Heresy 199 Once upon a Time in the West

[LynnS]

38 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Still, I like the idea of Lyanna ending up on the Quiet Isle.

That would cover the born amidst salt and smoke version of the prophecy:  the Saltpans and smoking beehives.  Somewhat different from Dany reborn amidst salt tears and smoke, when the stars bleed.   Or Bran who was blessed with a salt tear when he passed the Black Gate and Jon who dies with his blood smoking in the cold air.   Jon is yet to be reborn in salt and smoke... salt blocks aplenty at Castle Black which also features a smoke house.  LOL

[Frey family reunion]

6 hours ago, LynnS said:

I think Lyanna died the day Robert celebrated his victories over Summerhall and Ned was on his way from the Vale to Winterfell and found her on the Quiet Isle.  Those who found him with her...  the Silent Brothers.   But we shall see, eventually.

While I agree that the Quiet Isle is a likely spot for Lyanna's death, I thought Eddard headed directly from the Fingers to White Harbor, he would not have come to the Quiet Isle at that time, would he have?

[PrettyPig]

1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

While I agree that the Quiet Isle is a likely spot for Lyanna's death, I thought Eddard headed directly from the Fingers to White Harbor, he would not have come to the Quiet Isle at that time, would he have?

You will enjoy my Fisherman's Daughter essay that I am working on right now for an upcoming Heresy.

[WeKnowNothing]

5 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Baristan Selmy and Prince Lewyn and a third whose name I can't remember were all at the Trident. The impression I get throughout the narrative is that while the Kings Guard do have a partly ceremonial role in protecting the King's body, they are also his trusted servants and agents, and yes a military command is consistent with that.

Barristan Selmy, Lewyn Martell and Jonthor Darry all went with Rhaegar to the trident. Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent and Lord Commander Gerold Hightower stayed to guard over Lyanna and Jon at the tower of joy. Whilst Jaime and the city watch guards stayed in Kings Landing to protect Aeys, Elia and her kids. 

They generally order the kingsguard to either guard family members/heirs and so on or command forces in war. Like in the Battle of the Blackwater, they had some kingsguard out in the field, whilst others were guarding Jofferey or Tommen. 

its often implied the importance of kingsguard to protect heirs or close family throughout the book. Because of this, most argue that the presence of three kingsguard at the tower of joy proves that Jon must be legitimate, otherwise they would never have even there in the first place.

[Frey family reunion]

2 minutes ago, WeKnowNothing said:

Barristan Selmy, Lewyn Martell and Jonthor Darry all went with Rhaegar to the trident. Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent and Lord Commander Gerold Hightower stayed to guard over Lyanna and Jon at the tower of joy. Whilst Jaime and the city watch guards stayed in Kings Landing to protect Aeys, Elia and her kids. 

They generally order the kingsguard to either guard family members/heirs and so on or command forces in war. Like in the Battle of the Blackwater, they had some kingsguard out in the field, whilst others were guarding Jofferey or Tommen. 

its often implied the importance of kingsguard to protect heirs or close family throughout the book. Because of this, most argue that the presence of three kingsguard at the tower of joy proves that Jon must be legitimate, otherwise they would never have even there in the first place.

Yet not one Kingsguard was found in Aegon's bedroom, who would have been the actual heir, notwithstanding Jon's "legitimacy".

More and more, I'm coming to the opinion that Rhaegar's son, Aegon was at the tower of joy, and Aegon remains alive and well in the current series.

[JNR]

6 hours ago, LynnS said:

I think Lyanna died the day Robert celebrated his victories over Summerhall and Ned was on his way from the Vale to Winterfell and found her on the Quiet Isle.

How did Howland get into this scene?

The fact that Howland

1) Was with Ned at the ToJ, one of two survivors of the fight, and also

2) Was with Ned when Lyanna died

...has always been part of the case that Lyanna died at the ToJ.

[JNR]

14 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Very logical, yes.  And why on earth would GRRM reveal that to us in the text, when his aim is to keep us in the dark?

I don't think that is his aim, though.  I think his aim is to make his mysteries difficult to solve, but also possible to solve (albeit rarely with complete certainty).  You can often see this reflected in specific cases in interviews.

For instance, this from Rolling Stone:

Quote

Martin: Who kills Joffrey? 

