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Will Sansa’s Unkiss amount to nothing more than the active over imagination of a young girl concerning the guy that protected her?


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6 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

What's a 'wind dancer,' Leech?  :)

The idea that got me started with messing around with Pinocchio. If Bran is the wood dancer, what does that make his siblings? I wondered if Sansa was a "wind dancer", and to dance also means to fight, that maybe The Winds of Winter is also when we will see Sansa wind dancer start flapping her "agency" wings. This will be Sansa's new theme song when Winds is released :lmao:

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12 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The idea that got me started with messing around with Pinocchio. If Bran is the wood dancer, what does that make his siblings? I wondered if Sansa was a "wind dancer", and to dance also means to fight, that maybe The Winds of Winter is also when we will see Sansa wind dancer start flapping her "agency" wings. This will be Sansa's new theme song when Winds is released :lmao:

Well  you know I've heard it said from a reliable source, 'red in the head...' B) (or 'red on the head'..?)

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8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The idea that got me started with messing around with Pinocchio. If Bran is the wood dancer, what does that make his siblings? I wondered if Sansa was a "wind dancer", and to dance also means to fight, that maybe The Winds of Winter is also when we will see Sansa wind dancer start flapping her "agency" wings. This will be Sansa's new theme song when Winds is released :lmao:

Backing this idea.

I noticed that the Stark kids are aligning with the 4 elements and Sansa with air.

On 5/16/2017 at 4:36 PM, Lollygag said:
  • ·         Bran is mastering Earth magic. He’s in a cave, tapped into trees.
  • ·         Arya is possibly mastering water magic. The FM oppose fire. Their magic is about changeability and water is the most changeable of the four elements being able to take vapor, liquid or solid forms. Water’s shape changes to that of its container.  So what the FM do might be a form of water magic as they put on a “container” in the form of a face and become no one, or let the container shape them. Now Nymeria’s name makes sense, if Arya is in fact mastering a water magic from the the Rhoyne. Also, a lot of Syrio’s instruction to Arya can be summarized as “be like water”, and in fact, she was learning water dancing. It can be argued that Arya is a Bolton having been married by proxy via Jeyne Poole. The Boltons do skin like the FM, and seem rather different. Maybe Other-y. If the Boltons are in fact connected to the Others, and what they do sounds similar to what the FM do, then the Boltons performing a similar water magic and being connected to the Others makes sense.
  • ·         Jon is linked to fire.
  • ·         Sansa is left with air, and is already connected to air through the Eyrie and the “little bird” nickname. She’s often described as wearing sky blue. I’m not exactly sure how this could play out in the story, but if Sansa could warg Lady’s spirit who is obviously non-corporeal, then she could sort of warg air, or something like that. RL gods associated with death are often connected to air because that’s where spirits/souls are perceived to hang out. Lady’s death may have been necessary to connect Sansa to air.

 

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5 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

He was confused, Arya is the one who remembered it wrong. His larger point was that he has his viewpoint characters often remember things (narrate things) wrong. He talks about how he uses unreliable narrator in the POV's often.

GRRM: "You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on."

So let's look at the threes for that. Sansa remembered Sandor kissed her three times. Another three times in the making, she puts on Sandor's cloak twice (and with all the marriage hints, there will likely be a third time).

GRRM quote in no way implies a romance. It doesn't apply anything other than it would be important. Would it be important in a positive way or negative way we have yet to see.

 

"Sansa remembered Sandor kissed her three times" -

Sansa's need to avoid reality remains strong as ever. GRRM will eventually deal with this and the reason why she is such an unreliable narrator. Not just with the Unkiss but with multiple things.

To think that her tendency to avoid reality is the beginning of a epic love story is strange.

