Will Sansa’s Unkiss amount to nothing more than the active over imagination of a young girl concerning the guy that protected her?

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

Sansa knows what that means. REJECTED.

Isn’t it curious that shortly after this hurtful rejection her FIRST alteration of the Unkiss happens? It’s almost like she’s rebounding with the Hound once she realizes the guy she’s crushing on doesn’t want her? Rejected by her crush? No problem. Her mind goes to work spinning does fantasies suddenly the Hound is not only her protector but now she’s substituting him for Loras who has just crushed her hopes and dreams.

And you conveniently leave out the fantasy she has about Loras AFTER she realizes she was rejected.

• Being escorted by Loras where she's held at emotional distance (reverse parallel to being escorted once by the Hound that ended with an actual emotional intimate moment)
• Fantasy about getting nekkid with Loras
• Tries to fantasise about Willas, but gets no further than puppies
• Loras intrudes on those fantasies, and she tells herself not to think of Loras in that way
• Believes she kissed Sandor

Strange how the rejection doesn't stop her from fantasising about Loras.

8 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

So freaking romantic that rebound status. I'm swooning. 

You're confusing shipping with analysis. You're confusing your dislike of Sandor and what you believe Sansa "ought" to feel with analysis. That's not analysis, but your personal preference. 

[Houseofthedirewolves]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And you conveniently leave out the fantasy she has about Loras AFTER she realizes she was rejected.

• Being escorted by Loras where she's held at emotional distance (reverse parallel to being escorted once by the Hound that ended with an actual emotional intimate moment)
• Fantasy about getting nekkid with Loras
• Tries to fantasise about Willas, but gets no further than puppies
• Loras intrudes on those fantasies, and she tells herself not to think of Loras in that way
• Believes she kissed Sandor

Strange how the rejection doesn't stop her from fantasising about Loras.

You're confusing shipping with analysis. You're confusing your dislike of Sandor and what you believe Sansa "ought" to feel with analysis. That's not analysis, but your personal preference. 

Are you actually using her fantasizing about Loras to argue a case for the Hound? 1+1=4? Makes no sense.

Wed  to Ser Loras . . . oh, Sansa's breath caught in her throat.

Yes she continued to fantasize, poor girl. Even as she accuses Margaery's cousins of being silly children she herself continues to be one as she sticks to her dreams and songs.

But this also leads to Sansa's first HONEST sexual fantasy. Not one born from trauma and altered to make it less traumatic (Unkiss). But a genuine one based on real sexual attraction. 

She remembered Ser Loras in his sparkling sapphire armor, tossing her a rose. Ser Loras in white silk, so pure, innocent, beautiful. The dimples at the comer of The dimples at the corner of his mouth when he smiled. The sweetness of his laugh, the warmth of his hand. She could only imagine what it would be like to pull up his tunic and caress the smooth skin underneath, to stand  to stand on her toes and kiss him, to run her fingers through those thick brown curls and drown in his deep brown eyes. A flush crept up her neck.

But of course, her dream was knocked down ONCE MORE by Olenna.

"Yes I will. I will like that more than anything. To wed Ser Loras, to love him . . .”

“Loras!” Lady Olenna sounded annoyed. “Don't be foolish, child. Kingsguard never wed

Sansa actually feels dizzy from how savagely her dreams were snatched away.

Sheesh, I really hope Sansa gets the point soon. I mean I feel bad for her now. YOU CAN'T HAVE LORAS.

 

• For your info, her imaginations of Willas and puppies doesn't come until AFTER she has the Unkiss *memory*.

 

• So it's basically -----> Loras crushes her dreams. Olenna crushes her dreams with Willas. Unkiss. Sansa Still thinks about Loras. Finally forces herself to think about Willas. Puppies. Sure. Goes back to Loras.

So even after this Unkiss *memory* her focus is still on Loras.

 

• Shortly after is her forced marriage to Tyrion. I think this does it. I think this awakens her to reality.

• Sansa does not become infatuated with her altered memory of the Hound until she leaves Kingslanding.

• In the Fingers, she almost gets raped, her mind goes to her protector.

•But who can sleep peacefully after nearly being raped?

And she dreamed of her wedding night too, of Tyrion’s eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. “I’ll have a song from you,” he rasped,

• She has a nightmare triggered by the attempted rape and dreams of other traumatic moments in her life that were sexual in nature (wedding night with Tyrion, the Blackwater incident with the Hound)  -----> believe it or not people try to pin her nightmare as an erotic dream about the Hound. Mind you the girl was nearly raped and that's BOUND to trigger nightmares but ... sigh. 

