Will Sansa’s Unkiss amount to nothing more than the active over imagination of a young girl concerning the guy that protected her?

[Houseofthedirewolves]

11 hours ago, Newstar said:

So what? Sandor's not lying about any of it. He did kill Mycah. He did stand there and let the KG beat Sansa. He did force Sansa to sing for him. If he then in his very next breath after a series of confessions we know to be true confessions admits that he meant to rape Sansa that night, there's no reason to disbelieve him. Sansa knows that Sandor meant to rape her that night as well, which is why she blends her near-miss rape on her wedding night with Sandor in the dream.

There's really no way around this for SanSan fans: there's no ambiguity, no wiggle room, no space for denial. Sandor meant to rape Sansa that night. He admits as much, and Sansa intuits as much, which explains the ASOS dream and which also explains why she's so determined to focus on the memory of a kiss which never happened. Better that than admit to herself that someone she came to view as a protector and someone she believed would never hurt her violently attacked her with rape in mind.

 

It's not unrealistic. It's completely consistent with how GRRM has written Sansa's character, as someone who has a loose relationship with the facts when they don't suit her and who keeps making the same mistake of repressing unpleasant realities in favour of fantasies over and over again. The Hound is the most important instance of this, since she has constructed a fantasy which is so detailed that she has conjured up fake memories of sensations, a trick she's never managed with all her previous delusions.

Sansa at this point in her character development, if she truly is developing as a character and learning from her mistakes, after what happened with Joffrey, with Cersei, with the Tyrells, and with Dontos, should not be this blind. She should be sitting down with herself, reflecting on how letting herself succumb to comforting delusions has gotten her into all kinds of trouble, and resolving to be honest with herself and the past, no matter how unpleasant it may feel. Of course, Sansa seems to be going in the opposite direction, lying to herself and dreaming up a romantic Hound fantasy that's more detailed than any of her other delusions. Not a good sign. If she hasn't learned by now, will she ever learn?

 

Sansa keeps making the same mistakes. We're four books in, and despite Sansa's supposed character growth she's still spinning fantasies in the same way that got her into so much trouble in AGOT in the first place. She has swapped out Joffrey (the loving prince attacked by Mycah) and Cersei (the gracious, kindhearted, trustworthy queen) for Littlefinger (her father figure who only has her best interests at heart) and the Hound (her romantic protector who kissed her and would never hurt her). Different characters, similar lies.

 

There's no "mental strength" in lying to oneself because the truth is too harsh. That shows weakness, not strength. Tyrion in AGOT admired Jon's willingness to face a hard truth. Why? Because there's nothing admirable about self-delusion. Sansa's going to have to learn that the hard way, if indeed she ever learns it at all. She seems rather too susceptible to Littlefinger's little lessons about the value of lying these days.

Exactly. Sansa has continued her faithful habit of hiding away from the unpleasant truth so that she can continue holding on to the pretty picture that she painted.

•Joffrey was involved in her losing lady. Sansa cannot face that. She's NOT READY to give up her beautiful dream. Sansa convinces herself that Joffrey was innocent. Only Cersei and Arya are to hate for what happened. Joffrey is too beautiful to hate. This altering of what happened allows her to KEEP HER DREAMS.

•The Hound invades her room and traumatizes her? She's NOT READY to face that. He's been her constant protector in King's landing. He symbolizes the strength that she lacks. The protection that she needs. She's NOT READY to give that up. So she convinces herself that Blackwater wasn't as traumatic as it actually was. In fact, it was romantic. The Hound kissed her. This altering of what happened allows her to KEEP HER PROTECTOR.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

On 6/12/2017 at 11:25 PM, Rhae_Valarie said:

My personal theory:

There is something important coming up that has something to do with Sansa's unreliable memory. It fits the pattern of George'e three fold revelation strategy. The subtle hint was Sansa remembering the the wrong name for Joffrey's sword. The more obvious hint was the Unkiss. Which means that there is going to be an obvious instance that will have some importance to the story.

Any theories on what it will be?

Nope. But I can't wait to find out.

