Have mercy on the Children of the Forest

[Prof. Cecily]

8 hours ago, Enzo Ferrari said:

A day might come when Bran chooses not to give it back.  Self-pity and addiction could drive Bran to the dark side.  

I think you have a good point, @Enzo Ferrari.

And I'd  go further and argue that the phrase

23 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Like a dog who has had all the fight whipped out of him, Hodor would curl up and hide whenever Bran reached out for him. His hiding place was somewhere deep within him, a pit where not even Bran could touch him.

shows us that Bran has already taken those steps. 

We loathe Ramsey for his abuse of Reek- is this treatment of another sentient being really so different?

[White Ravens]

7 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I think you have a good point, @Enzo Ferrari.

And I'd  go further and argue that the phrase

shows us that Bran has already taken those steps. 

We loathe Ramsey for his abuse of Reek- is this treatment of another sentient being really so different?

I'll go out on a limb and say:  Yes, it really is so different.   Not to try to make it into an apology for Bran's behavior but there are some key things that are different here.  Ramsay's abuses and tortures are the acts of a fully grown adult and are entirely malicious and done with intent to harm, subdue and control Reek.  Bran first enters Hodor's mind in a state of panic and in an effort to quiet Hodor and protect the group from being discovered in the Queenscrown tower.    Bran is something like nine years old and has lost the use of his legs.  He later skinchanges into Hodor when they arrive at the cave of Bloodraven to fight wights and protect his group.  Once inside the cave Bran continues to skinchange into Hodor and these instances are more dark and disturbing because they seem to be more casual and unnecessary.  Bran's continued efforts to slip into Hodor's mind are a violation of Hodor, certainly, but I'm not inclined to think that Bran is as evil and dark as Ramsay Bolton. 

 

[Prof. Cecily]

21 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

I'll go out on a limb and say:  Yes, it really is so different.   Not to try to make it into an apology for Bran's behavior but there are some key things that are different here.  Ramsay's abuses and tortures are the acts of a fully grown adult and are entirely malicious and done with intent to harm, subdue and control Reek.  Bran first enters Hodor's mind in a state of panic and in an effort to quiet Hodor and protect the group from being discovered in the Queenscrown tower.    Bran is something like nine years old and has lost the use of his legs.  He later skinchanges into Hodor when they arrive at the cave of Bloodraven to fight wights and protect his group.  Once inside the cave Bran continues to skinchange into Hodor and these instances are more dark and disturbing because they seem to be more casual and unnecessary.  Bran's continued efforts to slip into Hodor's mind are a violation of Hodor, certainly, but I'm not inclined to think that Bran is as evil and dark as Ramsay Bolton. 

 

I can see your point about the first two instances of Bran's skinchanging, yes, indeed.

Of course you're right, Ramsay was a most ill-considered choice for my comparison.

 

And, in fact, you use precisely the word which defines for me the wrongness of Bran's continued rape of Hodor- casual.

Perhaps it would be fairer to compare Bran with Victarion Greyjoy, in that they both casually abuse a person in their power. Bran, Hodor y Victarion, the Dusky Woman.

 

 

[White Ravens]

4 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I can see your point about the first two instances of Bran's skinchanging, yes, indeed.

Of course you're right, Ramsay was a most ill-considered choice for my comparison.

 

And, in fact, you use precisely the word which defines for me the wrongness of Bran's continued rape of Hodor- casual.

Perhaps it would be fairer to compare Bran with Victarion Greyjoy, in that they both casually abuse a person in their power. Bran, Hodor y Victarion, the Dusky Woman.

 

 

Bran's behavior is problematic but I keep coming back to the fact that he is a child navigating some scary situations and super powers so I tend to cut him more slack than I would if he were an adult. 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

On 6/12/2017 at 0:02 AM, snow is the man said:

What do you mean giving blood to the weirnet is causing all the problems? I had a hard time with bran's storyline so I missed some things.

If you have a few hours, feel free to read my personal grand theory about the weirnet. Long story short, I think the "Old Gods" who live inside the weirnet have nefariously set up the entire war between humans and the Others. They are generally responsible for the entire plot. And sacrificing more skinchangers and greenseers into the weirnet just makes it stronger.

[Prof. Cecily]

12 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Bran's behavior is problematic but I keep coming back to the fact that he is a child navigating some scary situations and super powers so I tend to cut him more slack than I would if he were an adult. 

That is wise and generous and just @White Ravens!

And when I consider what a blighter of a 9 year old I was, well, I think I'll go back to perusing ancient R+L=J threads.

3 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

If you have a few hours, feel free to read my personal grand theory about the weirnet. Long story short, I think the "Old Gods" who live inside the weirnet have nefariously set up the entire war between humans and the Others. They are generally responsible for the entire plot. And sacrificing more skinchangers and greenseers into the weirnet just makes it stronger.

I remember the first time I read that theory of yours. 

For days, I couldn't walk past the ancient cork trees in my village without being tempted to kick one.

[myhalfgroat]

I'm down with the idea that the ironborn, wildlings, and Dothraki need to cut out their savagery on other people, but I don't think the children need to stop their sacrifices, provided the person is dying for a reason. murder in the public sphere is wrong, but death by punishment (in many cultures) is not. so if the children are just grabbing people walking down the road and killing them, well that's bad. but if they're killing people who live in their territory and break the rules, it's all good. sickle away.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

4 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I remember the first time I read that theory of yours. 

For days, I couldn't walk past the ancient cork trees in my village without being tempted to kick one.

LOL I'm glad it had an impact