Rolling Stone: That killing apparently happens early in this fourth season. The Song of Ice and Fire books, of course, are well past the poisoning of King Joffrey. 

Martin: In the books — and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal — the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa’s hair net, so that if anyone actually did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it.

GRRM asked this because it's one of the easier mysteries to solve and he thought or hoped the interviewer would say Olenna was the murderer.  Sadly, such did not happen, but it could have.

As GRRM implies, the books never conclusively establish that Olenna was the mastermind of Joffrey's murder... but as GRRM also says, the careful reader can work it out from various factors. 

She had a powerful motive; she had learned of Joffrey's true nature in the scene where she quizzes Sansa and Sansa explicitly says Joffrey is a monster; and in the murder scene itself, we get:

Quote

"You do look quite exquisite, child," Lady Olenna Tyrell told Sansa when she tottered up to them in a cloth-of-gold gown that must have weighed more than she did. "The wind has been at your hair, though." The little old woman reached up and fussed at the loose strands, tucking them back into place and straightening Sansa's hair net. "I was very sorry to hear about your losses," she said as she tugged and fiddled.

Add it all up and yes, it's subtle.

But it was enough for me, and GRRM thinks it's enough for "the careful reader," and I agree with him.  I think all his major mysteries work this way.

[Frey family reunion]

13 minutes ago, JNR said:

How did Howland get into this scene?

The fact that Howland

1) Was with Ned at the ToJ, one of two survivors of the fight, and also

2) Was with Ned when Lyanna died

...has always been part of the case that Lyanna died at the ToJ.

I think the obvious answer is that Lyanna told Ned something on her deathbed that led him on the path to the tower of joy.  Since Howland was one of those present with Ned he was in this inner circle which led them to the tower of joy.

My guess is that Rhaegar was interested in Lyanna's child as opposed to Lyanna, and it was her child that Ned and Howland were searching for.

[JNR]

4 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think the obvious answer is that Lyanna told Ned something on her deathbed that led him on the path to the tower of joy.

That still doesn't explain how Howland came to join Ned before Ned had even made his way to the Bite, after the Rebellion began.

Sequence was:

1. Arryn calls banners

2. Ned makes his way to Winterfell to call his own banners by proceeding north over the mountains of the Vale

The suggestion was:

14 minutes ago, JNR said:

Lyanna died the day Robert celebrated his victories over Summerhall and Ned was on his way from the Vale to Winterfell and found her on the Quiet Isle

So this would require Howland to have joined Ned before he had even made his way to the Bite.  Long before Ned called his banners and went south. 

Because we know Howland was with Ned when Lyanna died:

Quote

They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his.

Also, of course, the Quiet Isle is south of the Vale of Arryn.  I'm not sure why Ned would have gone south at all, when his goal was to go north, to get to Winterfell to call his banners to support the Rebellion.

[Frey family reunion]

4 minutes ago, JNR said:

That still doesn't explain how Howland came to join Ned before Ned had even made his way to the Bite, after the Rebellion began.

Sequence was:

1. Arryn calls banners

2. Ned makes his way to Winterfell to call his own banners by proceeding north over the mountains of the Vale

The suggestion was:

So this would require Howland to have joined Ned before he had even made his way to the Bite.  Long before Ned called his banners and went south. 

Because we know Howland was with Ned when Lyanna died:

Also, of course, the Quiet Isle is south of the Vale of Arryn.  I'm not sure why Ned would have gone south at all, when his goal was to go north, to get to Winterfell to call his banners to support the Rebellion.

No I agree with you, I think Lyanna's death probably happened a little later, shortly before the Battle of the Trident.  I think Howland joined up with Ned when he was in the Riverlands around the time of his marriage to Cat.  Perhaps it was Howland who led Ned to Lyanna.  

[ReturnOfCaponBreath]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Actually I disagree ...(snipped for brevity)

The context Of The quote that Jon's mother left little of herself in him is missing and very important.

Brandon's reactions had all of the following rationales:

1 he is a hot head

2 he has "Southern ambitions" that, whatever they are, are surely not helped by Rhaegars choice of Lyanna as QOL&B when he is married to a Dornish princess.

3 the reason cited in the text. He considersed it a slight on his sisters honour.

Any combination of these 3 is highly plausible and require a lot less of a leap of faith than an incestuous child with his sister.