 

On 6/13/2017 at 2:09 AM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

 The point is... George is repeatedly hammering us with an association so that must mean it's important.  We should probably pay attention to things we see over and over.  Very specifically this dog-wolf juxtaposition happens in reference to Lady / Sandor.  I'm sorry you don't get the idea of metaphor in literature and ravenous reader I think laid it out pretty well.  If you don't see it, you don't see it.

Very nice.  I'll see your quote and raise you another!

All 3 have associations with the Hound.  If you recall, Sansa overheard the washerwomen gossiping and it involved the Hound (except she thought they were actually talking about fighting skill :

 

"The point is... George is repeatedly hammering us with an association so that must mean it's important.  We should probably pay attention to things we see over and over.  Very specifically this dog-wolf juxtaposition happens in reference to Lady / Sandor"

• Rereading the passages, a new idea came to me concerning Sansa's view of the Hound as her protector and how she often thinks of him when she needs protection. The Hound is her protector (that has been established). Swords remind her of him, danger makes her think of him. Other strong fighters calls him to mind. He's is likened to a dog which is similar to direwolves (protector of the Starks). Sansa lost her direwolf's protection, the Hound has become her new protector.

•Get her a dog she would be happier for it - King Robert said. If Sansa can't have a direwolf protecting her? Why not have her own appointed warrior knight, the Hound?

• After spending more time reading and analyzing, I have slightly shifted my view point about what George has in store concerning the Hound/Sansa connection. I still do not believe it to be a romantic one. That has not changed. But I now believe that Sansa will end up knighting him and naming him her personal knight.

    1) The Hound has always rejected the concept of knighthood. He goes as far to tell Sansa that there are no true knights. His experience with his brother burning him, only for Gregor to "be rewarded"  by becoming an anointed knight has left him pretty bitter about knights.

    2)  Sansa's experiences with knights have also been bitter. After being beaten and humiliated by them, she is left pretty disillusioned about the notion of gallant knights.

•George RR Martin has a known obsession with knights. He can be using Sansa's and the Hound's negative experiences with knights as a way for them to develop a bond that will lead to healing for both of them. 

•It wouldn't be a stretch to say there is foreshadowing that hints to the Hound being named an anointed Knight by Sansa. And Sansa naming him her personal knight. He will now be recognized OFFICIALLY as her protector. Furthermore, something that he used to hate (knights) he now embraces with pride. Something that Sansa became disillusioned about (knights that protect fair maidens) she now believes in once more. Although it's not the handsome knights that she adored before.

 

 

"All 3 have associations with the Hound.  If you recall, Sansa overheard the washerwomen gossiping and it involved the Hound (except she thought they were actually talking about fighting skill"

• Another example of Sansa thinking of the Hound in terms of fighting, protection, strength, things that represent what the Hound symbolizes to her. A protector. A warrior to keep her safe. The more I reread the passages, the more I think that Sansa will end up knighting the Hound and making him her personal knight. 

 

 

• But also like people pointed out, the Hound shares with Arya his feelings of remorse about Sansa. And they all center around his in/ability to protect Sansa. He regrets not protecting her from getting beaten. He regrets not protecting her from Tyrion. But he is proud to have protected her from the mob (as someone pointed out). So as I reread those passages, I once again saw this connection that George continues to weave of the Hound being Sansa's protector.

He has even gone as far as to show how remorseful the Hound is about the times that he did not protect Sansa. Without doubt, I fully see the Hound becoming her personal knight. The guy that hated knights ends up as one. The girl that was disillusioned about knights starts to believe in them again. But not the pretty knights that she grew up idolizing.

 

The Hound → hates knight → mocks Sansa over her belief in them → but he constantly protects her → remorseful about the times he did not protect her and proud of when he does → becomes her personal knight sworn to protect her and proud of being a knight

 

Sansa grew up adoring beautiful gallant knights → reality hits her in kingslanding along with multiple knights who brutally beat and humiliate her → she becomes disillusioned about the beautiful gallant knights in the pretty songs → the scarred Hound is as fierce as any knight (but he spits on the thought of knights) and he protects her → Even when she leaves Kingslanding she constantly thinks of him and his strength and protection when she is in frightening situations → He is not the beautiful knight that she grew up with but he is the knight that she chooses. -> She ends up making him an official knight and he gladly swears to protect her.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

20 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And yet he appears in the dream you call a rape-nightmare

 

Then why does she look for Dontos to save her from the mob-dream?