Moving on.

• As she becomes more dependent on Littlefinger and is subjected to his molestation, she thinks more and more of her protector. Eventually becoming infatuated with him and altering her memory of her last time with him so greatly that it no longer was a traumatizing event. She has romanticized her trauma (hello Joffrey again).

During her first kiss after escaping Kingslanding (not considering her molestation by Littlefinger) Loras invades her thoughts once more but because she has never been kissed by Loras nor experienced a traumatic incident with him that she altered in her mind,

1) she falls back to the experience with the Hound that she convinced herself was true. 

2) She accepts the ambitious Tyrells will never settle for anyone's bastard (and a bastard Alayne is). Once again Loras is a dead end. 

 

Imagine claiming a traumatized child that can't even face reality (who is also currently being molested) is in love with a man because of some altered memory that she made up about him after he behaved in a screwed up way towards her. It's almost like she has emotional trauma that needs to be sorted but lets label that as love. 

Yeah SanSan!

 

 

• Personal preference = people who convince themselves that Sansa is in love with the Hound. Absolutely nothing about the text suggests that she is in love.

Infatuation. Yes. 

Altering reality to cope with trauma? Duh. How many times has she done it now?

 

[Wolfgirly]

Sansa lost her father. She was filled with so much love for Joffrey at the beginning that she wanted to marry him. She begged and pleaded for her dad, Ned, to allow this to happen. She wanted to go to Kings Landing. Ned wanted to stay in Winterfell but he was pressured by both Sansa (her pleading to marry Joffrey) and his wife Catelyn. In Kings Landing, Sansa begged and pleaded Cersei to let her marry Joffrey. She was close to tears and you can feel the emotions coming from Sansa, very young and naive.

She was scared of the Hound, she didn't have sexual fantasies about him. The Hound knew in a way that he frightened her, What happened later was the Hound protecting her in the crowd,but also he appeared in her bed chamber late at night! That was creepy.

Joffrey loved to humiliate her in front of everyone. He enjoyed getting her beaten up by thugs. Sansa was a vulnerable wolf maiden. She was befriended by Maergery Tyrell and then Sansa was promised to marry a dreamy knight in High Garden. She had daydreams like any teenage girl who was scared and unhappy. 

In one massive insult to the poor girl, she was suddenly coerced into marrying Tyrion "the imp"!!! The wedding itself was cruel and difficult to read. As she was feeling so sad, everyone was "enjoying" the feast and dancing. This was very upsetting. I think Sansa's been through hell. (I'm reading Book Three now "Storm of Swords: Part 1 Steel and Snow").

[Springwatch]

1 hour ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

...

•But who can sleep peacefully after nearly being raped?

...

 

She didn't think she was going to be raped. She thought she was going to be kissed - and that was quite repulsive enough, thank you.

That is the meaning of the Unkiss that grrm says is so important. A skinchanger can touch human minds - she saw the idea of the kiss in his mind without it ever actually happening.

This meeting of minds is the key to their relationship - not any physical attraction / fantasy - which came much later. It's why he felt compelled to tell her his wretched childhood - something he told no-one else. It's why he can't frighten her off as he does the rest of the world - he acts brutal, she's terrified, and then they end up discussing religion, or something - incredible. She touches his cheek, and it acts on him like a horse tranquilliser. She thinks of shoving Joffrey off a wall, and he reads her like a book.

Neither of them had a friend in the world apart from each other.

So, to return to the OP, if Sandor finds peace in religion - if he doesn't need her any more - the link is gone; she won't need him.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

8 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

 

She didn't think she was going to be raped. She thought she was going to be kissed - and that was quite repulsive enough, thank you.

That is the meaning of the Unkiss that grrm says is so important. A skinchanger can touch human minds - she saw the idea of the kiss in his mind without it ever actually happening.

This meeting of minds is the key to their relationship - not any physical attraction / fantasy - which came much later. It's why he felt compelled to tell her his wretched childhood - something he told no-one else. It's why he can't frighten her off as he does the rest of the world - he acts brutal, she's terrified, and then they end up discussing religion, or something - incredible. She touches his cheek, and it acts on him like a horse tranquilliser. She thinks of shoving Joffrey off a wall, and he reads her like a book.

Neither of them had a friend in the world apart from each other.

So, to return to the OP, if Sandor finds peace in religion - if he doesn't need her any more - the link is gone; she won't need him.

How does this equal to thinking he's about to kiss her? ... 