You may be right about the power of Kings blood. What we know is that the Starks haven't been Kings in the North for 300 years and the (only?) person who tells is there is power in kingsblood is Mel so it's possible that she is wrong and your interpretation is more accurate there just isn't much to back up either view.

[WeKnowNothing]

33 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Yet not one Kingsguard was found in Aegon's bedroom, who would have been the actual heir, notwithstanding Jon's "legitimacy".

More and more, I'm coming to the opinion that Rhaegar's son, Aegon was at the tower of joy, and Aegon remains alive and well in the current series.

Kings landing was never meant to be sacked at this time, and no one expected a sack either. Ned expected to take the city peacefully (in a seige-way), but obviously Tywin beat him to that. Technically, those three kingsguard should stay where strength is the most weakest. Rhaegar already had three other kingsguard at the trident, and Elia and her kids had Jaime, all of the city watch, and other tagaeryen loyalists soldiers at kings landing at the time. Whereas Lyanna had a few servents at best, in a deserted tower in Dorne. So three kingsguard stayed at the tower of joy, expecting Aerys and Aegon to remain safe in Kings Landing, and it wasn't until after their deaths that they considered Jon the rightful heir or King.

And I don't see how Aegon could have been smuggled out of Kings Landing, when no one, not even Varys would have been aware of Tywin sacking the city beforehand.

[Frey family reunion]

8 minutes ago, ReturnOfCaponBreath said:

The context Of The quote that Jon's mother left little of herself in him is missing and very important.

Brandon's reactions had all of the following rationales:

1 he is a hot head

2 he has "Southern ambitions" that, whatever they are, are surely not helped by Rhaegars choice of Lyanna as QOL&B when he is married to a Dornish princess.

3 the reason cited in the text. He considersed it a slight on his sisters honour.

Any combination of these 3 is highly plausible and require a lot less of a leap of faith than an incestuous child with his sister.

You may be right about the power of Kings blood. What we know is that the Starks haven't been Kings in the North for 300 years and the (only?) person who tells is there is power in kingsblood is Mel so it's possible that she is wrong and your interpretation is more accurate there just isn't much to back up either view.

1.  Yes Brandon is a hot head, and impulsive, and he covets.  And like Lyanna, his father has apparently arranged for him an unwanted marriage.  If the two did have a secret relationship, it would have had to come to a head at the time of Lyanna's disappearance, right before Brandon was to marry Cat.

2.  Lord Rickard had southron ambitions, I'm not sure Brandon did.  According to Barbery, Brandon was not happy about his father's plans for him to further those southron ambitions.

3.  The maester writing the worldbook surmises that Brandon's reaction was because it was a slight on Lyanna's honor.  This is probably revisionist history at best, considering the current assumption that Rhaegar coveted Lyanna.  But at the time of the tourney that reaction wouldn't have made any sense.  Why would Lyanna's "honor" have been tainted by Rhaegar's very public actions.  In fact, the assumption would have been that Rhaegar was trying to curry favor with the Starks by awarding the only female Stark in attendance with the honor.  The assumption could have also been that Rhaegar was trying to make Robert look ineffectual.  But Brandon having the strongest reaction is what is the most unusual.

The context of the quote, is that Tyrion looks at Jon, and sees Eddard, and very little else in Jon.  In other words Jon looks very much like a Stark and not like anything else.  Arya proves that this is not dispositive as to parentage, but it is still evidence of it.

As for the Starks not be kings for 300 years, my guess is that is merely a political fiction and not a genetic one.  I think that Martin has created magical bloodlines that made themselves Kings of Westeros, and fostered those bloodlines over the years.  If you look at the Stark's lineage, you will notice that many of the marriages were made to first cousins.  This would be a way of keeping the bloodline pure without actually engaging in incest.  However in recent generations, those marriages started to branch out.  So it is possible that what made the Stark's special became a recessive trait as opposed to a dominant trait, that stayed in the bloodline but could never be expressed.  Until perhaps brother marries sister, both having the recessive trait, and it once again becomes dominant with Jon.  This would make Jon a very valuable sacrifice in a blood magic ritual.