 

Stockholm syndrome is another word for trauma-bonding, with stockholm only used in hostage taking situations. And it's the fashion word for plenty of POV characters, often in totally wrongly applied situations. Trauma-bonding is the term used within an abusive relationship (family, guardians and partners).

While stockholm is a famous term (and horribly misunderstood), as a phenomenon it rarely happens. Trauma-bonding is an extremely intense hormonal bond formed in a relationship where the abuser switches between violence (putting the victim in physical danger, or threaten to harm or kill them) and rewarding. It gives the victim the illusion that they are responsible on how they are treated by the abuser, and that if they please the abuser and be good, they lower the risk of harm or death. This however occurs on a subconscioius level. The victim will experience it as the abuser needing them and becomes extremely empathic towards the abuser (subconscious it's how people aim to predict the mood the abuser is in). Such a bond is stronger even than a healthy love bond. As a result, the victim cannot bear the idea of separation, and if they are separated from the abuser they will attempt to return to them. 

Most hostage or captor-prisoner relationships lack such a dynamic, and therefore no stockholm ensues. The only situation that Sansa was in for us to begin to consider the term Stockholm was when she was a hostage at the Red Keep and abused by Joffrey. However, he only abuses (never rewards) and that for events that are completely outside her power and control. And even when she attempts to placate him he does not reward her. Hence, she never feels that she can't do without Joffrey once the abuse starts, and has no stockholm. Not even the attempts to placate Joffrey can be called evidence fo Stockholm, because she doesn't do this to make him love her, nor out of misguided empathy with him, let alone for him.

While Littlefinger is definitely grooming her, he has never been violent towards her that she knows of. She does not display placating behavior towards him to prevent violence from him. She does not even empathize with him. And if somebody were to take her away from him, she won't be overcome with the strong compulsion to return to him. So, neither stockholm,nor trauma-bond is in evidence.

There is only one situation and one POV who qualifies for Stockholm, and that is Theon and only in relation to Ramsay.

This is pure speculation that is not even actually backed up by text. After he saved her from a mob, and she dreams of it, he is not present in the dream and she's looking for Dontos (the foolish, fat, drunk). She also knew that the Hound's protection of her against Joffrey was limited and had little to do with brute strength, but depends entirely on political power. Her disillusion with knights is not that they fail to protect her, but that they are actively complicits in abusing her.

 

Show me text where she ever blamed Joffrey for Lady's death before she repressed it? She always blamed Arya, even while the incident at the Trident took place.

 

So, far you have failed to prove your claim. Reasserting it is not evidence.

"And yet he appears in the dream you call a rape-nightmare"

•WELL. NO. DUH. She endured a traumatic sexual related trauma by the singer. HOURS LATER She had a NIGHTMARE about a sexual related trauma involving Tyrion.  

Tyrion doesn't need to mean squat for her to have a nightmare about the trauma that she experienced with him.

Just like she had a nightmare about the men that mobbed her because of how traumatic it was. Nightmares are based on trauma. Not what someone means or doesn't mean to you.

 

 

"Then why does she look for Dontos to save her from the mob-dream?"

•Because Dontos is also another source of help. Doesn't make the Hound any less of her protector just because Dontos was her Florian.

 

 

"Stockholm syndrome is another word for trauma-bonding...There is only one situation and one POV who qualifies for Stockholm, and that is Theon and only in relation to Ramsay."

•Great to know your view. Doesn't change that Sansa has Stockholm syndrome. 

 

"Show me text where she ever blamed Joffrey for Lady's death before she repressed it?"

