Have mercy on the Children of the Forest

[Josette DuPres]

The Children of the Forest had every right to fight with the First Men.  It's even possible that it was they who created the others as biological weapons against the first men.  They practice human and animal sacrifice to the trees.  It is cruel and will have to stop.  But do we really need to kill the children like many shows on youtube and a number of forum replies here are suggesting?  That sounds evil to me to extinct an entire species just because they present a potential threat to man.  Downright selfish even if it's humanists.  It is inhumane even if it's pro humans.

Slitting the victims' throats and watering the trees with their blood is wrong.  However we can think out of the box and find a solution that feeds the trees without murdering people and killing animals.  If the Red Cross can ask for blood donations why can't the kingdom do the same?  Instead of burning/burying/freezing the dead, which is a waste of flesh, why not donate the body to the children to feed their trees.  The ironborn have to stop their reaving ways, the wildlings their raiding, the Dothraki their slaving, and the Children their blood sacrificing.  It just takes someone with the means to push through the resistance to change.  

The skin changers are a dangerous threat to free will but even they should not be killed to extinction.  They are the best candidate for extinction in my opinion, but I would rather have them settled away from man instead.  

[TMIFairy]

And we should save the whales while we are at it.

[Fire Eater]

Actually, they created the Others only in the show not the books. 

Also, skinchangers aren't an ethnic group. They are born randomly. The only bad skinchanger we have come upon is Varamyr. 

[867-5309]

1 hour ago, Fire Eater said:

Actually, they created the Others only in the show not the books. 

Also, skinchangers aren't an ethnic group. They are born randomly. The only bad skinchanger we have come upon is Varamyr. 

Bran is on the dark path.  He already ate people while under the skin of his wolf.  

[Tyg Doggett]

I don't understand why the skinchangers are dangerous. They seem  to have a moral code, and the only ones who didn't follow it were Varamyr and Bran (ok, Bran seems really dangerous).

Apart from that, i agree with you.

 

Sorry if this post has errors, english isn't my first language.

[Kienn]

4 hours ago, Josette DuPres said:

The ironborn have to stop their reaving ways, the wildlings their raiding, the Dothraki their slaving, and the Children their blood sacrificing.

None of these are true...

[Vaedys Targaryen]

4 hours ago, Tygett Blackwood said:

I don't understand why the skinchangers are dangerous. They seem  to have a moral code, and the only ones who didn't follow it were Varamyr and Bran (ok, Bran seems really dangerous).

Apart from that, i agree with you.

 

Sorry if this post has errors, english isn't my first language.

In Bran's defense, he is a small child and is also unaware of these "laws" that skinchangers have. And even if he did know about them, he would need to be taught why it's bad to break these rules. So far he has only warged into Summer, a raven and Hodor. Summer and the raven were okay with Bran warging into them, but Hodor has only been very scared and didn't put up much of a fight when Bran warged into him, which could mean that Bran didn't think much of it.

Varamyr on the other hand, is aware of the "laws" and breaks them anyway. He has warged into both animals and humans who have resisted him, but he doesn't care.

I personally like to think that warging symbolically represents sex, rape and consent. We know GRRM is very familiar with feminist issues, so he would of course know a lot about this particular topic.

[GyantSpyder]

Everybody is onions - very few people are so totally rotten that they're worth throwing out. Most people are part rotten and part good. The Children are probably like that too.

9 hours ago, Josette DuPres said:

However we can think out of the box and find a solution that feeds the trees without murdering people and killing animals.

The system is already in place - feeding them with condemned criminals who are getting the death penalty anyway. This is practiced both in Winterfell and in Qohor.

[Prof. Cecily]

3 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

In Bran's defense, he is a small child and is also unaware of these "laws" that skinchangers have. And even if he did know about them, he would need to be taught why it's bad to break these rules. So far he has only warged into Summer, a raven and Hodor. Summer and the raven were okay with Bran warging into them, but Hodor has only been very scared and didn't put up much of a fight when Bran warged into him, which could mean that Bran didn't think much of it.

Varamyr on the other hand, is aware of the "laws" and breaks them anyway. He has warged into both animals and humans who have resisted him, but he doesn't care.

I personally like to think that warging symbolically represents sex, rape and consent. We know GRRM is very familiar with feminist issues, so he would of course know a lot about this particular topic.

I like your relation of warging to rape and consent.

Still, I differ with you on the part I've bolded in your post.

Quote

but Hodor has only been very scared and didn't put up much of a fight when Bran warged into him, which could mean that Bran didn't think much of it.

I differ because the following is one of the saddest texts I've read in ASoIaF

Quote

Bran remembered a time when no one could climb as good as him, not even Robb or Jon. Part of him wanted to shout at them for leaving him, and another part wanted to cry. He was almost a man grown, though, so he said nothing. But after they were gone, he slipped inside Hodor's skin and followed them.

