Darkstar’s Identity and Doran’s Plan – spoilers

[Pukisbaisals]

These thoughts are based on theory that Darkstar is descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame and Daenora, raised as Dayne. To raise baby Maegor among his kinsfolk (mother of Aerion and Egg was Dayne) was the most plausible choice after Aegon V became a king.

So Darkstar is “most dangerous man in Dorne” because of his claim, which is technically better than claims of Egg’s descendants.

Theory itself described here. I want to bring some new points.

Maegor was born in 232, so he is 68 in 300, possibly still alive (and  resides in High Hermitage).

It's possible, that Maegor or his descendant was married to some Dayne cousin. It is not clear whether Daynes had some Valyrian-like features before Maegor or not. Maybe Ashara with her violet eyes was Maegor’s descendant too.

 

Doran's plan

Darkstar is very big inconvenience to Martells, who are allied with other branch of Targaryen - they have no need of another Targaryen claimant bonded with mighty vassal house.

Martells need to eliminate him. But they can’t just kill member of mighty vassal house and kinsman to their Targaryen allies.

 

Arianne’s plot provided nice opportunity to accuse Darkstar of maiming Myrcella. Or maybe Arianne even was manipulated in to it with only purpose – to provoke Darkstar attack Myrcella (Darkstar really hated Myrcella as a Baratheon usurper) or just frame him up doing this.

After maiming Myrcella all this became Darkstar-Lannister fight, Doran washed his hands clean.

So now he sent KG knight Balon Swan to kill Darkstar and Areo Hotah to kill Balon Swan, if he perchance learned too much. I’m not sure what is Obara’s role – may be Doran wanted get rid of her too.

If Darkstar – Brightflame theory is correct we also have some interesting implications:

Arthur Dayne was Rhaegar’s friend, but he had another Targaryen claimant right in his House. Was Arthur truly loyal to Rhaegar?

There are some hints that Daenerys is not who she thinks (lemon tree).  If there indeed  baby swap took place and Daynes were involved in this, then probably Maegor’s descendants were also involved. Maybe in most direct way – I mean Dany can be descendant of Maegor, son of Aerion Brightflame. Thus she possibly is younger sister, cousin or niece of Darkstar.

Quite a change for Dany: instead Mad King as father, she has crazy Aerion Brightflame as (great) grandfather, instead good brother Viserys, nice brother Darkstar .

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Aw but how can he be a Bright-flame when he is of "of the night?"

[Seams]

I like this. I'm in favor of interesting and complicated plot twists that grow out of book-based evidence.

3 hours ago, Pukisbaisals said:

So now he sent KG knight Balon Swan to kill Darkstar and Areo Hotah to kill Balon Swan, if he perchance learned too much. I’m not sure what is Obara’s role – may be Doran wanted get rid of her too.

I'm kind of a Johnny-one-note about this, so I apologize to all who hate the symbolism stuff, but it recently occurred to me that Obara could be part of the boar symbolism in the books (through wordplay - Obara = A boar). A boar is often present at the death of a king.

[Pukisbaisals]

I just realized that Jon Arryn was quite close relative to Maegor. Alys Arryn, wife or Rhaegel most likely was sister to Jon’s father Jasper Arryn (or maybe his young aunt). Daenora, mother of Maegor, was born between 211 and 216, Jon was born between 218 and 220, so they most likely were first cousins.

This also means that descendants of Maegor are in line to inherit the Vale after Sweetrobin and Harry the Heir. We don’t know if Alys Arryn had other brothers or elder sister, if so, their descendants would be also ahead in the succession line.

 

This kinship to Maegor makes me question loyalties and plans of Jon Arryn. Was he really loyal to Robert or just used him to bring down line of Aegon V Targaryen?

After murder of princess Elia Oberyn attempted to raise army in Dorne. Jon Arryn somehow persuaded Martells not to fight.  Did he promise them that Robert’s reign will be short?