 

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5 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Some here are projecting their own 'stuff' onto Sandor and Sansa, which would be better worked out with a therapist.  Let's stick to what GRRM has actually written -- whether one approves or disapproves of his depiction of male-female relations is a separate issue, and some might even say irrelevant to understanding the text at hand.  It's too simplistic to say that Sandor only represents the power fantasies of a disempowered girl.  And if anyone is shown to be suffering from 'PTSD' it's Sandor, not Sansa.  On the night of the Blackwater, he was the traumatized one disintegrating before her eyes (the fire triggered a debilitating flashback to being burned/assaulted by his brother in childhood).  Sure, he lashed out at her in his misery; yet Sansa was still somehow able to see through to the suffering behind the bluster -- or she wouldn't later refer to the 'hound' she embraces as a 'sad' old hound.  She sings him a song about the Mother, indicating that ironically she is more the adult here to his regressive childlike state.  Sandor is GRRM's lesson in 'the true seeing' for Sansa Stark -- each of the Starks has his or her own lesson.  It's not power Sansa needs from him; it's honesty -- or, if you like, authenticity.

Sandor Clegane is the opposite of the cloying lemon pie.  

If one needs an explanation for the 'unkiss,' I like the idea given above of Sansa having established a momentary telepathic connection with him...As Bran does with Meera, startling her, Sansa intuitively 'reached for' Sandor's mind, which he in his severely compromised physical and mental state (which predisposes a person to telepathic experiences of this nature) did not and/or could not resist, unlike Meera.

If Sansa 'invaded' poor Sandor's psyche in that moment, with some 'mild warging/skinchanging' (I agree with @Cowboy Dan that this is a 'thing'; the 'third eye' is not 'all-or-nothing', i.e. not completely open or completely closed); then perhaps we should consider whether Sansa symbolically 'raped' Sandor, and not vice versa!

'Some here are projecting their own 'stuff' onto Sandor and Sansa"

It's called everyone is interpreting the text because a clear answer has yet to be provided by George. But by your writing it's clear that you have convinced yourself that your way is right and everyone else is "projecting" if their interpretation doesn't align with yours.

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4 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Backing this idea.

I noticed that the Stark kids are aligning with the 4 elements and Sansa with air.

 

 

Nice! You went into it with Sansa a little deeper than I did in my thread here, but I can see what you are saying.

It is pretty well known that "little birds" spread their wings once pushed from the nest. An eyrie (various spellings) is also a nest, used for raptor type birds, and Sansa in TWOW is being pushed from the Eyrie in a few ways. A few others posters have picked up on this and have written great threads about this concept.

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I've forgotten a lot of what was in the OP at this point, but: I agree with a lot of what's been said already. I do think GRRM has some kind of plan for Sansa and Sandor in the future. I don't think he's been developing their relationship after they've parted ways for no reason (in reference to their frequent thoughts/chatterings about one another post-Blackwater).

 

Some other random thoughts:

I disagree with the rape theory. Sandor was protective of Sansa: intercepted her when she was going to push Joffrey, and also blocked her off from Joffrey at that time; said "Enough" while she was beaten; lied with her to Joffrey when she was trying to save Dontos; saved from being raped and/or killed by the mob; didn't beat her when commanded; stopped her from falling off a roof; and even told her not to run on the stairs. All of these things indicate that he didn't like her to be hurt. Why would he have come to her room to cruelly rape her when he tried to protect her so many times?

I think his confession to Arya that he should have raped and killed Sansa really meant "leaving her for that dwarf was so awful that raping and murdering her would have been a kinder fate." He hates Tyrion and has been with the Lannisters for half his life -- I think he knew they were going to try a force her to get pregnant. After he heard that Sansa and Tyrion were married, he took a seat (from being shocked and upset?), and said Cersei should burn Tyrion.

I also think the UnKiss is probably a fantasy as Sandor's "UnSong" about Sansa singing out of gratitude is a fantasy lie. GRRM likes parallels, for one thing. I think there's also a spot where Kevan said a dog "takes after his master" in direct reference to Sandor, who I think truly sided with Sansa in the end. This all may reflect that they are both daydreaming. But mostly, this analysis here is why I think it's a fantasy: http://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/40695396760/analyzing-the-unkiss

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6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. If anything, Sansa has it more for Sandor than the other way around. But no, he's mooning around the Riverlands like a lovesick puppy, going on and on about her pretty little song, and sobbing about the little bird with his dying breath.

Anyway, she sure seems to be enjoying the thought of kissing him. If you just look at this passage alone, it's clear she has thought about him kissing her a lot, and is enjoying the thought of his lips pressing on her own (by the way, Dany describes Daario's kisses that we know she enjoyed the same way).

