is already serving his purpose.

 

 

@RhaenysB 

I can see why would you said this but the story improved last season and it turned out to be pretty good.

:stunned: did you watch episode 8? Or 10? Did we watch the same show? 

 

@Jaehaerys Stark

Drogon is not the reincarnation of Balerion. There's a parallel between them, since they are both the biggest dragons of three, they are both black, but that's all. Drogon is the reincarnation of Rhaego. He is the "child" born of the union of Drogo and Daenerys in the fire of Drogo's pyre, the stallion that mounts the world. 

ViSerion (ViSerys -> ViSerion) was named after Viserys because even though he was an ass, he was the only family Daenerys ever knew. 

 

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45 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

:stunned: did you watch episode 8? Or 10? Did we watch the same show? 

Yes and?

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11 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Yes and?

And I didn't think it turned out particularly good but each to their own, right? 

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57 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

And I didn't think it turned out particularly good but each to their own, right? 

I think it was decent but writing is what makes show sometimes a bit poor in he eyes of the audience. I don't blame them for teleportating or rushing things, they have to but writing is what makes it poor from time to time. I understand people's scepticism about Dany and Jon in this regard. Writing can make it look very poor. Kit's and Emilia's chemistry can only take it so far.

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2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I think it was decent but writing is what makes show sometimes a bit poor in he eyes of the audience. I don't blame them for teleportating or rushing things, they have to but writing is what makes it poor from time to time. I understand people's scepticism about Dany and Jon in this regard. Writing can make it look very poor. Kit's and Emilia's chemistry can only take it so far.

The Arya storyline was so far from reality it was basically in rosewood. Cersei was crowned queen and Jon king in less than a snap of a finger. And then I haven't even said a word about Dorne, Varys and daenerys meeting off screen or Sandra. So yeah, writing wasn't quite at the top of the game, or should I say it was at the bottom? 

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