[867-5309]

Darkstar's connection would have to be of more recent vintage to have any danger.  Kinship dating back to the days of Aegon V is hard to prove and people's memories have already faded.  A piece of parchment is not going to be good enough in this case.  Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne because he is a bastard of King Aerys.  Yes, bastards cannot inherit even if they are the king's bastard.  However, that doesn't mean he can't gather enough discontented Dornishmen to his cause and rebel against Tommen Baratheon.  That would pull Dorne into a war that they cannot win.  Darkstar can make trouble for the Martells because they don't intend to back a bastard with no claim to the throne.  Doran cannot put Arianne on the iron throne but he can lay the ground work to put his nephew on it.  His Martell blood would forever run in the veins of future rulers of westeros.  You do not want to build the new dynasty from a bastard like Darkstar who took the throne by force of arms.  Usurping the throne is not the best way to do it.  Besides, an Aegon + Arianne ensures their children would be more Martell than Targaryen.  That is how Doran plans to put his family on the throne.  Darkstar may be part Dornish but he is not Martell.  Aegon is half Martell.  Darkstar is a threat because he could drag the blood thirsty people in Dorne to war.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

2 hours ago, Midnight Confession said:

Darkstar's connection would have to be of more recent vintage to have any danger.  Kinship dating back to the days of Aegon V is hard to prove and people's memories have already faded.  A piece of parchment is not going to be good enough in this case.  Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne because he is a bastard of King Aerys.  Yes, bastards cannot inherit even if they are the king's bastard.  However, that doesn't mean he can't gather enough discontented Dornishmen to his cause and rebel against Tommen Baratheon.  That would pull Dorne into a war that they cannot win.  Darkstar can make trouble for the Martells because they don't intend to back a bastard with no claim to the throne.  Doran cannot put Arianne on the iron throne but he can lay the ground work to put his nephew on it.  His Martell blood would forever run in the veins of future rulers of westeros.  You do not want to build the new dynasty from a bastard like Darkstar who took the throne by force of arms.  Usurping the throne is not the best way to do it.  Besides, an Aegon + Arianne ensures their children would be more Martell than Targaryen.  That is how Doran plans to put his family on the throne.  Darkstar may be part Dornish but he is not Martell.  Aegon is half Martell.  Darkstar is a threat because he could drag the blood thirsty people in Dorne to war.

There is a theory that Darkstar is actually Jaehaerys Targaryen, Aerys II's and Rhaella's sixth child and fourth son.

[Weirwood Ghost]

To invite Darkstar as a character to the novels at this point was brilliant, he's such shit stirrer. He's not a direct threat but he has to be an underling to a major player...I wonder maybe Illyrio or Varys but that's almost defaulting to the obvious. But the Dayne connection makes the Dayne family implication VERY interesting. I hadn't considered Maegor could still be alive...not sure what I think of that, isn't he meant to be 100 years ago in the timeline?

 

[Nocturne]

This will be a bit random, but i seriously hate his nickname, its so freaking cheesy.

[Pukisbaisals]

8 hours ago, Weirwood Ghost said:

 I hadn't considered Maegor could still be alive...not sure what I think of that, isn't he meant to be 100 years ago in the timeline?

 

Aegon V was crowned  in 233, Maegor was infant then. According TWoIAF Maegor was born in 232, so he had to be only 68 in 300.

[Lord Wraith]

On 6/10/2017 at 11:19 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

There is a theory that Darkstar is actually Jaehaerys Targaryen, Aerys II's and Rhaella's sixth child and fourth son.

Yup I like it. Plausible but still not likely certainly fun to think about. The World Book drops the hints so heavily it hurts.

[Pukisbaisals]

On 2017-06-11 at 6:19 AM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

There is a theory that Darkstar is actually Jaehaerys Targaryen, Aerys II's and Rhaella's sixth child and fourth son.

But if Jahaerys survived, how did he get to the House of Dayne? Ashara Dayne came to the court much later, after marriage of Elia and Rhaegar in 280. Princess of Dorne was close to queen Rhaella and could help to hide the child, but Martells and Daynes didn‘t look to be friendly. Also, if Princess of Dorne asked Daynes to hide the baby it would be difficult to explain why Doran and Oberyn hated Darsktar.

I think Princess of Dorne would had hidden baby Jahaerys in one of most loyal houses, probably posed as a bastard.

Also, it‘s very unlikely for Rhaella to have a lover after 270, because since then she was confined in Maegor‘s holdfast and two septas shared her bed every night.

If Jahaerys nonetheless was fathered by Rhaella‘s lover (let’s say he was of KG), then the cases of elder children were even more suspicious.