And he left her. He came to her, but then he left her! She sounds like a jilted bride. And a little while later, when she's asked about the marriage bed, she remembers the Hound, and how he'd kissed her.

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

"Dany describes Daario's kisses that we know she enjoyed the same way"

Dany has actually kissed Daario. There isn't anything worrying about her describing a kiss that actually happened and how it makes her feel.

This is completely different from Sansa's case. In which she has actually convinced herself this kiss has happened. This is not healthy. George has stressed about her being an unreliable narrator. It's important. This is an issue that has been presented to us about her since before Ned's death.

Sansa cannot cope with certain realities. Her mind creates an escape for her by turning traumatic incidents to pleasant ones. Love stories do not bloom from false memories born from trauma. Sansa's false memories and need to repress the truth about things have never yielded pleasant results for her. I think she's going to be in for a rude awakening when she runs into the Hound again and realizes that this kiss never happened. 

But I do think this would be good for her as it would allow her to finally realize that she has a problem with facing harsh realities. How will she fix this problem? George has not said but it will be addressed.

Now her thinking of the Hound as her protector is not a false memory. George makes a point to emphasize on the fact that the Hound symbolizes a figure of protection to Sansa. He also makes a point to let us know how much the Hound hates knights and how disillusioned Sansa has become about knights.

Foreshadowing of Sansa making the Hound an anointed knight? Very likely.

The Hound is man that used to look up to knights as a little boy until his brother committed a terrible crime against him for playing with a toy knight of his and then was *rewarded by becoming an anointed knight.* This ruined any admiration that the Hound once had for knights (someone like Gregor getting knighted). And causes him to absolutely loathe the whole concept.

Sansa also grew up adoring gallant knights. How brave they were! How handsome! Protecting and saving fair maiden. (That concept of protection) But her dreams of those knights were shattered in Kingslanding. How cruel they were. As they beat her and humiliated her. The opposite of everything she believed knights would be.

From the start George connects them through this. They both were obsessed with gallant knights as young children, but that dream of knights were torn away by acts of cruelty. In a way the Hound saw his childish naivety reflected in Sansa and tried to *protect* her from that naivety by exposing the truth to her. "There are no true knights," he tells her this harsh reality that he learned brutally as a child.

What George is creating is not a love story. This is not a story about Sansa falling in love/or the Hound falling in love. But a story about healing. A connection forged through both of them being broken by something they once believed in.

 George centers so much of their story on the concept of knighthood. Even what the Hound represents to Sansa (protector, warrior, strong, and brave) ties back to knights. They both once believed in and admired (gallant knights) but received a rude awakening. They learned the hard way (knights can be cruel and hateful) they both became bitter about knights.

Yet somehow they restore each others beliefs in knights. But the knighthood symbolizes more than that. It symbolizes the ability to hope, to trust, to thrive and to heal. 

Sansa will make the Hound an anointed knight. Something that was a source of trauma for both of them is now a source of pride (for the Hound) and saftey, comfort, and protection (for Sansa) 

This is where I believe George is taking this story.

 

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32 minutes ago, Lizard Princess said:

I think [Sandor's] confession to Arya that he should have raped and killed Sansa really meant "leaving her for that dwarf was so awful that raping and murdering her would have been a kinder fate." He hates Tyrion and has been with the Lannisters for half his life

I agree. And we have Jaime Lannister's word that Sandor was not a raper, although his brother Gregor was. Cersei made a big point of trying to scare Sansa (and succeeded) that evening of how in battle, men get their blood up and immediately turn into savage rapists. Jaime has no doubt fought alongside the Hound (and the Mountain) often enough to know this just isn't something Sandor does.

33 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

[George RR Martin] also makes a point to let us know how much the Hound hates knights and how disillusioned Sansa has become about knights.

Foreshadowing of Sansa making the Hound an anointed knight? Very likely.

