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US Politics: the Lying Liars Who Lie edtion


Fragile Bird

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Just now, OldGimletEye said:

I simply do not think the debt ceiling should be used as a tool for legislation. I think it is damaging to liberal causes in the long run. The best result here would be for Democrats to demand that debt ceiling games be eliminated for good. The minimum acceptable result is that there is clean bill with nothing attached by Republicans.

yes yes, removing market checks on their use of power can only be a good thing!

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1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Oh fun. Senate now closing themselves off right at the moment they're drafting a secret healthcare bill and holding very important hearings. These fucking guys man. It's clear they don't work for the American people. I really hope they vote them all out (i know they won't).

Shouldn't the party of business be proud of the work it's doing here? Why be so secretive?

But seriously, what a bunch of cowards.

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4 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

yes yes, removing market checks on their use of power can only be a good thing!

There may come a time when Democrats regain power. I do not wish to empower future Republicans to use the debt ceiling as way to get concessions. After all, I think we are the ones that have interest in maintain the welfare state. And we're the ones that have an interest in maintaining full employment. I think legitimizing the debt ceiling as tool to be bargained over is a bad strategy.

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4 hours ago, commiedore said:

*nodding sagely* cool, cool

If true, Murray has gone from running for president to deserving to be primaried

reminds me of how Feinstien was all like "anyone the president nominates is inherently qualified and deserves an automatic rubber stamp yes vote." it was only organized outrage that got her to. start acting like a democrat and vote against de vos.

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24 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

If true, Murray has gone from running for president to deserving to be primaried

She's never going to run for POTUS, but I also really don't understand this view at all. What does her delaying a vote by 24 hours matter? Are you really espousing useless gestures and political theater over actual functioning government?

That it would also stop things like Russian sanctions and Sessions testifying is another issue.

24 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

reminds me of how Feinstien was all like "anyone the president nominates is inherently qualified and deserves an automatic rubber stamp yes vote." it was only organized outrage that got her to. start acting like a democrat and vote against de vos.

Voting against someone is kind of different than holding a meaningless delay tactic.

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59 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

There may come a time when Democrats regain power. I do not wish to empower future Republicans to use the debt ceiling as way to get concessions. After all, I think we are the ones that have interest in maintain the welfare state. And we're the ones that have an interest in maintaining full employment. I think legitimizing the debt ceiling as tool to be bargained over is a bad strategy.

That ship has sailed. The Republicans have already weaponized the debt ceiling. 

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Also, good god things are moving fast in the wrong direction:

Quote

“We want genuine action, and if there is not action, then the calls for internment will grow,” Farage said. “We have over 3,000 people on a sort of known terrorist list, and we’re watching, monitoring their activities. But [there are] a further 20,000 people who are persons of interest, namely they’re linked in some way to extremist organizations. Unless we see the government getting tough, you will see public calls for those 3,000 to be arrested.”

Farage conceded that “we might alienate decent, fair-minded Muslims in Britain.”

In a subsequent segment, Daily Mail columnist Katie Hopkins, asked about Farage’s comments, said she agreed with the idea of internment camps.

“We do need internment camps,” she said. “Before, I would have bought the idea that this gets more people radicalized — you know, that’s not the solution. But we’ve gone beyond the tipping point. This country cannot take another attack.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-news-london-attack_us_59343347e4b075bff0f475f8

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That ship has sailed. The Republicans have already weaponized the debt ceiling. 

Of course they have. And the Democrats should put a stop to it.

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1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

This plus I think you have to factor in his paranoia/distrust of the Deep State of which I'm sure he considers the Secret Service a part of. There's no way he'd leave a recording system in their charge.

He also has his own security people in the WH:

http://prospect.org/article/trump’s-private-security-force-operational-and-legal-swamp

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31 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Yeah, he's kept his own bodyguard since the campaign, even after the point that he had his own Secret Service detail. I guess I can't blame him for that, all things considered.

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37 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, good god things are moving fast in the wrong direction:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-news-london-attack_us_59343347e4b075bff0f475f8

Step 1: Internment camps

Step 2: ?????*

Step 3: NO MOAR TERRORISM!**

 

*Gross violations of basic humans rights, dehumanization of a minority group of people, death, etc.
**smh

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1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Of course they have. And the Democrats should put a stop to it.

I'm not sure what that will accomplish though. It's not like Democrats demonstrating good governing behavior will change how Republicans behave.

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1 hour ago, Week said:

Step 1: Internment camps

Step 2: ?????*

Step 3: NO MOAR TERRORISM!**

 

*Gross violations of basic humans rights, dehumanization of a minority group of people, death, etc.
**smh

Everyone knows the best way to prevent terrorism is to take actions that will lead to an uptick in terrorism recruitment. Duh.

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16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm not sure what that will accomplish though. It's not like Democrats demonstrating good governing behavior will change how Republicans behave.

I'm all for screwing over Republicans every chance you get. However, if it means doing something that would be harmful to long term Democratic goals, then I'm a bit more hesitant. And make no mistake, it's in the interest of the Democratic Party to maintain the full faith and credit of the United States.
The fact of the matter is that there are some real nutters in the Republican Party that would be fine with destroying the credit of the United States. That restricts the welfare state. And that would restrict all this Keynesian full employment stuff.
That doesn't mean I believe in peace at any price. At some point, you do have to draw the line, even if that means the result will be terrible.
Taking these conflicting interest into account, I believe the best place for the Democratic Party to draw the line is a clean debt ceiling raise and to be consistent in that demand and never waiver from it, whether the Democrats are in power or out of power.

And I certainly do not believe that Republicans will just reciprocate good faith and fair dealing. They may however respond when threats and resolve are credible and repeatedly demonstrated as being credible.

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