At first she thought she hated him for what they’d done to Lady, but after Sansa had wept her eyes dry, she told herself that it had not been Joffrey’s doing, not truly. The queen had done it; she was the one to hate, her and Arya.

•Solid blaming of Joffrey right there. She even hated him until she repressed his role in it of course.

 

 

"So, far you have failed to prove your claim. Reasserting it is not evidence."

•You have also failed to prove every claim that you made to me, I guess it works both ways. Funny thing about interpreting text, everyone has a different view.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

13 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I think he keeps Sansa referring to Sandor as the Hound because he is her Beast.

Sansa and the Hound

Beauty and the Beast

I always thought one day she'd call him My Hound. There's a line in Cocteau, near the end, where she calls him My Beast.

Little bird (he loves her song) is his pet name for her. The Hound (he is her Beast) is her pet name for him. (the meaning evolves as the story evolves)

(I put a bunch more stuff here, I love Beauty and the Beast...)

So many characters refer to him as the Hound....

[Houseofthedirewolves]

12 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

There's a really pretty line in the new Beauty and the Beast, that fittingly, says "look at me" just as is so often repeated in the Sansa and the Hound story:

For in that solemn silence is heard in the whisper of every sleeping thing: Look, look at me, come wake me up, for still here I'll be.

That for me is the basis of this story, as all stories like this. They are awakening each other. Sansa says she understands Sandor, that's what they do, they understand each other.

They see each other for who they truly are, and they don't turn away from what they see. Neither one of them is doing this while they are apart, they keep thinking of each other.

They remember how they look and sound and feel, for Sansa it's like he's almost there, she hears his voice, she "remembers" what it feels like to have his lips pressed on hers.

All the desire in the story, that's how they express these things. It's a love story.

"They remember how they look and sound and feel, for Sansa it's like he's almost there, she hears his voice, she "remembers" what it feels like to have his lips pressed on hers."

Except that it never happened. Just one more instance of Sansa altering her memory. And Sansa's own passages have shown us that she has a habit of altering her memory of something when the real incident was traumatic for her. She doesn't do it all the time, but she has a habit. 

But it bodes well for the Hound that she is altering her memory of Blackwater. Because this means that she still needs his protection so her mind is helping her maintain her positive view of him by repressing the trauma and replacing it with something pleasant. 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

11 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Ahh, the Riverlands Web brainchild of Booknerd2.  Best threads in all of Westeros.org as far I'm concerned.  Seek Google, and you will find!

Our dear Booknerd2 aka 'Bookie' wrote most of the those, and here is one I found.  

Link to above dialogue.   

 

There are more Stranger and Sandor in V.7 I think.

 

The Riverlands Web V.1: http://asoiaf.wester...riverlands-web/

The Riverlands Web V.2: http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v2/

The Riverlands Web V.3: http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v3/

The Riverlands Web V.4: http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v4/

The Riverlands Web V.5: http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v5/

The Riverlands Web V.6: http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v6/ 

The Riverlands Web V.7: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/134982-the-riverlands-web-v7/

 

Good stuff! I remembered some of them! SO funny

[Seams]

8 hours ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

• After spending more time reading and analyzing, I have slightly shifted my view point about what George has in store concerning the Hound/Sansa connection. I still do not believe it to be a romantic one. That has not changed. But I now believe that Sansa will end up knighting him and naming him her personal knight.

    1) The Hound has always rejected the concept of knighthood. He goes as far to tell Sansa that there are no true knights. His experience with his brother burning him, only for Gregor to "be rewarded"  by becoming an anointed knight has left him pretty bitter about knights.

    2)  Sansa's experiences with knights have also been bitter. After being beaten and humiliated by them, she is left pretty disillusioned about the notion of gallant knights.

This is interesting and I think it's on the right track. It actually helps to crystalize some of my thinking, although my conclusion is slightly different from yours.