[Frey family reunion]

12 minutes ago, WeKnowNothing said:

Kings landing was never meant to be sacked at this time, and no one expected a sack either. Ned expected to take the city peacefully (in a seige-way), but obviously Tywin beat him to that. Technically, those three kingsguard should stay where strength is the most weakest. Rhaegar already had three other kingsguard at the trident, and Elia and her kids had Jaime, all of the city watch, and other tagaeryen loyalists soldiers at kings landing at the time. Whereas Lyanna had a few servents at best, in a deserted tower in Dorne. So three kingsguard stayed at the tower of joy, expecting Aerys and Aegon to remain safe in Kings Landing, and it wasn't until after their deaths that they considered Jon the rightful heir or King.

And I don't see how Aegon could have been smuggled out of Kings Landing, when no one, not even Varys would have been aware of Tywin sacking the city beforehand.

I don't think Aegon was smuggled out of King's Landing because of fear of a sack.  I think he was "smuggled" out of King's Landing because Rhaegar planned on making Aegon a part of his dragon hatching ritual at the tower of joy.

[ReturnOfCaponBreath]

10 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

1.  Yes Brandon is a hot head, and impulsive, and he covets.  And like Lyanna, his father has apparently arranged for him an unwanted marriage.  If the two did have a secret relationship, it would have had to come to a head at the time of Lyanna's disappearance, right before Brandon was to marry Cat.

2.  Lord Rickard had southron ambitions, I'm not sure Brandon did.  According to Barbery, Brandon was not happy about his father's plans for him to further those southron ambitions.

3.  The maester writing the worldbook surmises that Brandon's reaction was because it was a slight on Lyanna's honor.  This is probably revisionist history at best, considering the current assumption that Rhaegar coveted Lyanna.  But at the time of the tourney that reaction wouldn't have made any sense.  Why would Lyanna's "honor" have been tainted by Rhaegar's very public actions.  In fact, the assumption would have been that Rhaegar was trying to curry favor with the Starks by awarding the only female Stark in attendance with the honor.  The assumption could have also been that Rhaegar was trying to make Robert look ineffectual.  But Brandon having the strongest reaction is what is the most unusual.

The context of the quote, is that Tyrion looks at Jon, and sees Eddard, and very little else in Jon.  In other words Jon looks very much like a Stark and not like anything else.  Arya proves that this is not dispositive as to parentage, but it is still evidence of it.

As for the Starks not be kings for 300 years, my guess is that is merely a political fiction and not a genetic one.  I think that Martin has created magical bloodlines that made themselves Kings of Westeros, and fostered those bloodlines over the years.  If you look at the Stark's lineage, you will notice that many of the marriages were made to first cousins.  This would be a way of keeping the bloodline pure without actually engaging in incest.  However in recent generations, those marriages started to branch out.  So it is possible that what made the Stark's special became a recessive trait as opposed to a dominant trait, that stayed in the bloodline but could never be expressed.  Until perhaps brother marries sister, both having the recessive trait, and it once again becomes dominant with Jon.  This would make Jon a very valuable sacrifice in a blood magic ritual.

1. The context is a conversation about Bastards vs dwarves. I suppose it's possible that Tyrion is being used to give the reader some subtle but it's Tyrion, having a Conversation with Jon about being a bastard and then reflecting on how Starky he looks. The scene is being used to establish his Starkness IMO. Of course in the Brandon Incest case he is doubly Stark...

2. You are quite right and I stand corrected.

3. Brandon had an issue with it, Barristan Selmy comments on it.  At best it's unusual, for the characters in the book to bring it up. Is it anything other than speculation that it somehow wasn't an issue?

 

 

[Melifeather]

8 hours ago, ReturnOfCaponBreath said:

Just one minor observation on this (with no specific interpretation of what I think it might mean)

Bran 1 GOT:

"His fur was white, where the rest of the litter was grey. His eyes were as red as the blood Of The ragged man who had died that morning. Bran thought it was curious that this pup alone would have opened his eyes while the others were blind."

Dr Strange recognising Jon's advanced development and power in chapter 1 of book 1. Jon is singled out by GRRM from day 1.

 

I agree that the white wolf distinguishes Jon as being different than the other siblings. He's a bastard while the others true born, and the white and red eyes indicates that he is also a product of the old gods. What exactly are those implications? 

I might also point out that there are other major characters with unique characteristics, like Tyrion's dwarfism and mismatched eyes, yet is there any reader that concludes that makes him the main character?