For example, Aegon (born in 272, died in 273) was believed to be born 2 months premature. Maybe he just was conceived 2 months earlier than it was possible with Aerys?

Daeron (born in 269) lived for half of year (similar to Aegon and Jahaerys), at that time Rhaella was not yet confined and septas were not pinned on her.

Princess Shaena was born in 267 (stillborn), when Aerys with all his court resided in Casterly Rock and Rhaella was left in Kings Landing – nice opportunity to swap babies if needed.

[Lord Wraith]

17 minutes ago, Pukisbaisals said:

But if Jahaerys survived, how did he get to the House of Dayne? Ashara Dayne came to the court much later, after marriage of Elia and Rhaegar in 280. Princess of Dorne was close to queen Rhaella and could help to hide the child, but Martells and Daynes didn‘t look to be friendly. Also, if Princess of Dorne asked Daynes to hide the baby it would be difficult to explain why Doran and Oberyn hated Darsktar.

I think Princess of Dorne would had hidden baby Jahaerys in one of most loyal houses, probably posed as a bastard.

Also, it‘s very unlikely for Rhaella to have a lover after 270, because since then she was confined in Maegor‘s holdfast and two septas shared her bed every night.

If Jahaerys nonetheless was fathered by Rhaella‘s lover (let’s say he was of KG), then the cases of elder children were even more suspicious.

For example, Aegon (born in 272, died in 273) was believed to be born 2 months premature. Maybe he just was conceived 2 months earlier than it was possible with Aerys?

Daeron (born in 269) lived for half of year (similar to Aegon and Jahaerys), at that time Rhaella was not yet confined and septas were not pinned on her.

Princess Shaena was born in 267 (stillborn), when Aerys with all his court resided in Casterly Rock and Rhaella was left in Kings Landing – nice opportunity to swap babies if needed.

Why Dayne? Well kind of hard to hide a Targaryen looking kid anywhere in Westeros because they have a very distinct look. House Dayne is one of the few places that look wouldn't appear out of place. Also interesting how Arthur Dayne becomes best friends with the crown prince. Then later brings his sister to court. Almost like the Dayne's did something that got them royal favor.

In this theory IMO he is the trueborn son of Aerys and Rhaelle. Rhaelle knowing how crazy Aerys was becoming faked Jaehaerys death and blamed it on his mistress. This keeps the child save and would lead to Aerys womanizing ways.

 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Clink ,clink . There are my two cents , I have a tinfoil theory  that Darkstar is descended from Davos Dayne and under Westeros law the rightful ruler of Dorne .

[Seams]

8 hours ago, Pukisbaisals said:

But if Jahaerys survived, how did he get to the House of Dayne? 

I think there's a powerful "hiding in plain sight" force in Westeros called the Silent Sisters. They deliver bodies over long distances and probably could have hidden a baby pretty easily to smuggle it away from crazy father or from whoever was poisoning the royal babies.

The choice of destination might be as @Lord Wraith points out, determined by the best place for a silver-haired child to blend in. (Although we've obviously seen head shaving and hair dying as disguise techniques.)

Maybe we will eventually learn something about how Darkstar's minor branch of the Dayne family is not actually a branch of the Dayne family at all. Probably House Dayne and maybe the Martells just had to give permission to set up a fake branch of the family as a cover for raising the hidden child. I think there may be several instances of this kind of hidden identity sponsored by Jon Arryn, including Ser Mandon Moore and Hugh of the Vale. (I don't think Mandon and Hugh are hidden Targs, but I suspect there are aspects of their identities that were hidden from the court and/or from readers.) If the theories in this forum are correct, we see Littlefinger doing something like this with the Kettleblacks, too - legitimizing their identities as the lord from their area. I suspect that Ned Stark was protecting some secret identities within his own household as well.

[Pukisbaisals]

12 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

In this theory IMO he is the trueborn son of Aerys and Rhaelle.

Midnight streak in Darkstar's hair shows that he has some non - Valyrian ancestry.

12 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Rhaelle knowing how crazy Aerys was becoming faked Jaehaerys death and blamed it on his mistress. This keeps the child save and would lead to Aerys womanizing ways.