I think The Hound is turning into Sansa's puppet. Like the wooden marionette soldier that was Gregor's toy. I should probably ask @The Fattest Leech to weigh in, as the expert on the Pinocchio symbolism. (Or maybe I should go back and re-read - I apologize if this has already been covered.) Sandor says that Gregor's wonderful wooden knight was appealing to him as a little kid because you could make him fight. Of course, Gregor discovers Sandor playing with the wooden knight and holds his little brother's face in the fire, disfiguring him for life. Their father makes up the excuse that Sandor's bedding caught fire.

Hmm. Where have we seen bedding catch fire in the books? The clue to this Sansa-Sandor relationship might be this: follow the bloody sheets.

Sansa cuts her sheet with a knife and puts it in the fire after she "flowers." She knows that she will lose any hope of power or self-direction if Cersei hears about her bloody sheet, forcing her to marry Joffrey.

After the Battle of the Blackwater, Sansa returns to her room and finds the Hound lying in her bed. Numerous posts in this thread debate the nature of their contact and their dialogue, but then what happens?

The Hound drops his bloody cloak. Sansa picks it up and keeps it. Just as Sansa would lose power if Cersei saw her bloody sheet, the Hound loses power by letting Sansa have his bloody cloak. (Was it deliberate or inadvertent that he dropped the cloak on her floor?)

This is really a new way of looking at cloaks, for me. I always interpreted the Westeros wedding custom as the groom taking possession of the bride by putting the cloak over her shoulders. In some cases (all?) maybe it is a situation where groom is making himself vulnerable, giving up something to the bride. This might help in interpreting Tyrion and Sansa's wedding ceremony, where she refuses to stoop and Tyrion has to stand on the back of a knight / fool in order to put the cloak on her shoulders. It also might explain why Sansa puts on her own cloak in the godswood before escaping King's Landing with Ser Dontos, but then Littlefinger puts a cloak over her shoulders when she gets to the boat. She is already "protected" by her own cloak, so Littlefinger's attempt to cloak/symbolically marry her is just a superficial layer. She is already in charge of her own self at that point.

As for the idea that Sansa will make the Hound her personal knight, I think this might be a fine distinction based on wordplay (you thought I might forget to bring it up just this one time, didn't you?). Sansa's description of The Hound in AGoT, Sansa II indicates that he materializes out of the night, and is a voice in the night like a shadow. I think Sandor will never be a knight because he is The Night. (Based on the gossip of the washerwomen, he may even be the long night.)

Sandor makes himself vulnerable to Sansa - he tells her the true story (we assume) about his face being burned but orders her not to tell anyone else. So there is a unique bond there from that early point. When he tells her this story, he stubs out a torch he is carrying, extinguishing the fire. I think it is a huge relief for him that someone knows and extinguishing the torch represents the relief he feels in connecting with her. In a strange way, even though I still see the unkiss scene as a symbolic rape, he makes himself vulnerable again. He tells her, essentially, that he is scared of fire. This from a man who never admits that he is scared of anything. As other comments have pointed out, she sings a song about the mother's mercy. Compare this to Theon's desperate cries for mercy in the godswood at Winterfell.

The idea of making oneself vulnerable in Sansa's presence might help to clarify the parallels between Ser Dontos Hollard and Sandor Clegane. Ser Dontos appears at the jousting match without any pants on - completely exposed and vulnerable. And what does Sansa do? She saves him. Helps him obtain mercy. With help from - - Sandor Clegane, who chimes in to support her invention of "it's ill luck to kill someone on your name day." If you look at Ser Dontos as the fool-version of Sandor Clegane (and many fools seem to represent other characters, although this may be the first one I can think of who represents a living character), the unkiss and a number of other feelings between Sansa and Sandor take on a new meaning. If Ser Dontos is the mummer-Sandor, he really did kiss her.

I still believe, overall, this complicated relationship with Sandor is leading to, and symbolic of, Sansa empowering herself. But she is doing it in a very dark, goth way. She is becoming the puppeteer of the night. (Gotta go back and read Duncan's infatuation with Tansy now. And look forward to Cersei's puppeteer relationship with Ser Robert Strong.)

P.S. Love that GRRM. Such a clever guy.