 

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Well, I don't know what Ned promised or why he said nothing to anyone about Lyanna.  We don't really know what he told Robert about the circumstances of her death or where he found her.  It seems to me that he lets Robert believe what he wants to believe rather than tell him the truth.

 

 

You might be familiar with the thread on the general forum that touches on portraiture in Westeros... the lack of it and perhaps the significance of such things where they do exist in the text.   I'm speculating that Robert's feast celebrating his victory at the battles of Summerhall  is one such event; where the banners of the twin fawns spattered in blood beside the banner of the sleeping lion have another context.  Robert is the stag and fawns are offspring.  The lion is the symbol of royatly.  At some point, Martin will have to point to something in the text that tells us when and where Jon was born.  

If Jon was born on this day, that places Ned somewhere in the vicinity of the Quiet Isle where noble ladies sometimes go for assistance.  Whether Ned knew she was there or not, or was summoned there is the question.  We have some precedence in the text with Tyrion when he discusses hiding Tommen without being party to his whereabouts.  It wouldn't be the first time that a lady disguised herself as a septa.   But certainly, there was a need to hide Lyanna given the fates of her father and brother and her betrothal to rebel/usurper Robert.   She was in as much danger as the rest of them, if not more. 

When Lyanna says that "love is sweet, but it cannot change the nature of a man"; I'm not so sure that she is only talking about Robert's feelings but her own instead.   We can't place Lyanna with Rhaegar with any certainty.  That is also the situation with Robert, except that it seems more likely to me that Robert had access to Lyanna after the tourney for a time; where Rhaegar did not until she apparently fell into his lap.  

It's the symbolism of the crowned stag or the horned lord that is significant to Jon.  Mance denies his place as king beyond the wall although his tent of white firs is crowned with the antlers of the great elk.  What is Jon now that the wildlings have pledged their allegiance to him; if not king beyond the wall and soon to be king in the north, a great bastard to match his great bastard sword.   The wildlings don't follow kings they follow the horned lord.   

Adding to this from the wiki:

However, some of his own remained loyal to the throne. When Robert learned that Lords Grandson, Cafferen, and Felll had gathered their hosts and planned to join forces at Summerhalll in order to march on Storm's End, he rode ahead with his knights to Summerhall. He fought each of the lords in turn, defeating them all. Robert returned to Storm's End with his captives, and there won the loyalty of Lords Cafferen and Grandison, as well as the loyalty of the deceased Lord Fell's son, Silveraxe.

 

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Actually I disagree that nothing hints at it.

And there are other quotes noting that Jon looks much more "Stark like" than his other siblings.

Then we have Brandon's reaction at the Harrenhal tourney.

Once again this reaction doesn't make any sense.  The reward of the crown to Lyanna should not have been immediately assumed to have been a romantic gesture.  In fact in the context it was presented in, by a married man, whose wife was in attendance, the gesture should have been considered an honor bestowed both upon Lyanna and upon House Stark.  But Brandon reacts more hotly to this than Robert, who would have had a better reason to have been jealous of the overture.  

We have this description of Brandon and Lyanna:

Then we have this from Lady Barberry:

Interestingly, Jaime compares Brandon to himself:

Finally, I'm trying to make heads or tails as to why Eddard seems to be haunted by the promise that Lyanna demanded of him on her death bed.  And as he lay in the black cells he dreamed of blood and broken promises.  What promise did he break.  Why is he dreaming of Lyanna crying bloody tears and the direwolf statues turning and growling at Eddard while Lyanna reminds Eddard of his promise?

The only thing that really makes sense to me is that the promise that Eddard broke to Lyanna is giving Jon his birthright, Winterfell.  It's also the only plot line concerning Jon's parentage that cold really forward the story at this point.  It also highlights why Eddard has to keep this secret from Cat.  Cat already doesn't like Jon, if he tells Cat that Jon is Brandon's son he becomes a bigger threat to her children's claim.  It's not the Iron Throne that Jon covets, it's Winterfell, and perhaps he may have a valid claim.

This also may explain why this dream starts to plague Eddard when it does.  He is dealing with the inverse problem with the Lannisters.  A secret of incest which is being used to steal the throne from the Baratheons.  It's an inverse to Eddard's guilt.  That Eddard stole Winterfell from his brother's son because of Brandon and Lyanna's incestuous relationship.

