US Politics: the Lying Liars Who Lie edtion

[Kalbear]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

So just spit the bit on fighting the AHCA? Based on the hope that the R's are going to give you a hand with the Russian sanctions? They'd better get that in writing. Sounds like a sucker's bet, quite frankly.

There's a difference between fighting and pouting. What does holding up the vote by a parliamentary trick for 24 hours make? 

And yeah, you're possibly right - that holding Republicans to anything seems iffy, but this actually came from backchannels and we know for a fact that there are a lot of Republicans that were and are aghast at sanctions being lifted. There aren't a ton of options for compromise and bipartisanship, I agree, but burning the few and losing any chances of winning anything for a 24-hour delay that accomplishes nothing is not useful to me.

[all swedes are racist]

11 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think there are some things that are worth potentially haggling over, largely around foreign policy. 

And this isn't really doing anything 'for' the Republicans. The Democrats are simply not going to absurd, useless lengths to blockade anything. What they gain is some semblance of good will from Republicans and the ability to negotiate at some points. Otherwise they'll be burning their last bridges and there will simply be no reason for Democrats in congress to exist. 

Which I can see a reasonable argument for, but it kind of is defeating to Democrats. Democrats are the party that actually believes government can do good things, and abdicating that plays right into conservative hands.

lol

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Yeah, if some R's are truly aghast at the lifting of sanctions against Russia, they're going to swallow that because of a 24 hour delaying tactic? That smells like Elephant shit to me.

[Kalbear]

Just now, commiedore said:

lol

In the senate it matters. Especially when there are such razor-thin margins and Trump's numbers are declining so badly. 

Perhaps it's just a difference of viewpoint. I get the desire to see Democrats resist in every conceivable way, shape and form that they can, at all times. I really do, especially after 2010-2016 with Obama. At the same time I don't like it because I don't see what it actually successfully accomplishes other than signalling that people are really angry. So what? 

Perhaps that's wrong of me, and wanting actual effect isn't as important as the political theater. My suspicion is that there really isn't anything that anyone can actually do anyway, so my arguing about it is kind of pointless, an optimism for an age when government could accomplish something which no longer exists. 

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, if some R's are truly aghast at the lifting of sanctions against Russia, they're going to swallow that because of a 24 hour delaying tactic? That smells like Elephant shit to me.

If the Democrats publicly show that they cannot be worked with and are going to obstruct everything, there is simply no way that Republicans can publicly work with them. It would be a sign of weakness and play right into the Trump messaging. Whether or not it is bullshit remains to be seen, but it certainly seems plausible to me. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

If the Democrats publicly show that they cannot be worked with and are going to obstruct everything, there is simply no way that Republicans can publicly work with them. It would be a sign of weakness and play right into the Trump messaging. Whether or not it is bullshit remains to be seen, but it certainly seems plausible to me. 

When the Republicans are trying to backdoor a bill that is likely to leave 25 million more americans without healthcare, without holding so much as a hearing? That's not a sign that they are willing to work with anyone publicly.

[Zorral]

2 minutes ago, commiedore said:

I think there are some things that are worth potentially haggling over, largely around foreign policy. 

For moi, particularly the purely cynical rotted low-hanging fruit of Cuba and our opening relations -- because, you know, Obama.  For the midwest -- even for Sessions's own state -- the trade in grains and chickens is HUGE, for these agricultural based states.

As they say in Cooba -- chicken comes from the US, but the pork is cubano.  

Swine runs around free range in Cuba, and their flesh, if one eats such, tastes enormously wonderful . Also also the egg laying chickens are local and run around free range, and most people in the US have no idea of the sabroso of eggs until they eat a cuban chicken eggs.

In Cuba at this point with the trade in chickens from the US (for the hordes of tourists from round the world), that's what tourists and Cubans too eat.  The free range chickens provide eggs and fighting cock breeding.  Yah, cock fighting is a thing in Cuba, as it is in all latino cultures at this time.

 

[all swedes are racist]

10 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

In the senate it matters. Especially when there are such razor-thin margins and Trump's numbers are declining so badly. 

Perhaps it's just a difference of viewpoint. I get the desire to see Democrats resist in every conceivable way, shape and form that they can, at all times. I really do, especially after 2010-2016 with Obama. At the same time I don't like it because I don't see what it actually successfully accomplishes other than signalling that people are really angry. So what? 

Perhaps that's wrong of me, and wanting actual effect isn't as important as the political theater. My suspicion is that there really isn't anything that anyone can actually do anyway, so my arguing about it is kind of pointless, an optimism for an age when government could accomplish something which no longer exists. 