Somehow, I'm not following this. Both of them hate knights, so Sansa will knight him? I personally think Sansa is as likely to be the "King on the Iron Throne" as she is to become a knight herself. Guess I need "therapy", right?  ;-)

Sansa took a lot of her newfound hatred of knights from Sandor's opinions. When he speaks, she listens and remembers. It's none of it the "empty courtesies" or elaborate machinations that everyone else seems to spout; plus, he's so terrifying to her that she pays attention. But Sansa is also absorbing a lot from Petyr Baelish, mostly his evil "Littlefinger" side (again, fear is a big driver). She has yet to fully integrate the conflicting lessons she's being exposed to.

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Dany was fantasizing about Daario's kisses BEFORE she kissed him, just as Sansa is doing with Sandor. Using the same wording.

GRRM has a certain style. File this one under teenagers fantasizing about passionate kisses. He does the same with daggers.

"Are you skilled in the use of those handsome blades?" Dany asked him.

Dany:

The girl in her wanted to kiss him so much it hurt. His kisses would be hard and cruel, she told herself, and he would not care if I cried out or commanded him to stop. But the queen in her knew that would be folly. "Tell me of your journey."

Sansa:

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

Also... there's a lingo of this type of romance, there are certain code words that stand for sexual excitement.

There's a line at the end of La Belle et la Bete, the romance Sansa and the Hound is based on, where they are clearly talking about sex (flying).

Belle tells the Beast, "I like being afraid with you."

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2 hours ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

Sansa's need to avoid reality remains strong as ever. GRRM will eventually deal with this and the reason why she is such an unreliable narrator. Not just with the Unkiss but with multiple things.

To think that her tendency to avoid reality is the beginning of a epic love story is strange.

 

The fact that the she is an unreliable narrator doesn't mean she is or will have to avoid reality.

And why she would have to avoid the reality of her relationship with the Hound? if she is just in love with him (what the story blatantly suggests)even if she had a moment she didn't like with him (and that is debatable, but let's say she didn't like it,) she doesn't have to avoid feeling what she feels. She can choose what she wants to feel now. And she has. In fact, she actively thinks of him; and she doesn't have fear, she is free to think of what/who she wants, and she chooses him. Hence, she is not "traumatised". In fact, after everything she has suffered it would be nonsensical if she was traumatised for that and not for any other thing. She thinks of the unkiss because that is what she wants now (a Kiss with him)  and/or what she would have wanted to happen that night instead of what happened.

You say.... that the night event traumatised her so much that she has created a mechanism to cope with this, up to be point to

1) virtually believe that she has fallen in love with someone who, not  only she is not really in love with, but also who she had never been attracted to before in any manner.

2) This mechanism is so powerful that she even "feels" happy when she thinks of him (she really believes so, I think this is not even debatable),

3) and nightmares about him don't make her mind "click" of whats going on in her subcounsciouss ("hey, I'm feeling in love with someone I am not in love with..."........... this is huge.

 

Then, if her mind is capable of all that, why on Earth doesn't she develop other alterations in her behaviour because of other REALLY BAD experiences? And I say, in her behaviour, because these are not only alterations of the memory, but of the mind! She is thinking she is in love with a man who she didn't have a bond with (except the protector one, according to you) and that now she believes she is in love with!

Why didn't she (example:  have alterations with Joffrey and Cersei) after Ned died? She could have started befriending Crsei even if those feelings were not real, after all, she can "invent" them and believe they are real!

Why didn't she (example:start acting as a happy wife) when she married Tyrion? (We could argue that even if Tyrion was not her protector, her mind should make her "believe" she is in love with him as a survival mechanism, and her mind is good in this according to you)

Why didn't she (example:start thinking she was not a Stark)  when she knew what had happened in the Red Wedding?

Why didn't she (example: start imagining that Joffrey was in a honey moon trip with Margaery and Tyrion) when her ex-fiancé was poisoned allegedly by her husband?

To sum up, your case doesn't stand up on its own without answering all these questions.

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It's the view of Police Chiefs who were involved in the "Stockholm" case that coined the term and have a long career over it, that of professionals in treating abuse victims, and the encyclopedia of social sciences, therapists, etc:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22447726

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/08/opinion/oe-ochberg8

Article written by the director of a trauma victim center:

http://www.healing-arts.org/healing_trauma_therapy/traumabonding-traumaticbonds.htm

Encyclopedia social sciences:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/traumatic-bonding

Your diagnosis is more akin to the defintion of TV tropes.