[Le Cygne]

The author based the Sansa and the Hound story on his favorite romance and he chose to center the romance on a KISS. Sansa, who loves "kissing stories," is writing a love story for them. She gives us lots of clues, what she tells us, throughout the story.

She tells us she's been thinking about Sandor while lying awake at night in bed, and she wishes he was there, and she regrets not going with him, and she puts his bloody cloak (red on white, classic marriage consummation symbolism) with her summer silks.

The cloak she clutches to her bare breasts and tells us no velvet felt so fine, the cloak she chooses to get under in a scene filled with sexual symbolism. So that's twice Sansa has put Sandor's cloak on herself. A hint there will be a third time.

After dreaming a thousand times of a tall strong man kissing her when she marries him, she keeps  the cloak of a tall strong man who she pretends she kissed in a cedar chest, commonly used as a "hope chest" where young women preparing for marriage keep treasures.

She tells us she understands him, in a special way, because she knows his secret. She wonders where he is. She dreams of him in bed with her, asking for a song, a song she says she'll sing for him gladly one day, a song he remembers with his dying breath.

Then when the other girls are playing kissing games, pretending to kiss a man, she one ups them in her thoughts, she boasts about the kiss, what would the other girls think of her "kissing the Hound, as she had." But she's not done writing her kissing story yet.

This is not the first time she uses Sweetrobin as a kissing stand-in for Sandor (he says let's stay in bed and read stories and kiss). And she has thought of Sandor this way so often, she doesn't even have to name him anymore, and we know who it is.

She simply refers to him as "he" (and she doesn't have to name him in her dream of him in her marriage bed, either, this is a common literary technique to show how often she's been thinking of him). To Sansa, Sandor is the one, he is the "he" to her "she":

"As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak."

That passage is filled with a lot of meaning. "She found herself" because Sandor's kiss helps her find Sansa. She's imagined this so many times, she can almost feel his lips on her own, just like she could almost hear his voice before. And "he had come to her" is what she wants to happen.

And she says "he left me" and he says he left her, too. They both regret that he left her. What a beautiful way of setting up what is to come. When two people regret they are apart, that motivates them to find each other again. Stay tuned for the rest of the story.

[Le Cygne]

Also I'll note that the acronym for "keep it simple, silly" is KISS.

That's a good thing to keep in mind when reading a story, too. Go with the simplest thing first. The author bases a story on his favorite romance and centers it on a kiss.

The simplest thing would be he's telling a romance and she wants to kiss him. Look closely and it turns out there's a boatload of very clear writing to support that.

(And yeah, I was referring to the Sansa and the Hound story above, not the entire saga. And yeah, he's said he's writing romances, as if that's not perfectly clear.)

[Houseofthedirewolves]

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Also I'll note that the acronym for "keep it simple, silly" is KISS.

That's a good thing to keep in mind when reading a story, too. Go with the simplest thing first. The author bases a story on his favorite romance and centers it on a kiss.

The simplest thing would be he's telling a romance and she wants to kiss him. Look closely and it turns out there's a boatload of very clear writing to support that.

What about ASOIAF suggests that George intends to keep anything simple? 

 

" The author bases a story on his favorite romance and centers it on a kiss."

This is not Harlequin romance :/

[Le Cygne]

9 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This is awesome. Brings a tear to my eye to see fans having fun 

Imagine that, having fun!  

[Meera of Tarth]

14 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

 

" The author bases a story on his favorite romance and centers it on a kiss."

This is not Harlequin romance :/

No, it's just a realistic fantasy story with characters that, apart from having their own journeys, feel and fall in love. GRRM likes romance. And includes it in these novels and BATB is one of his favorite stories. Two BATB stories in the same novels.....he was a scriptwriter of the BATB show in the 90's.....and more.

[Newstar]

35 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

What about ASOIAF suggests that George intends to keep anything simple? 

 

" The author bases a story on his favorite romance and centers it on a kiss."