If the Democrats publicly show that they cannot be worked with and are going to obstruct everything, there is simply no way that Republicans can publicly work with them. It would be a sign of weakness and play right into the Trump messaging. Whether or not it is bullshit remains to be seen, but it certainly seems plausible to me. 

oh, i agree i'd like to see positive shit actually get done. and while i may no longer have any love in my heart for the democratic party, i'd like to see them act as an effective foil to the right in any and everyway possible, such as enacting impactful legislation or winning goddamn elections (both is probably too much to ask for) and right now, i worry your preferred approach means neither.

believe me, kal, a little gop style stonewalling, or some jr dem senator taking a shit in the middle of the chamber floor just on the off chance it might delay a vote that will likely kill hundred of thousands or millions of people is pretty goddamn far from what i'd consider ideal...

[Xray the Enforcer]

18 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

When the Republicans are trying to backdoor a bill that is likely to leave 25 million more americans without healthcare, without holding so much as a hearing? That's not a sign that they are willing to work with anyone publicly.

This is the crux of it for me. They're not even trying to give the barest patina of cooperation. As such, fuck those guys. I'd take a shit on the Senate floor right alongside some junior senator (YO LOBSTER YA WITH ME?) if that means stalling the vote out of principle.

[all swedes are racist]

you know i am down for shitting anywhere in public, yo, right there beside you 100%

[kairparavel]

5 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

This is the crux of it for me. They're not even trying to give the barest patina of cooperation. As such, fuck those guys. I'd take a shit on the Senate floor right alongside some junior senator (YO LOBSTER YA WITH ME?) if that means stalling the vote out of principle.

 

1 minute ago, commiedore said:

you know i am down for shitting anywhere in public, yo, right there beside you 100%

I have nothing useful to add here except my latest GPS locator, stonewalling and social media offering available in the Apple and Android stores: ShitsApp

Find like-minded friends, meet up and pinch off a hot and steamy fillibuster. 

 

[all swedes are racist]

1 minute ago, kairparavel said:

 

I have nothing useful to add here except my latest GPS locator, stonewalling and social media offering available in the Apple and Android stores: ShitsApp

Find like-minded friends, meet up and pinch off a hot and steamy fillibuster. 

 

shitzaam

[Kalbear]

Just now, commiedore said:

shitzaam

Wipe left to match?

[all swedes are racist]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

Wipe left to match?

o.0

have i been doing it wrong this whole time?

[Xray the Enforcer]

hahahahaha I got nothing.

[all swedes are racist]

x-ray,, thakn you,,,,,

[LongRider]

Small digression of no importance;

Which led to this;

Oh dear, I suppose now SK will receive death threat tweets from other Trump ass-kissers.  JFC, what the fuck happened to my country?

[kairparavel]

 

[ThinkerX]

Ok, take these two articles:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-calls-health-care-bill-he-celebrated-in-the-rose-garden-‘mean’/ar-BBCDKMs?ocid=msnclassic

(Trump calls version 1.0 of the AHCA 'mean')

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-gop-health-care-bill-will-be-generous-kind-and-with-heart/ar-BBCDtT8?ocid=msnclassic

(Trump promises GOP bill will be kinder, gentler, needs more money)

Add Trump himself, who puts personal popularity before almost all else, and can smell what a stinker the AHCA is.

Also assume that the republicans are trapped - the AHCA abomination they have created is the ONLY thing that will pass muster without making major concessions to the democratic party. 

So, the revamped AHCA passes both houses on a squeaker of a party line vote.  Then it lands on Trumps desk.  Normally, one would expect him to sign it with a smile and declare victory - it makes him a winner.  But, he also realizes this bill is deeply unpopular, and that by signing it, it makes him unpopular.  So...

 

...not likely, but at least possible given Trumps lunacy -

 - suppose Trump vetoes the AHCA?

Likely Republican reaction?  Democratic reaction?

Say, Trump repeats his 'kinder, gentler' spiel when issuing the veto.  This puts the republicans in a position of not being able to pass a bill acceptable to Trump (at least at that moment) without democratic assistance.  The AHCA becomes a revamped version of the ACA.  Forced bipartisanship.

 

And yes, this is unlikely.  But Trump is so crazy its at least possible.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 hours ago, kairparavel said:

I have nothing useful to add here except my latest GPS locator, stonewalling and social media offering available in the Apple and Android stores: ShitsApp

Find like-minded friends, meet up and pinch off a hot and steamy fillibuster. 

The celebrity endorsements are, errr, already piling up...

 

https://imgflip.com/i/1qum6v

[Free Northman Reborn]

4 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Small digression of no importance;

Which led to this;

Oh dear, I suppose now SK will receive death threat tweets from other Trump ass-kissers.  JFC, what the fuck happened to my country?

I far prefer Dean Koontz anyway to that weirdo.