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Darkstar’s Identity and Doran’s Plan – spoilers


Pukisbaisals

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5 hours ago, Pukisbaisals said:

Yes, but both Rhaella and Aerys look Valyrian and have no midnight streaks, so there is no way for this trait to appear in children of this couple.

Isn't it possible that Darkstar dyed his hair that way? We know dying your hair is possible in aSoIaF, so isn't it possible that he did so too? Because how on earth is a "midnight streak" possible on silver hair?

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8 hours ago, Pukisbaisals said:

Yes, but both Rhaella and Aerys look Valyrian and have no midnight streaks, so there is no way for this trait to appear in children of this couple.

Happened in the world book. Also how do you make such a blanket assumption?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/7/2017 at 5:29 AM, Pukisbaisals said:

These thoughts are based on theory that Darkstar is descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame and Daenora, raised as Dayne. To raise baby Maegor among his kinsfolk (mother of Aerion and Egg was Dayne) was the most plausible choice after Aegon V became a king.

So Darkstar is “most dangerous man in Dorne” because of his claim, which is technically better than claims of Egg’s descendants.

Theory itself described here. I want to bring some new points.

Maegor was born in 232, so he is 68 in 300, possibly still alive (and  resides in High Hermitage).

It's possible, that Maegor or his descendant was married to some Dayne cousin. It is not clear whether Daynes had some Valyrian-like features before Maegor or not. Maybe Ashara with her violet eyes was Maegor’s descendant too.

 

 

Doran's plan

Darkstar is very big inconvenience to Martells, who are allied with other branch of Targaryen - they have no need of another Targaryen claimant bonded with mighty vassal house.

Martells need to eliminate him. But they can’t just kill member of mighty vassal house and kinsman to their Targaryen allies.

 

 

 

Arianne’s plot provided nice opportunity to accuse Darkstar of maiming Myrcella. Or maybe Arianne even was manipulated in to it with only purpose – to provoke Darkstar attack Myrcella (Darkstar really hated Myrcella as a Baratheon usurper) or just frame him up doing this.

 

After maiming Myrcella all this became Darkstar-Lannister fight, Doran washed his hands clean.

 

So now he sent KG knight Balon Swan to kill Darkstar and Areo Hotah to kill Balon Swan, if he perchance learned too much. I’m not sure what is Obara’s role – may be Doran wanted get rid of her too.

 

 

If Darkstar – Brightflame theory is correct we also have some interesting implications:

 

Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar’s friend, but he had another Targaryen claimant right in his House. Was Arthur truly loyal to Rhaegar?

 

There are some hints that Daenerys is not who she thinks (lemon tree).  If there indeed  baby swap took place and Daynes were involved in this, then probably Maegor’s descendants were also involved. Maybe in most direct way – I mean Dany can be descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame. Thus she possibly is younger sister, cousin or niece of Darkstar.

 

Quite a change for Dany: instead Mad King as father, she has crazy Aerion Brightflame as (great) grandfather, instead good brother Viserys, nice brother Darkstar :D.

 

You had me until you walked into the lemon grove. 

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Uhhhhhhhhh,  it'd be a nice sexual twist (societally progressive development for westeros)  if the lie she slays is her own princess claim:   'See fAegon here?  Your golden boy, He's fake.  Me?  Just as phony.  We're not the real rulers you should have by law.    It should be them. ' [Points at the petty fool lords assembled to whip the commoners into a rage to oust the faux targs from power. ]    'What a shame, though, since you clearly love us better for getting rid of cersei and improving your living conditions..... to think that these rightful rulers want to take that away from you and plunge the realm back into mediocrity so they can enjoy their birthright by pooping on your newfound renaisance.   That's a shame, isn't  it.  And who knows what horrorz this Stardark might bring if you seat him atop the high hill, can't  you feel his hatred of you ?  He can't even keep it out of his gaze as he glowers over you now, look at him!    I find myself wishing to stay on as your protector despite what the law decrees, don't you?  Because hasn't there been enough blood shed within this city?   Isn't it time we stood together back to back and declared as our true enemies those lords who would ruin our lives with their infighting and tyranny?   I mean, if you'll have me, that is....'

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Just a thought. Doran knows who Darkstar is and uses him to do the dirty job. The mission to High Hermitage is a trap for Balon Swan (and perhaps Obara). Darkstar has left to find Myrcella and kill her on road to King's Landing (as Cersei planned to happen with Trystane). I believe that Darkstar was the one who informed Doran about the Queenmaker plot. 

 

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3 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

Just a thought. Doran knows who Darkstar is and uses him to do the dirty job. The mission to High Hermitage is a trap for Balon Swan (and perhaps Obara). Darkstar has left to find Myrcella and kill her on road to King's Landing (as Cersei planned to happen with Trystane). I believe that Darkstar was the one who informed Doran about the Queenmaker plot. 