This is not Harlequin romance :/

Sansa's storyline is anti-romantic and always has been. It's about the dangers of losing oneself to comforting lies and glamorous illusions to escape painful realities. It's no coincidence that Sansa's mentor is not only a consummate liar but also built his whole life on a lie (that he took Catelyn's virginity). Her increasingly detailed false "romantic" fantasy about the Hound is part of that. That's why GRRM places so much emphasis on Sansa's repeated pattern of lying to herself when the truth hurts. GRRM is escalating this pattern with the Hound (the fantasy is a "much more important lapse in memory" according to GRRM), since her Hound delusion now includes false sense memories, so it's definitely going somewhere. That "somewhere," however, is somewhere disastrous. GRRM deliberately linked Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey's sword to her mistaken memory about the Hound kissing her, by saying that the former was setting the stage for the latter. With Joffrey, we know Sansa lying to herself about the Trident incident had a number of catastrophic outcomes. Lying to herself about the Hound kissing her and building an increasingly elaborate romantic fantasy around that belief won't work out any better for her.

Sansa's previous failures to face up to reality have cost her a good deal. Sansa's romantic delusion about the Hound will likely cost her as well in much more dramatic fashion when it inevitably comes crashing down around her as her other delusions have. 

GRRM invites the reader to marvel or even laugh at Sansa's ability to lose herself in dumb romantic fantasies, whether they're about Joffrey, Loras, or the Hound, and to breathe a sigh of relief when they're inevitably stripped away. The only real suspense in Sansa's storyline is whether she'll ever wise up, grow up, and stop lying to herself. Will Sansa ever stop fooling herself? If the false memory of the kiss becoming increasingly detailed and Sansa's descriptions of the supposed event growing increasingly romanticized is an indication, probably not. That failure to stop lying to herself will likely be her downfall. 

[Helikzhan]

Whether perceived or real, the Hound represented power to Sansa. Not the kind she read about or initially fantasized about. REAL power. She was raised to seek out that power and it wound up finding her. 

I read into it the broken female meets broken man. A young girl disillusioned by fairy tales finds something palpable and gawks at and inevitably adores it. She covets it like a royal decree / ring or crown. So long as it is hers, she has power. Her childhood meets adulthood and she begins to draw sexual correlations to this new asset. 

I see what GRRM is getting at and it has correlations to the real world. Girls from broken homes tend to be drawn to overt signs of masculinity and/or power. Sansa wasn't exactly from a broken home but as the OP explained her late childhood was indeed broken.

[Le Cygne]

32 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

No, it's just a realistic fantasy story with characters that, apart from having their own journeys, feel and fall in love. GRRM likes romance. And includes it in these novels and BATB is one of his favorite stories. Two BATB stories in the same novels.....he was a scriptwriter of the BATB show in the 90's.....and more.

Yeah, it's pretty simple, happens all the time. In fact, GRRM quotes this song (I'll get that quote in a moment):

You must remember this
A kiss is just a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh.
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by.

And when two lovers woo
They still say, "I love you."
On that you can rely
No matter what the future brings
As time goes by.

Moonlight and love songs
Never out of date.
Hearts full of passion
Jealousy and hate.
Woman needs man
And man must have his mate
That no one can deny.

It's still the same old story
A fight for love and glory
A case of do or die.
The world will always welcome lovers
As time goes by.

And here's GRRM (from Dreamsongs):

Casablanca put it most succinctly, "It's still the same old story, a fight for love and glory, a case of do or die." William Faulkner said much the same thing while accepting the Nobel Prize for Literature, when he spoke of "the old verities and truths of the heart, the universal truths lacking which any story is ephmeral and doomed - love and honor and pity and pride and compassion and self-sacrifice."

[winter daughter]

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

GRRM deliberately linked Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey's sword to her mistaken memory about the Hound kissing her, by saying that the former was setting the stage for the latter.

Arya misremembered the name of Joffrey's sword as Lion's paw, not Sansa.

"That's a lie!" Arya squirmed in Harwin's grip. "It was me. I hit Joffrey and threw Lion's Paw in the river. Mycah just ran away, like I told him."

 

[Meera of Tarth]

20 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, it's pretty simple, happens all the time. In fact, GRRM quotes this song (I'll get that quote in a moment):

You must remember this
A kiss is just a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh.
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by.