Well, I read "what THEY had done to Lady". The quote says "hating him for it" not "blaming him for it".

And in fact, while Joffrey is a shit, he is not the one responsible for Lady's death. She judges correctly that it's Cersei. She blames Arya wrongly though.

That is contradictory. If people represent something in a dream, then obviously they mean "something",not "nothing.

Or based on fears. But nightmares are still dreams, and in dreams the people in it mean "something" to you in relation to the dream's subject, negatively or positively. They're not just "coincidental decor".

It's your OP to defend and prove. Not mine. Asking questions and showing the holes and illogic in your reasoning and statements and assertions is not "giving my view", especially when I say "ok, so let's go with this assertion of yours, but then how does this work with this contradicting assertion of yours?" I am hypothetically adopting your assumptions, following them through in thought run into logical issues with the known facts or other assumptions of yours. So far, your responses to those issues is reiterating the problematic jumble of assertions, waving off an issue with more contradictions, cherry picking and reframing my critique that focuses solely on your claims trying to make sense of them as "just different views". 

 

"Well, I read "what THEY had done to Lady". The quote says "hating him for it" not "blaming him for it"

"THEY" equal more than one person. Joffrey was obviously included under the umbrella of "THEY" or there wouldn't be any need for her to hate him. She considered him part of the "THEY" UNTIL she removed him and left only Cersei and Arya under that umbrella.

Why would she hate him for Lady's death if she didn't already blame him? O_o  Logic fail on your part. You're trying so hard to nitpick that some of the things you nitpick are absolutely laughable. 

 

"And in fact, while Joffrey is a shit, he is not the one responsible for Lady's death"

This is not about the technicality of who was responsible. This is about Sansa blaming and hating Joffrey for it. Before she convinced herself that he is innocent.

 

"That is contradictory. If people represent something in a dream, then obviously they mean "something",not "nothing."

This is you trying hard to nitpick. The faceless mob that attacked her didn't mean anything to her personally. She doesn't know any of them. Just strange faces in the crowds. But their actions inspired fear. Their actions inspired trauma. Their actions led to her having a nightmare about what they did to her. It's their actions that caused her trauma.

Same with Tyrion. She doesn't hate Tyrion or love him. She doesn't like him or dislike him. She doesn't fear him because she acknowledges that he's kind to her (both during the wedding and later to her aunt). Sansa is simply indifferent to him. Tyrion as a person doesn't mean anything to her. It was the trauma of the wedding night with him that led to her nightmare.The fear of believing that she would be forced to have sex with him. Her trauma is tied to that incident. Not Tyrion as a person. Same as her trauma concerning the Hound is tied with the incident during Blackwater. Which is why it appeared in her nightmare.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

Sansa is simply indifferent to him. 

She acts indifferent to him. But he means something - someone who wants something of her that she's not willing to give him.

 

4 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

This is not about the technicality of who was responsible. This is about Sansa blaming and hating Joffrey for it. Before she convinced herself that he is innocent

Actually who was responsible is important. If Sansa ends up convincing herself that Joffrey is innocent of something he is in fact innocent, then that can hardly be used as evidence of her being dillusional. Now she is dillusional in aGoT of a great many things, including stuff about Joffrey, but him being responsible for Lady's death isn't one of those things.

7 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

Joffrey was obviously included under the umbrella of "THEY" or there wouldn't be any need for her to hate him.

Is it? You can hate someone for being involved in events that preceded to THEY (Cersei, Robert and Ned) killing Lady.

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10 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The fact that the she is an unreliable narrator doesn't mean she is or will have to avoid reality.

And why she would have to avoid the reality of her relationship with the Hound? if she is just in love with him (what the story blatantly suggests)even if she had a moment she didn't like with him (and that is debatable, but let's say she didn't like it,) she doesn't have to avoid feeling what she feels. She can choose what she wants to feel now. And she has. In fact, she actively thinks of him; and she doesn't have fear, she is free to think of what/who she wants, and she chooses him. Hence, she is not "traumatised". In fact, after everything she has suffered it would be nonsensical if she was traumatised for that and not for any other thing. She thinks of the unkiss because that is what she wants now (a Kiss with him)  and/or what she would have wanted to happen that night instead of what happened.