 

A question. What could Doran possibly gain by having war between Dorne and the Iron Throne forced upon him? It makes sense for the Darkstar to force this war, in a crazy, agent of chaos kind of way, IF he is the descendant of Maegor, Aerion's son, that many of us think he is, but why would Doran need such a subterfuge if he wants a war? If that was the case, all he has to do is call his bannermen and march north. No, need for trapping Balon Swan, just seize him and throw him in the dungeon, or chop off his head.

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5 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

Just a thought. Doran knows who Darkstar is and uses him to do the dirty job. The mission to High Hermitage is a trap for Balon Swan (and perhaps Obara). Darkstar has left to find Myrcella and kill her on road to King's Landing (as Cersei planned to happen with Trystane). I believe that Darkstar was the one who informed Doran about the Queenmaker plot. 

 

I don't see Doran killing his niece. 

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I enjoyed the theory about Maegor being fostered with House Dayne, certainly a lot of fun. Could it be that Egg sent his young nephew to live with Dyanna Dayne and had the boy legally declared a member of Dyanna's House? Egg and his advisors would surley be aware that young Maegor Targaryen would be a great randsom to any potential kidnapper, and if said kidnapper was of the Blackfyre mindset, the son of Aerion Brightflame could be raised to become a very real threat indeed. What might Bloodraven's council been? Maegor had a stronger claim than Egg, after all, so would raising him at court be the wisest choice? Changing the young prince's name and having him raised a Dayne may have been the wisest course during such politically charged times.

I'm firmly of the opinion that the Daynes naming their newest castle "High Hermitage" has some significance, and the cadet branch of Hose Dayne being of Targaryen origin would certainly fit.

I do believe that Doran and Gerold are working together. The following conversation from "The Watcher" always seemed like proof that Gerold is on The Martell's side.

"The Sand Snakes looked at one another. "Darkstar?"
"Darkstar did it," his little princess said. "He tried to kill Princess Myrcella too. As she will tell Ser Balon."
Nym smiled. "That part at least is true."
 
"It is all true," said the prince, with a wince of pain. Is it his gout that hurts him, or the lie? "And now Ser Gerold has fled back to High Hermitage, beyond our reach."
"Darkstar," Tyene murmured, with a giggle. "Why not? It is all his doing. But will Ser Balon believe it?"
"He will if he hears it from Myrcella," Arianne insisted."
 
So when the idea that Gerold tried to kill Myrcella is broached to the Sandsnakes, the three sisters look at one another and say, in unison "Darkstar" - like something out of Scooby Doo. Nym and Tyene then both reply with varying degrees of laughter. This most likely shows that Darkstar is familiar with Oberyn's daughters, and the Sand Snakes view Darkstar's guilt in attacking Myrcella/killing Arys as so unlikely that they would find the suggestion humouros.
 
Tyene's response of "Why not? it is all his doing" also has rather comedic overtones, but are the Sandsnakes merely laughing at the convoluted madness being presented to them or are they perhaps finding humour in the idea that Doran would ever allow Gerold to be punished
 
That Arianne would wonder if her father's lie about Darkstar's guilt was the potential cause for his pain must act as proof that Doran and Gerold have at some point established a positive relationship.
 
 
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On 6/7/2017 at 2:29 AM, Pukisbaisals said:

These thoughts are based on theory that Darkstar is descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame and Daenora, raised as Dayne. To raise baby Maegor among his kinsfolk (mother of Aerion and Egg was Dayne) was the most plausible choice after Aegon V became a king.

So Darkstar is “most dangerous man in Dorne” because of his claim, which is technically better than claims of Egg’s descendants.

Theory itself described here. I want to bring some new points.

Maegor was born in 232, so he is 68 in 300, possibly still alive (and  resides in High Hermitage).

It's possible, that Maegor or his descendant was married to some Dayne cousin. It is not clear whether Daynes had some Valyrian-like features before Maegor or not. Maybe Ashara with her violet eyes was Maegor’s descendant too.

 

 

Doran's plan

Darkstar is very big inconvenience to Martells, who are allied with other branch of Targaryen - they have no need of another Targaryen claimant bonded with mighty vassal house.

Martells need to eliminate him. But they can’t just kill member of mighty vassal house and kinsman to their Targaryen allies.

 

 

 

Arianne’s plot provided nice opportunity to accuse Darkstar of maiming Myrcella. Or maybe Arianne even was manipulated in to it with only purpose – to provoke Darkstar attack Myrcella (Darkstar really hated Myrcella as a Baratheon usurper) or just frame him up doing this.

 

After maiming Myrcella all this became Darkstar-Lannister fight, Doran washed his hands clean.

 

So now he sent KG knight Balon Swan to kill Darkstar and Areo Hotah to kill Balon Swan, if he perchance learned too much. I’m not sure what is Obara’s role – may be Doran wanted get rid of her too.

 

 

If Darkstar – Brightflame theory is correct we also have some interesting implications:

 

Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar’s friend, but he had another Targaryen claimant right in his House. Was Arthur truly loyal to Rhaegar?

 

There are some hints that Daenerys is not who she thinks (lemon tree).  If there indeed  baby swap took place and Daynes were involved in this, then probably Maegor’s descendants were also involved. Maybe in most direct way – I mean Dany can be descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame. Thus she possibly is younger sister, cousin or niece of Darkstar.