The big stableboy no longer fought him as he had the first time, back in the lake tower during the storm. Like a dog who has had all the fight whipped out of him, Hodor would curl up and hide whenever Bran reached out for him. His hiding place was somewhere deep within him, a pit where not even Bran could touch him. No one wants to hurt you, Hodor, he said silently, to the child-man whose flesh he'd taken. I just want to be strong again for a while. I'll give it back, the way I always do.

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

[The Hoare]

20 hours ago, Josette DuPres said:

But do we really need to kill the children like many shows on youtube and a number of forum replies here are suggesting?  That sounds evil to me to extinct an entire species just because they present a potential threat to man.  Downright selfish even if it's humanists.  It is inhumane even if it's pro humans.

In question of survival, there's no such thing as good or evil.

[snow is the man]

Wait what is this about?

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

Wait what is this about?

It is a very good question.

There are a few things transpiring. Actual Martin ASOIAF fans that are not American english speakers and the pranksters. Which one do you think @Josette DuPres is?

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

The Children of the Forest had every right to fight with the First Men.  It's even possible that it was they who created the others as biological weapons against the first men.

Is there any hint of this in Martin’s books? I am asking,

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

They practice human and animal sacrifice to the trees.  It is cruel and will have to stop.  But do we really need to kill the children like many shows on youtube and a number of forum replies here are suggesting?

I’m not sure what you are suggesting.

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

That sounds evil to me to extinct an entire species just because they present a potential threat to man.  Downright selfish even if it's humanists.  It is inhumane even if it's pro humans.

Understandable.

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

Slitting the victims' throats and watering the trees with their blood is wrong.  However we can think out of the box and find a solution that feeds the trees without murdering people and killing animals.  

Okay.

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

If the Red Cross can ask for blood donations why can't the kingdom do the same?  Instead of burning/burying/freezing the dead, which is a waste of flesh, why not donate the body to the children to feed their trees.

Did you have cocktails this morning? Try some cheese, fruit and crackers.

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

The ironborn have to stop their reaving ways, the wildlings their raiding, the Dothraki their slaving, and the Children their blood sacrificing.  It just takes someone with the means to push through the resistance to change.  

Who do you think is going to change the Ironborn, Dothraki, and CotF?

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

The skin changers are a dangerous threat to free will but even they should not be killed to extinction.  They are the best candidate for extinction in my opinion, but I would rather have them settled away from man instead.  

I dunna understand.

[U. B. Cool]

15 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

No one wants to hurt you, Hodor, he said silently, to the child-man whose flesh he'd taken. I just want to be strong again for a while. I'll give it back, the way I always do.

A day might come when Bran chooses not to give it back.  Self-pity and addiction could drive Bran to the dark side.  

[U. B. Cool]

On 6/10/2017 at 4:11 PM, Josette DuPres said:

The Children of the Forest had every right to fight with the First Men.  It's even possible that it was they who created the others as biological weapons against the first men.  They practice human and animal sacrifice to the trees.  It is cruel and will have to stop.  But do we really need to kill the children like many shows on youtube and a number of forum replies here are suggesting?  That sounds evil to me to extinct an entire species just because they present a potential threat to man.  Downright selfish even if it's humanists.  It is inhumane even if it's pro humans.

Slitting the victims' throats and watering the trees with their blood is wrong.  However we can think out of the box and find a solution that feeds the trees without murdering people and killing animals.  If the Red Cross can ask for blood donations why can't the kingdom do the same?  Instead of burning/burying/freezing the dead, which is a waste of flesh, why not donate the body to the children to feed their trees.  The ironborn have to stop their reaving ways, the wildlings their raiding, the Dothraki their slaving, and the Children their blood sacrificing.  It just takes someone with the means to push through the resistance to change.  

The skin changers are a dangerous threat to free will but even they should not be killed to extinction.  They are the best candidate for extinction in my opinion, but I would rather have them settled away from man instead.  

There were no humans on Westeros until the arrival of the First Men.  The species stayed away from each other.  They had their own corner of the the world, so to speak.  Perhaps that is the final solution.  Humans would leave Westeros and let the children tend to their trees as much as they want.  

[Clegane'sPup]

Martin’s CotF kept retreating. Even may have tried to bring the hammer of the waters down at Moat Catlin as a last ditch effort.

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Theon IV   "Frogeaters don't smell like men," Frey insisted. "They have a boggy stink, like frogs and trees and scummy water. Moss grows under their arms in place of hair, and they can live with nothing to eat but mud and breathe swamp water."

Theon was about to tell him what he ought to do with his wet nurse's fable when Maester Luwin spoke up. "The histories say the crannogmen grew close to the children of the forest in the days when the greenseers tried to bring the hammer of the waters down upon the Neck. It may be that they have secret knowledge."

