Graydon Hicks Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 i know that prophecy was rhaegar's madness, that he became obsessed with it. but what sparked it? you dont just read about it in a book and decide "oh, i think im going to go slightly crazy and bring my kingdom to the brink of ruin, and have my house exiled, just to try and bring a obscure prophecy about the end of the world to pass." could someone have goaded him to it? urged him to bring it about, and fed his obsession with it? i know melisandre is a lot older than she appears, that the prophecy of azor ahai, the prince that was promised, seems to originate withim the religion of the red god. could she have been interferring in westeros for longer than we've seen so far, before declaring stannis the fulfillment of the prophecy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hoare Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Being a Targaryen, perharps he had a dragon dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 He was raised with delicate dainty highborn girls and married a woman so physically weak she almost died giving birth to their second child. He saw a woman who was highborn, strong, tough and could ride circles around him. After that, he just followed his royal scepter to his grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Wait do you mean him being with lyana? I think that it was more that he loved her then prophecy. I think it was mentioned that he didn't love his wife and not just because she was sickly. Lyana was everything that elia martell was not. I think the story is more about desire being extremly dangerous when it comes to lyanna and rhegar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I'm not sure Rhaegar was insane at all. Dany's pretty focused on her mission. Ned was pretty focused on his mission. Mel is focused on her mission. Rhaegar was focused. He studied and I'm not sure there were a lot of people he could ask for clarification of his subject. The Targs themselves bought into the whole thing on the word of a woods witch. For all we know she was a COTF and there is no way for us to know if their intentions are good. We see through Mel repeatedly that prophecy is easy to misinterpret. We can't even come up with a collective consensus regarding Quaithe. I think Rhaegar was raised thinking he was TPTWP. People told him this from day 1. This guy had to have a slightly skewered sense of self importance, but it wasn't necessarily his fault. I often suppose Rhaegar had an epiphany during his teenage years which led him to believe he wasn't the guy, but that it would be his son. Right or wrong, son or sister, the Prince That Was Promised is supposed to come from this line of Targs. At the time Rhaegar became aware of his misinterpretation, even if he was wrong, it was his job to fulfill the prophecy. His wife, who was both friend and fan, was incapable of birthing another child. I think it's likely Elia was as enmeshed in the prophecy as her husband. For all we know Rhaegar confided in Elia and she actually encouraged him to pursue Lyanna. I think the whole thing is more likely a conspiracy than betrayal or madness. Who knows with Mel? The Ghost of High Heart was already there. Mel wouldn't have been required, but sure, she could have been around forever--but why? Why insinuate herself in the Rhaegar thing and still stick around for another 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMADdestScientist_ Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 16 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said: i know that prophecy was rhaegar's madness, that he became obsessed with it. but what sparked it? you dont just read about it in a book and decide "oh, i think im going to go slightly crazy and bring my kingdom to the brink of ruin, and have my house exiled Saying this whitout paying attention to the details is very easy. You need to remember that Rhaegar was born out of a prophecy. His parents only married because of The Prince That Was Promised. Rhaegar, being as intelligent as he was(according to the maesters that teached him), would have taken notice of this. He found something in his scrolls, and the rest came easy for him. Barristan calls him dutiful, so it makes it easy to understand why Rhaegar wanted to do his part. Because it was necessary. Since Jon is set to be the Messiah. At the very least, Rhaegar was not wrong about the most important part of the prophecy. He knew he had a part to play. ASOIAF is a world where prophecies come true(in one way or another). Many characters discuss prophecies along the story. Prophecy seems to be a big part of Sam Tarly's arc in the last books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U. B. Cool Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 So why did he need to be a warrior? Skill at arms is not how you beat the supernatural Others. We have noting in the text to suggests that Rhaegar started collecting obsidian. I think what he read predicted the coming rebellion. He knew rebellion was coming and realized he would have to lead the royal forces into battle against human