 

Quite a change for Dany: instead Mad King as father, she has crazy Aerion Brightflame as (great) grandfather, instead good brother Viserys, nice brother Darkstar :D.

 

 

GRRM has stated the Daynes do not owe their silver hair and purple eyes to the Valyrians. They've been that way for thousands of years, before the freehold was established. 

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18 minutes ago, Lady Maester said:

 

GRRM has stated the Daynes do not owe their silver hair and purple eyes to the Valyrians. They've been that way for thousands of years, before the freehold was established. 

That doesn't rule out Gerold having a drop of dragon blood, especialky with that streak. 

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On 6/12/2017 at 9:08 AM, Nocturne said:

This will be a bit random, but i seriously hate his nickname, its so freaking cheesy.

I think this is the point.  He's an emo, watered down Batman.  All his lines are ridiculous.

I suspect he was supposed to figure into the story more prominently when Edric Dayne was being groomed for a major secondary role, and as the five year gap was abandoned and GRRMs story shifted focus, he similarly lost his reason to be around.

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On 6/7/2017 at 5:29 AM, Pukisbaisals said:

These thoughts are based on theory that Darkstar is descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame and Daenora, raised as Dayne. To raise baby Maegor among his kinsfolk (mother of Aerion and Egg was Dayne) was the most plausible choice after Aegon V became a king.

So Darkstar is “most dangerous man in Dorne” because of his claim, which is technically better than claims of Egg’s descendants.

Theory itself described here. I want to bring some new points.

Maegor was born in 232, so he is 68 in 300, possibly still alive (and  resides in High Hermitage).

It's possible, that Maegor or his descendant was married to some Dayne cousin. It is not clear whether Daynes had some Valyrian-like features before Maegor or not. Maybe Ashara with her violet eyes was Maegor’s descendant too.

 

 

Doran's plan

Darkstar is very big inconvenience to Martells, who are allied with other branch of Targaryen - they have no need of another Targaryen claimant bonded with mighty vassal house.

Martells need to eliminate him. But they can’t just kill member of mighty vassal house and kinsman to their Targaryen allies.

 

 

 

Arianne’s plot provided nice opportunity to accuse Darkstar of maiming Myrcella. Or maybe Arianne even was manipulated in to it with only purpose – to provoke Darkstar attack Myrcella (Darkstar really hated Myrcella as a Baratheon usurper) or just frame him up doing this.

 

After maiming Myrcella all this became Darkstar-Lannister fight, Doran washed his hands clean.

 

So now he sent KG knight Balon Swan to kill Darkstar and Areo Hotah to kill Balon Swan, if he perchance learned too much. I’m not sure what is Obara’s role – may be Doran wanted get rid of her too.

 

 

If Darkstar – Brightflame theory is correct we also have some interesting implications:

I will have to agree with Midnight Confession.  There is only one way for Darkstart to be as dangerous as Doran believes him to be.  If he is a bastard of Aerys on some Dornish woman.  Probably not just any woman but a noblewoman.  

 

Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar’s friend, but he had another Targaryen claimant right in his House. Was Arthur truly loyal to Rhaegar?

Arthur Dayne was loyal to King Aerys.  If Arthur has any role in this, he probably witnessed Aerys and Darkstar's mother together.  I.e., he knows about the king's affairs.  He may have let some of the secret out over drinks with Rhaegar.   Alcohol can do that to the best of men.  

There are some hints that Daenerys is not who she thinks (lemon tree).  If there indeed  baby swap took place and Daynes were involved in this, then probably Maegor’s descendants were also involved. Maybe in most direct way – I mean Dany can be descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame. Thus she possibly is younger sister, cousin or niece of Darkstar.

That is doubtful.  Daenerys is precisely who she is.  Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen.  Born on Dragonstone to Queen Rhaella.  Heir to the throne of Westeros.  The Unburnt.  The Mother of Dragons.  Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea.  Princess of Dragonstone.  The Most Beautiful Woman in the World.  Breaker of Chains.  

Besides, her prestige is not diminished even if her father is not King Aerys.  She woke dragons from stone.  She led a tiny khalasar through the blistering Dothraki Waste to safety.  Millions of ex-slaves are free because of her.  She's a dragon rider.  That's more prestige than any Targaryen ever had in history.   

 

Quite a change for Dany: instead Mad King as father, she has crazy Aerion Brightflame as (great) grandfather, instead good brother Viserys, nice brother Darkstar :D.

 

 

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  • 11 months later...

Update

 

Darkstar was probably Arianne's lover, at least this thread states so. Anyway, she was fascinated by him:

Quote

If there was a handsomer man in Dorne, she did not know him.

And she was thinking of him  as of suitable consort:

Quote

He is highborn enough to make a worthy consort, she thought. Father would question my good sense, but our children would be as beautiful as dragonlords.

Arianne was secretly betrothed to Viserys, so her marriage with Targ of rival branch had to be Doran's worst nightmare. Another reason to get rid of Darkstar, but it was also important to discredit him in Arianne's eyes.

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