You say.... that the night event traumatised her so much that she has created a mechanism to cope with this, up to be point to virtually believe that she has fallen in love with someone who, not  only she is not really in love with, but also who she had never been attracted to before in any manner. This mechanism is so powerful that she even "feels" happy when she thinks of him (she really believes so, I think this is not even debatable), and nightmares about him don't make her mind "click" of whats going on in her subcounsciouss ("hey, I'm feeling in love with someone I am not with..."........... this is huge.

Then, if her mind is capable of that, why on Earth doesn't she develop other alterations in her behaviour because of other REALLY BAD experiences? And I say, in her behaviour, because these are not only alterations of the memory, but of the mind! She is thinking she is in love with a man who she didn't have a bond with (except the protector one, according to you) and that now she believes she is in love with!

Why didn't she have alterations with Joffrey and Cersei after Ned died? She could have started befriending Crsei even if those feelings were not real, after all, she can "invent" them and believe they are real!

Why didn't she start acting as a happy wife when she married Tyrion? (We could argue that even if Tyrion was not her protector, her mind should make her "believe" she is in love with him as a survival mechanism, and her mind is good in this according to you)

Why didn't she start thinking she was not a Stark when she knew what had happened in the Red Wedding?

Why didn't she start imagining that Joffrey was in a honey moon trip with Margaery and Tyrion when her ex-fiancé was poisoned allegedly by her husband?

To sum up, your case doesn't stand on its own without answering all these questions.

"if she is just in love with him (what the story blatantly suggests)"

The story has never suggested that. You cannot conclude love based on a false memory. 

The story has shown us that she views him as a protector. When she compares other men to him based on their strength, or sees people practicing with swords and thinks of him, or feels scared and thinks of him, it all relates to her viewing him as a protector.

The story has shown us that she romanticized a traumatic incident. The story has also shown us that she did this before and it didn't end well. 

So most likely Sansa's altering of her memory will result in another rude awakening.

 

"You say.... that the night event traumatised her so much that she has created a mechanism to cope with this, up to be point to virtually believe that she has fallen in love with someone who, not  only she is not really in love with"

I have never claimed she was in love with anyone... Nor is her altered memory a coping mechanism that she created after Blackwater, it's a mechanism that has been present from her earlier chapters. She used it with Joffrey after Lady was killed. She repressed her memory of his involvement in Lady's death so that she could maintain her pretty dream that involved him.

It is an established mechanism that she falls back on. One that she is still using with Littlefinger. She can't get away from him. She knows he's dangerous but she's powerless. So in her mind she splits him into two people. There's Petyr who is her "friend" and who cares for her and there is "Littlefinger" who only cares for himself. The fact that Sansa has a pattern of altering reality in her mind makes it more dangerous. Because if there's a habit formed, it will be harder to break.

 

 

"even if she had a moment she didn't like with him (and that is debatable, but let's say she didn't like it"

Her throat was dry and tight with fear, and every song she had ever known had fled from her mind.

please don’t kill me, she wanted to scream, Please don’t.  She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again

Whether she likes it or not is not debatable. The text makes her feelings plain. This is obviously a moment with him that she didn't like.

That's not me making up her trauma, that's the text describing her trauma. Being scared for her life is traumatic believe it or not. Having someone come into her room and hold a knife to her throat is traumatic. We know she's so terrified that her mind goes blank. Blatant trauma.

 

"This mechanism is so powerful that she even "feels" happy when she thinks of him"

Did she hate Joffrey after repressing his role in Lady's death? No she went back to *loving* him.

If she has repressed the trauma of Blackwater, why would she feel any negative feelings towards the Hound. In her mind, her last meeting with him was pleasant.

 

 

"Why didn't she have alterations with Joffrey and Cersei after Ned died?" 

Because her mind tends to alter things when the reality threaten something that she wants. her pretty song and when she still wants tha. 

Her beautiful Joffrey being involved in something as painful as Lady's death. That reality she couldn't bare. It threatened everything. Marrying her beautiful prince, being his queen, having his babies. Reality cannot get in the way of what she wants. She starts repressing Joffrey's role. 