enemies if it can't be stopped. Against human foes, not the kind that you need obsidian for. The kind you can kill with steel. His behavior at the tournament supports this. Lyanna was the linchpin of the conspiracy against his house and he acted to seduce her away from Robert. Something happened at the tourney and he came to respect her. He chose at that moment to leave her out of his political game. But Lyanna was already smitten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon VII Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Rhaegar would often go to summerhall alone with his harp. The gohh trades dreams/visions in exchange for a song from tom o sevens. I believe rhaegar had a similar arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I think we would have heard about Mel or any Red Priest or Priestess other than Thoros being in King's Landing. Especially if he/she was spending time with the Crown Prince. Quaithe on the other hand could be a possibility since she can appear and disappear like an imaginary friend. I wonder if Rhaegar ever considered that Viserys may be the Prince that was Promised seeing as Rhaegar would become a King while Viserys would always be a prince. If he believed Aegon was the Prince that was Promised you'd think he would have done more to protect him and not leave him with his nut job father. Perhaps give Elia and her kids one Kingsguard instead of giving his mistress 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgirly Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 It might've been many things besides the books he read that did it. I believe he encountered strange people such as the Ghost of High Heart. Also it seems as if Rhaegar travelled a lot to places, visiting Summerhall for one. He used to go there often by himself with his harp, and look at the stars. He knew the stories of Jenny Oldstones the peasant girl and Duncan Targaryen, the forbidden love that happened. He knew and loved stories of dragons and Valyria. I'm sure he would loved to have visited ancient ruins one day. I felt that he was explorative as well as a reader. For that reason he must've had a vivid imagination and was full of inspiration, dreams and ideas. His life with Elia was becoming stale, only because she was very ill and couldn't continue having more children. He was probably sad by this, but also wanted a new life with a wild wolfmaiden of the north. Now he understood the Starks well enough, and he also found their dress sense "grey". As grey as wolves. This mans daydreams, adventurous streak, love of history and seeker of new things led him to going away with Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 11.06.2017 at 7:28 AM, Graydon Hicks said: i know that prophecy was rhaegar's madness, that he became obsessed with it. but what sparked it? you dont just read about it in a book and decide "oh, i think im going to go slightly crazy and bring my kingdom to the brink of ruin, and have my house exiled, just to try and bring a obscure prophecy about the end of the world to pass." Huh. I don't think that turning the kingdom into shit and bringing the downfall of his dynasty was Rhaegar's intended goal (although, sure, go and prove me wrong). However, sometimes a character will discover (through completely rational means, even) the impending doom of the world as we know it, and will do everything in his power to avert it, even though that makes him look slightly crazy to bystanders. Like Hari Seldon, with his psychohistory and his Foundation. That, unlike Rhaegar's actions, seemed completely meshuge to his contemporaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrinceThatKnewNothing Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 On 6/12/2017 at 3:11 AM, Aegon VII said: Rhaegar would often go to summerhall alone with his harp. The gohh trades dreams/visions in exchange for a song from tom o sevens. I believe rhaegar had a similar arrangement. I agree. And I also believe Rhaegar made Jenny's song. HoHH is probably the person who told Rhaegar he isn't the promised Prince. And probably also told Rhaegar about Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 On 6/12/2017 at 4:11 AM, Aegon VII said: Rhaegar would often go to summerhall alone with his harp. The gohh trades dreams/visions in exchange for a song from tom o sevens. I believe rhaegar had a similar arrangement. A similar arrangement with the GoHH? I like the idea. Do you have a source for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I can see what the OP is getting at. I'm hoping there is still a missing piece of the puzzle. The World of Ice and Fire is full of prophecy, so I feel an inclination to believe there was something exceptional about the one that clearly rang so true for Rhaegar. It obviously really motivated him. It seems like he started preparing for this prophecy long before he met Lyanna so you have to wonder what it was that made him decide that she was a piece of the puzzle. If he thought it might be a daughter of Winterfell all along,why didn't he make a move sooner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graydon