Suddenly the wood seemed a deal darker than it had a moment before, as if a cloud had passed before the sun. It was one thing to have some fool boy spouting folly, but maesters were supposed to be wise. "The only children that concern me are Bran and Rickon," Theon said. "Back to the stream. Now."

 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Reek II    He was being watched. He could feel the eyes. When he looked up, he caught a glimpse of pale faces peering from behind the battlements of the Gatehouse Tower and through the broken masonry that crowned the Children's Tower, where legend said the children of the forest had once called down the hammer of the waters to break the lands of Westeros in two.

The only dry road through the Neck was the causeway, and the towers of Moat Cailin plugged its northern end like a cork in a bottle. The road was narrow, the ruins so positioned that any enemy coming up from the south must pass beneath and between them. To assault any of the three towers, an attacker must expose his back to arrows from the other two, whilst climbing damp stone walls festooned with streamers of slimy white ghostskin. The swampy ground beyond the causeway was impassable, an endless morass of suckholes, quicksands, and glistening green swards that looked solid to the unwary eye but turned to water the instant you trod upon them, the whole of it infested with venomous serpents and poisonous flowers and monstrous lizard lions with teeth like daggers. Just as dangerous were its people, seldom seen but always lurking, the swamp-dwellers, the frog-eaters, the mud-men. Fenn and Reed, Peat and Boggs, Cray and Quagg, Greengood and Blackmyre, those were the sorts of names they gave themselves. The ironborn called them all bog devils.

 

Interestingly it appears that no invading army made it past the Neck or would that be Moat Cailin?

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

LOL holy shit @Josette DuPres

Those are some interesting morals you have there, let me see if I can summarize your beliefs:

• murder is wrong
• the religious sacrifice of animals is wrong
• giving blood donations to the tree gods is fine
• reaving is wrong
• raiding is wrong
• slavery is wrong
• skinchangers are dangerous and we should banish them to another realm

Particularly, that last one, is a questionable moral position to say the least.  

I shall respond to your moral claims with the following points:

• murder is wrong  
• the religious sacrifice of animals is morally ambiguous, but I would argue that it certainly no worse than killing animals for food
• giving blood donations to the weirnet is possibly causing all the problems in the world, and is potentially worse than murder, and should probably be stopped
• raiding, reaving, and slavery are wrong, but you can't just tell people to stop; you must address the underlying economic and cultural causes of such actions
• banishing the skinchangers is not only somewhat evil but stupid too; instead of keeping them all somewhat separated from each other geographically and implicitly watched/monitored by their communities and accepting them as friends and fellow humans, let's take all the most powerful/dangerous people we can find, antagonize them, and put them all TOGETHER in some other country and hope they don't combine forces and wage war against us, the people who spurned them and denied them all meaningful economic opportunities in life

Anyways, read the link in my signature if you want. Not only would killing the COTF (who are also humans) be evil, but killing the Others (who are, like the COTF, also humans) would also be evil.

[snow is the man]

How many children of the forest are left? I may be wrong but there is less then a hundred in one place. Not really a threat anymore.

Why hurt skin changers they are for the most part only trying to live.

I really don't see how anyone can tame the dothraki and the iron born.

[snow is the man]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

LOL holy shit @Josette DuPres

Those are some interesting morals you have there, let me see if I can summarize your beliefs:

• murder is wrong
• the religious sacrifice of animals is wrong
• giving blood donations to the tree gods is fine
• reaving is wrong
• raiding is wrong
• slavery is wrong
• skinchangers are dangerous and we should banish them to another realm

Particularly, that last one, is a questionable moral position to say the least.  

I shall respond to your moral claims with the following points:

• murder is wrong  
• the religious sacrifice of animals is morally ambiguous, but I would argue that it certainly no worse than killing animals for food
• giving blood donations to the weirnet is possibly causing all the problems in the world, and is potentially worse than murder, and should probably be stopped
• raiding, reaving, and slavery are wrong, but you can't just tell people to stop; you must address the underlying economic and cultural causes of such actions
• banishing the skinchangers is not only somewhat evil but stupid too; instead of keeping them all somewhat separated from each other geographically and implicitly watched/monitored by their communities and accepting them as friends and fellow humans, let's take all the most powerful/dangerous people we can find, antagonize them, and put them all TOGETHER in some other country and hope they don't combine forces and wage war against us, the people who spurned them and denied them all meaningful economic opportunities in life

Anyways, read the link in my signature if you want. Not only would killing the COTF (who are also humans) be evil, but killing the Others (who are, like the COTF, also humans) would also be evil.

What do you mean giving blood to the weirnet is causing all the problems? I had a hard time with bran's storyline so I missed some things.

[snow is the man]

Also the children of  the forest were essentially invaded by the first men. It would be like someone coming into your country and saying alright this is mine now. Can't really blame them for fighting back.

[White Ravens]

On 6/10/2017 at 1:42 PM, TMIFairy said:

And we should save the whales while we are at it.

Won't somebody please think of the Children?