At first she thought she hated him for what they’d done to Lady, but after Sansa had wept her eyes dry, she told herself that it had not been Joffrey’s doing, not truly. The queen had done it; she was the one to hate, her and Arya.

Once she changed her memory of what happened and put all the blame on Cersei and Arya, she was allowed to continue loving her prince. She still could hold on to the dream future that she wanted.

After Ned's death she no longer wanted any future with Joffrey or any of the Lannisters. She didn't have any need to repress or alter her view of them. She hated all of them. Her mind and reality were in unity. The Lannisters were monster.

 

 

"Why didn't she start acting as a happy wife when she married Tyrion? (We could argue that even if Tyrion was not her protector, her mind should make her "believe" she is in love with him as a survival mechanism, and her mind is good in this according to you)"

Why would her mind make her believe she is in love with a man she doesn't have any bond with? Who doesn't represent anything positive to her that she wants. Joffrey AND the Hound both represented things that she wanted. She wanted to marry a beautiful prince and be his queen and have his babies. This is why her mind alters negative experiences with him. Because she wants what he represents. She sees the Hound as a protector who is as brave and fierce as the knights that she grew up hearing about and she wants that protection. Again, this is why her mind alters negative experiences with him.

Tyrion does not represent anything that she wants. She doesn't want anything that he offers.

 

 

"Why didn't she start thinking she was not a Stark when she knew what had happened in the Red Wedding?"

Why should she stop thinking she's a Stark? Outwardly she was already rejecting her family to survive. Inwardly she repressed thoughts about them even before the Red Wedding. Thinking about them pained her so she didn't. She didn't speak about them and if others spoke about them she maintained that they were traitors. That's how she coped.

 

"Why didn't she start imagining that Joffrey was in a honey moon trip with Margaery and Tyrion when her ex-fiancé was poisoned allegedly by her husband?"

Now you're not making sense. Don't throw ridiculous questions at people and expect them to make sense of it for you.

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And SECONDS later she does this:

Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more...

That's TENDERNESS!!!

And then SHE TELLS US HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT THE WHOLE THING!!!

I wish the Hound were here. The night of the battle, Sandor Clegane had come to her chambers to take her from the city, but Sansa had refused. Sometimes she lay awake at night, wondering if she'd been wise. She had his stained white cloak hidden in a cedar chest beneath her summer silks. She could not say why she'd kept it. The Hound had turned craven, she heard it said; at the height of the battle, he got so drunk the Imp had to take his men. But Sansa understood. She knew the secret of his burned face. It was only the fire he feared. That night, the wildfire had set the river itself ablaze, and filled the very air with green flame. Even in the castle, Sansa had been afraid. Outside . . . she could scarcely imagine it.

All this TENDERNESS! And she's still feeling TENDERNESS!!!

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

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Just now, Le Cygne said:

she gets under his cloak...

Yeah, but only when he's not in it. Is this "symbolic sex" on Sansa's part, where the knife blade at her throat was Sandor's "symbolic sex" with her? Seriously - Sansa likes Sandor the most when he isn't there. She likes the idea of The Hound; the actual flawed, hurt and bleeding man, not so much.

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Nope. She places the kiss right before he draws the dagger. (At least call it a dagger. That's the word the author uses.)

She caresses his face, by instinct, that's a true expression of how she feels about him, and that is liking him a LOT.

She likes him just fine, lots of examples are throughout the story.

She likes sparring with him so much, right in the middle of one she wants to PET him.

She looks at his cloak a gazillion times, she's obsessed with what he says and does.

She pats him on the shoulder when he's upset about his brother.

She prays a special prayer for him (she always leaves the best for last).

She tries to read his face when he says he has no wife (hint hint hint).

She defends him when she thinks the washerwomen are dissing him (she defends his jousting!)

And lots more. And that's all while he's there.

And there's more when he's gone, because she misses him. "I wish the Hound were here."

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5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

At least call it a dagger.

Why's that? Are "daggers" (and "swords") phallic symbols, but knives are not? How about dirks? Stilettos? Flaying knives? (Now I'm just tryin' to get under your skin)

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