Hicks Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 thats why i think it might not have been just him finding a prophecy in a book, but maybe had someone tell it to him, encourage him to believe it. i know he is the product of his family trying to fulfill a prophecy, but i doubt aerys cared about such a thing by the time rhaegar was born, so i dont think aerys or rhaella were the ones to keep him in line for it. i think it was someone else. im only guessing at melisandre, because i know she is much older than she appears, and i know that both her azor ahai, and rhaegars prince that was promised are related, if not the same damn thing. buts its only a loose hypothesis based on her own consistency in trying to manipulate the royals, legit or not, to push her religion, by proclaiming the royal she supports as the savior figure. so i have to think, maybe shes been palying at this game long before she joined stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon VII Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 On June 13, 2017 at 0:28 PM, Prof. Cecily said: A similar arrangement with the GoHH? I like the idea. Do you have a source for this? It comes from pure analysis. We know rhaegar was going to summerhall by himself and coming back with songs. We know gohh is still around summerhall, claims she gorged on grief there, claims Jenny's song is the only song, and trades visions for it. Rhaegar is repeatedly described as playing a sad soft song, that would bring maidens to tears, that sounded as though the dead kings he was singing of were from his own life. It fits that this is Jenny's song that rhaegar created for gohh and she traded visions for it as she had with tom o sevens. There's a good Jenny's song theory I would check out. On June 13, 2017 at 11:20 AM, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said: I agree. And I also believe Rhaegar made Jenny's song. HoHH is probably the person who told Rhaegar he isn't the promised Prince. And probably also told Rhaegar about Lyanna. Yeah I agree with most of this. Maybe not telling about lyanna specifically, but more saying tptwp would have asoiaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, Aegon VII said: It comes from pure analysis. We know rhaegar was going to summerhall by himself and coming back with songs. We know gohh is still around summerhall, claims she gorged on grief there, claims Jenny's song is the only song, and trades visions for it. Rhaegar is repeatedly described as playing a sad soft song, that would bring maidens to tears, that sounded as though the dead kings he was singing of were from his own life. It fits that this is Jenny's song that rhaegar created for gohh and she traded visions for it as she had with tom o sevens. There's a good Jenny's song theory I would check out. Yeah I agree with most of this. Maybe not telling about lyanna specifically, but more saying tptwp would have asoiaf. I don't discount Rhaegar could have had contact with with GoHH in his melancholy sojourns at the ruins of Summerhall. I must consult the maps to see how viable that idea is. I'm still finding my way around Westeros' geography. Quote There's a good Jenny's song theory I would check out. Shout us a link for this, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Actually, I do discount Rhaegar managed to fit in visits to High Heart on his solo journeys to Summerhall. Look at the maps. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/High_Heart http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Summerhall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon VII Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said: Actually, I do discount Rhaegar managed to fit in visits to High Heart on his solo journeys to Summerhall. Look at the maps. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/High_Heart http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Summerhall https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/composer-of-prophecy-rhaegars-song-of-love-and-doom/#more-461 and the theory isn't that rhaegar ever went to high heart, I apologize if I misled. The gohh states she gorged on grief at summerhall, this theory suggests she stayed at summerhall and was there when rhaegar visited it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Thanks for the link! I have a looong hot afternoon before me and yes, this sort of reading appeals to me very much. 34 minutes ago, Aegon VII said: https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/composer-of-prophecy-rhaegars-song-of-love-and-doom/#more-461 and the theory isn't that rhaegar ever went to high heart, I apologize if I misled. The gohh states she gorged on grief at summerhall, this theory suggests she stayed at summerhall and was there when rhaegar visited it. Hmmmm. I live in a country with 2,000 year old ruins and many many ruined medieval castles, etc. And then there are the dolmens. Trust me. Not places you'd hang out in. Places to stop and photograph, perhaps meditate in, compose a song à la Rhaegar. And journey on to a decent posada known for its good wine. Anyway, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.