Heresy 199 Once upon a Time in the West

[Melifeather]

5 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I'm not really sure if Viserys' psyche was transferred.  If it was, then it must have been transferred into one of the eggs at the time of his death.  My basic thought is the funeral pyre transferred three human "souls" and two horse "souls":  The psyches of Rhaego and Drogo, and Drogo's horse were all probably conjoined thanks to the blood magic ritual.  Then the funeral pyre may have resulted in two additional souls, Mirri's and the unnamed horse.

My thought is the Targaryen legend of "the dragon must have three heads" may not have been fulfilled yet, or may have only been fulfilled through one of the three dragons.  If the PTWP prophecy is associated with this prophecy and is associated with a Valyrian Sphinx (and Aemon's fevered ramblings suggests that it may be) then what we're looking at is something analogous to a Warg's permanent joining of his animal.  Such as the Children within the ravens, or Orell inside his eagle, or Varamyr within the one eyed wolf.  In other words a human's psyche permanently joining the dragon. 

Since they have been trying to solve this "riddle" for about a thousand years, then I don't think the dragons merely hatching fulfilled this prophecy.  We've had dragons and dragonriders before this.  I dont' think we've yet to have the Prince that Was Promised: a dragon with the psyche of a human(s).

It could be this, but my line of thinking is slightly different. I am wondering if the prince dragon that was promised is actually a blood magic ritual to hatch dragon eggs. The Targaryens were obsessed with hatching dragon eggs, but didn't have a lot of success and I think it's because they forgot how to do it. There's that one tale about the Targaryen king that believed if he burned to death that he would be resurrected as a dragon. Likewise the tragedy at Summerhall involved a fire, and I'm thinking since Rhaella and Rhaegar survived (and I speculate that Ser Duncan the Tall likely saved them and perished instead) that that is why it failed. I think these are examples of attempts at interpreting the "prophecy", but the prophecy is actually instructions.

[LynnS]

44 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I dont' think we've yet to have the Prince that Was Promised: a dragon with the psyche of a human(s).

Which is what I suspect R'hllor will turn out to be.  The last dragon god and the one who transforms Dany in her wake the dragon dream. 

[Prof. Cecily]

8 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

On Braavos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo’s talk of dragons had almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. “No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. “I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger.”

 

7 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

If I am understanding Aemon correctly he is saying that the original text in the old language reads "dragon", but that the Targaryens translated into "prince", but since dragons are neither female  nor male then dragon could also be princess. But even so it appears that Aemon and Rhaegar were wrong about the prince that was promised. The text was referring to how to raise a dragon all along. You follow the blood sacrifice recipe correctly and you will get a dragon...that's the promise.

Edited to add: the original translation should be read as "the dragon that was promised". Hope this clarifies things?

Not at all. I can't imagine how you have read the text this way. Aemon is saying they confused prince/princess.

But never mind, it'll all become clear in the later books.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

14 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

That's definitely food for thought (oopsy, wrong metaphor...)!  If Viserys's soul was trapped inside his head, then how according to your theory did Daenerys make telepathic contact with him?  The golden 'ward' (presuming there is such a thing -- I had thought wards had to contain iron?) should work both ways.  If Viserys's soul cannot bond with an egg, he shouldn't be able to bond with Dany in that moment; otherwise stated, if his consciousness can't 'exit' the gold casing, she should also be barred from 'entering' the gold shell and therefore his consciousness.

Remember PK Jane gave us that awesome quote about the 'golden blood of Valyria' or 'gold blood of the dragon'?  So, symbolically the gold filling Viserys's mouth is the spilled blood of the dragon, analogous to how the blood wells up in the mouth when someone is ritually sacrificed by having his throat cut, as happened in the case of the captive at the heart tree, whom I'm certain bonded with the heart tree in that moment, or Bran would not have access to his consciousness.  There are too many similarities between the Bran and Dany scenes -- which I explained in detail on your thread (I provided the link above in my previous post to those who are interested in reading more) --  for me to dismiss the Viserys scene as having no relation to the dragon forging.  Viserys was a sacrifice to the egg, the same way the captive was sacrificed to the weirwood.  The weirwood traps souls the way a dragon egg captures souls.  When the souls are released (e.g. by applying the kiss of fire), white shadows (e.g. Others) or black shadows (e.g. dragons) are liberated.

That's the same question I asked of Rhaego's body?  Many readers mistakenly assume he was placed on the pyre, but this is never stated, nor as far as we know did Dany ever get to see the body as she requested.

Aaah, because the contact would have been established before he got the gold poured on his head (when he was begging for Dany to save him), and then the taste of molten gold would have probably been the last thing Dany experienced before the contact was cut off.

But if this is really what happened (or even if not), then I have a million questions for GRRM about the specifics. Are souls contained in blood? In marrow? Do brains have something to do with it, like I think they must? Can a soul be copied, or "split"? Where does a soul go when a person dies, into the nearest suitable "conduit"? Does it stay in the corpse unless something is done with it? What happens when you burn a body? Are souls absorbed into the fire-net? Are the stars the fire-net? The Dothraki believe their souls go into the stars when they are burned, and electromagnetic energy seems to be a conduit for telepathic communication based on the fact that telepathic control can change the color of eyes like with the blue-eyed wights (and the Jaenshi in And Seven Times Never Kill Man), and electromagnetic energy can travel through space. Are the Dothraki actually correct? And, you know, most planets with life (like Earth) will eventually be consumed by their expanding suns. And then everything on the planet living and dead would be consumed by a star's fire. Will this eventually happen to Planetos? Would the weirnet just be absorbed into the sun?

And are soul physics the same in asoiaf as they are in the 1,000 worlds? Did Jesus's soul (when the volcryn was flying nearby Old Earth and enhancing) go into the Holy Grail and then get transferred back into his dead body 3 days later or something?

This shit keeps me awake at night...