ETA as for your last question, you read the idea behind Kingsblood too narrowly (as does Melisandre IMO).  If Jon is the child of Brandon and Lyanna he has a purer form of Kingsblood than most, a purer Stark bloodline and the Starks until they knelt were the Kings of Winter and the north.

 

Adding to this....what better way for Ned to recognize the incest between Cersei and Jaime than to have previous experience with Brandon and Lyanna? Their blond-haired green-eyed children the inversion to dark-haired and grey-eyed Jon.

[Frey family reunion]

5 minutes ago, ReturnOfCaponBreath said:

 

3. Brandon had an issue with it, Barristan Selmy comments on it.  At best it's unusual, for the characters in the book to bring it up. Is it anything other than speculation that it somehow wasn't an issue?

 

 

I'm fairly confident that GRRM took the Harrenhall tourney and the notion of awarding of the Queen of Love and Beauty from the Ashford tourney in Ivanhoe.  In Ivanhoe, the mystery knight crowns Lady Rowenna, and the person most upset by it, is Rowenna's betrothed who becomes bitterly jealous.  Rowenna's adopted family takes no such offense and her adopted father takes it to be an honor upon his family and the Saxons as a whole.

With Ivanhoe as a backdrop, I would think that Robert would have naturally been the most aggrieved party to the award.  Now I do wonder if Rhaegar merely suspected that there was a relationship between Lyanna and Brandon, and if he used the award to test his theory out.

 I would ask you this question.  Because going through Eddard's memory of the promise that Lyanna asked of him, he is clearly being haunted by it.  He dreams of a broken promise while in the black cells.   Elsewhere, Eddard recalls promises that Lyanna asked of him on her deathbed.  If the promise merely was to keep Jon safe (which he surely does) then why does the promise continue to haunt him?  Why is he dreaming of direwolves snarling at him in the crypts while a crying Lyanna remind him of his promise?

[Frey family reunion]

3 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

 

Adding to this....what better way for Ned to recognize the incest between Cersei and Jaime than to have previous experience with Brandon and Lyanna? Their blond-haired green-eyed children the inversion to dark-haired and grey-eyed Jon.

Excellent point.  Why does the promise Eddard made to Lyanna haunt him after he has his conversation with Cersei about revealing her secret incest to Robert?  Eddard feels guilty because he is able to spot Cersei and Jaime's secret because he knows about Lyanna and Brandon's secret.  And Eddard knows that while Jaime and Cersei's incest makes Joffrey an illegitimate heir to the Iron Throne, it is Eddard's knowledge of Brandon and Lyanna's incest that makes his own children illegitimate heirs to Winterfell, and it is Jon who is being robbed of his rightful inheritance.  The irony is pretty interesting.

[Prof. Cecily]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

That would cover the born amidst salt and smoke version of the prophecy:  the Saltpans and smoking beehives.  Somewhat different from Dany reborn amidst salt tears and smoke, when the stars bleed.   Or Bran who was blessed with a salt tear when he passed the Black Gate and Jon who dies with his blood smoking in the cold air.   Jon is yet to be reborn in salt and smoke... salt blocks aplenty at Castle Black which also features a smoke house.  LOL

That's most poetic, and of course the imagry of the beehives is most appealing, still isn't the Quiet Isle on the other side of the bay from Saltpans?

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, WeKnowNothing said:

its often implied the importance of kingsguard to protect heirs or close family throughout the book. Because of this, most argue that the presence of three kingsguard at the tower of joy proves that Jon must be legitimate, otherwise they would never have even there in the first place.

Thanks for Darry

This is of course a very popular argument, but GRRM when pressed on the matter stated that they were obeying orders:

http://web.archive.o...s3/00103009.htm

Martin: The King's Guards don't get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they're also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that.

 Now it could be said that Rhaegar ordered them to guard Lyanna because she was carrying his child and it could be that GRRM answered the question thus to avoid committing himself to an admission that they were guarding the last best hope of House Targaryen, but given that qualification that they "protect the king and the royal family [which would include Jon Targaryen and his lawfully wedded mother] but they're also bound to obey their orders" strongly suggests something else and means that the guarding the heir is only a theory, not a given.