Or mistress of Aerys indeed was poisoning children and Rhaella knew but couldn’t prove it to Aerys, so she saved her child by her own means.

In general I like the idea about Jahaerys being alive (or his brother Aegon or Daeron). Still I think Darkstar = descendant of Maegor theory is more reasonable.

There is another mysterious character of possible Targaryen origin – Daario Naharis. Maybe he is not Blackfyre (no known connections to Golden company or Varys), but swapped (perhaps with help of Princess of Dorne and Oberyn) son of Rhaella (fathered by her lover?). Then he is (half-) brother to Daenerys (if she is daughter of Aerys and Rhaella) and we have classic Targaryen incest case. Affiliations of Daario with Targaryens and Martells discussed here and here.

There is also some parallel between bastard Daemon Sand/ Arianne and Daario Naharis/ Daenerys.

[Pukisbaisals]

7 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

 theory  that Darkstar is descended from Davos Dayne and under Westeros law the rightful ruler of Dorne .

He could be both if Maegor’s daughter married Dayne.

[Pukisbaisals]

On 2017-06-11 at 3:24 AM, Midnight Confession said:

  Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne because he is a bastard of King Aerys. 

Darkstar maybe not bastard of Aerys, but in fact we are short of Aerys's bastards.

Aerys had many mistresses:

Quote

Some say he had as many mistresses as his ancestor Aegon the Unworthy (a most unlikely assertion given all we know of that monarch). Unlike Aegon IV, however, Aerys II always seemed to lose interest in his lovers quickly. Many lasted no longer than a fortnight and few as long as half a year.

(TWoIaF, Aerys II).

Even if this is exaggeration, Aerys still should have legions of bastards. Most of them don't have Valyrian look, because firstborns of Targaryen men and non-Valyrian women look non Valyrian. So they not so easy to spot.

So far the only suspected bastards - Jaime and Cersei, Tyrion, Elia, Oberyn. But  there were some mistresses from lesser houses, possibly also commoners. Where are their bastards?

[Lord Wraith]

5 hours ago, Pukisbaisals said:

Midnight streak in Darkstar's hair shows that he has some non - Valyrian ancestry.

Well obviously the current ancestry of House Targaryen is a mixture of Dayne, Blackwood, and Targaryen.

 

10 hours ago, Seams said:

I think there's a powerful "hiding in plain sight" force in Westeros called the Silent Sisters. They deliver bodies over long distances and probably could have hidden a baby pretty easily to smuggle it away from crazy father or from whoever was poisoning the royal babies.

The choice of destination might be as @Lord Wraith points out, determined by the best place for a silver-haired child to blend in. (Although we've obviously seen head shaving and hair dying as disguise techniques.)

Maybe we will eventually learn something about how Darkstar's minor branch of the Dayne family is not actually a branch of the Dayne family at all. Probably House Dayne and maybe the Martells just had to give permission to set up a fake branch of the family as a cover for raising the hidden child. I think there may be several instances of this kind of hidden identity sponsored by Jon Arryn, including Ser Mandon Moore and Hugh of the Vale. (I don't think Mandon and Hugh are hidden Targs, but I suspect there are aspects of their identities that were hidden from the court and/or from readers.) If the theories in this forum are correct, we see Littlefinger doing something like this with the Kettleblacks, too - legitimizing their identities as the lord from their area. I suspect that Ned Stark was protecting some secret identities within his own household as well.

Interesting notion on the silent sisters.

The problem is there is no other known members of the House Dayne of High Hermitage. If Martin has the Dayne family tree and there is nothing to hide why wasn't it in the back of AFFC?

Also there is a distinct lack of branch houses in Dorne from what I can remember.

[Pukisbaisals]

19 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Well obviously the current ancestry of House Targaryen is a mixture of Dayne, Blackwood, and Targaryen.

 

Yes, but both Rhaella and Aerys look Valyrian and have no midnight streaks, so there is no way for this trait to appear in children of this couple.

[The Mother of The Others]

On 6/7/2017 at 2:36 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Aw but how can he be a Bright-flame when he is of "of the night?"

It would be an uphill battle.    Emotionally.   Psychologically.  This guy needs a shot in the arm just like this though, to justify the dorne plotline we've already endured.  And Danny is closer to tonguing a Stark this way.