And when two lovers woo
They still say, "I love you."
On that you can rely
No matter what the future brings
As time goes by.

Moonlight and love songs
Never out of date.
Hearts full of passion
Jealousy and hate.
Woman needs man
And man must have his mate
That no one can deny.

It's still the same old story
A fight for love and glory
A case of do or die.
The world will always welcome lovers
As time goes by.

It's beautiful!

[Houseofthedirewolves]

52 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Sansa's storyline is anti-romantic and always has been. It's about the dangers of losing oneself to comforting lies and glamorous illusions to escape painful realities. It's no coincidence that Sansa's mentor is not only a consummate liar but also built his whole life on a lie (that he took Catelyn's virginity). Her increasingly detailed false "romantic" fantasy about the Hound is part of that. That's why GRRM places so much emphasis on Sansa's repeated pattern of lying to herself when the truth hurts. GRRM is escalating this pattern with the Hound (the fantasy is a "much more important lapse in memory" according to GRRM), since her Hound delusion now includes false sense memories, so it's definitely going somewhere. That "somewhere," however, is somewhere disastrous. GRRM deliberately linked Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey's sword to her mistaken memory about the Hound kissing her, by saying that the former was setting the stage for the latter. With Joffrey, we know Sansa lying to herself about the Trident incident had a number of catastrophic outcomes. Lying to herself about the Hound kissing her and building an increasingly elaborate romantic fantasy around that belief won't work out any better for her.

Sansa's previous failures to face up to reality have cost her a good deal. Sansa's romantic delusion about the Hound will likely cost her as well in much more dramatic fashion when it inevitably comes crashing down around her as her other delusions have. 

GRRM invites the reader to marvel or even laugh at Sansa's ability to lose herself in dumb romantic fantasies, whether they're about Joffrey, Loras, or the Hound, and to breathe a sigh of relief when they're inevitably stripped away. The only real suspense in Sansa's storyline is whether she'll ever wise up, grow up, and stop lying to herself. Will Sansa ever stop fooling herself? If the false memory of the kiss becoming increasingly detailed and Sansa's descriptions of the supposed event growing increasingly romanticized is an indication, probably not. That failure to stop lying to herself will likely be her downfall. 

Sansa's focus once escaping Littlefinger will be rebuilding Winterfell and hopefully reuniting with her family. Not focusing on romance. She has chased romance the entire series.

I do believe that Sansa will reunite with the Hound and end up knighting him (he becomes her sworn knight) hence why she constantly thinks of him in situations where she needs protection.

[Le Cygne]

GRRM said that many of his viewpoint characters remember things wrong, they are unreliable narrators. Like Cersei in the Sansa will be "singing to the Stranger begging for his kiss" passage (which is very Sandory, and very sexy when you think of what singing means in their story).

Cersei tells the others she was good to Sansa, and there's this silence, because everyone damn well knows she was quite the opposite. In her POV, she lies to make herself look good. Another example is Jaime's POV, he's in denial about his feelings for Brienne, and he lies about that all the time.

So then we come to Sansa...

She's telling the reader that Sandor kissed her, but he didn't. She's lying to the reader, that's what unreliable narrator typically involves. There's a famous Agatha Christie story where there's an unreliable narrator, and he does the murder, and has a perfectly faithful account EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE THING.

Now, the murderer knew that he was lying, it was intentional. And there are many indications that Sansa knows she made up this kiss with Sandor. So we then have to ask, why is she making it up? Why would a woman make up a kiss she seems to enjoy? Because she wants to kiss the man.

[Traverys]

On 6/12/2017 at 10:25 PM, Rhae_Valarie said:

My personal theory:

There is something important coming up that has something to do with Sansa's unreliable memory. It fits the pattern of George'e three fold revelation strategy. The subtle hint was Sansa remembering the the wrong name for Joffrey's sword. The more obvious hint was the Unkiss. Which means that there is going to be an obvious instance that will have some importance to the story.

Any theories on what it will be?

Aha! Three-fold revelation at work again.