“Mercy. I have been singing love songs for hours. My blood is stirred. And yours, I know… there’s no wench half so lusty as one bastard born. Are you wet for me?”

“I’m a maiden,” she protested.

“Truly? Oh, Alayne, Alayne, my fair maid, give me the gift of your innocence. You will thank the gods you did. I’ll have you singing louder than the Lady Lysa.”

Sansa jerked away from him, frightened. “If you don’t leave me, my au - my father will hang you. Lord Petyr.” 

 “Littlefinger?” He chuckled. “Lady Lysa loves me well, and I am Lord Robert’s favorite. If your father offends me, I will destroy him with a verse.” He put a hand on her breast, and squeezed. “Let’s get you out of these wet clothes. You wouldn’t want them ripped, I know. Come, sweet lady, heed your heart -” 

It was this near rape incident that led to her nightmare about Tyrion and the Hound. And it is very sickening that  people try to pass her nightmare off as an erotic dream.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

22 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

 

She didn't think she was going to be raped. She thought she was going to be kissed - and that was quite repulsive enough, thank you.

That is the meaning of the Unkiss that grrm says is so important. A skinchanger can touch human minds - she saw the idea of the kiss in his mind without it ever actually happening.

This meeting of minds is the key to their relationship - not any physical attraction / fantasy - which came much later. It's why he felt compelled to tell her his wretched childhood - something he told no-one else. It's why he can't frighten her off as he does the rest of the world - he acts brutal, she's terrified, and then they end up discussing religion, or something - incredible. She touches his cheek, and it acts on him like a horse tranquilliser. She thinks of shoving Joffrey off a wall, and he reads her like a book.

Neither of them had a friend in the world apart from each other.

So, to return to the OP, if Sandor finds peace in religion - if he doesn't need her any more - the link is gone; she won't need him.

I think when they meet again he won't represent the brutal protector that she built her whole infatuation around. Thus ending her infatuation. That's the whole point of this thread.

GRRM never implied the Unkiss will be important because the two will have a love story or end up as a couple.

I doubt he would call the Unkiss to reader's attention if he was going for a love story.

Yet shippers refuse to listen to any view of point that doesn't believe a romance will bloom between the two.

[Meera of Tarth]

10 hours ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

"she's unimpressed." No. Sansa is nearly always scared after every run in with the Hound and especially when he holds a knife to her throat.

"The unkiss is Sansa coming to accept that what she really wants is not the ideal as she always thought it would be.  But "that day is done."  By the times she accepts it consciously, it's too late.  He's gone.  That's it.  I kissed the Hound and all I got was this lousy t-shirt."

That's YOUR analyzation of the Unkiss just like I have my own and hundreds of others interpret it in their own way.

You see it as the one who got away, I see it as a frightened child that has finally gotten away from a traumatic experience and once again alters the reality of that experience to something more pleasant. But she's now in other dangerous experience with Littlefinger and since the Hound was her protector she conjures up thoughts of him, wishing he could protect her once more.

Seeing that Sansa still needs him as her protector, she alters her traumatic memories of him. She changes something that frightened her into something not scary. She doesn't want to remember her protector as someone scary that shoves her down on her bed, holds a knife to her throat, and frightens her. So she romanticized this traumatic moment.

 

I don't think she is as much frightened now in the Vale to need imaginary memories of protection. It's more about what she really wants insead p what she has.

[sweetsunray]

6 hours ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

Are you actually using her fantasizing about Loras to argue a case for the Hound? 1+1=4? Makes no sense.

Wed  to Ser Loras . . . oh, Sansa's breath caught in her throat.

Yes she continued to fantasize, poor girl. Even as she accuses Margaery's cousins of being silly children she herself continues to be one as she sticks to her dreams and songs.

But this also leads to Sansa's first HONEST sexual fantasy. Not one born from trauma and altered to make it less traumatic (Unkiss). But a genuine one based on real sexual attraction

It makes a case that your "rebound" claim is based on cherry-picking.

Yes, Sansa keeps on fantasizing. This is not "poor girl". Fantasy is a safe world where young people who begin to develop erotic feelings and desires can experiment in, without embarrassment, without shame, without danger.

The escort scene with Loras is one of mismatching intimacy. Sansa tries to find something honest and meaningful to talk about, instead of courtesies. She wants to "connect" on an emotional level. Loras is merely being courteous. She's experiencing courtesy the same way as Sandor experienced it at the start of the scene in aGoT where he escorts her.

Then she has her very first erotic daydream, which is one about Loras. While this is a first genuine erotic daydream, it's not one born from real sexual attraction. Because obviously there is no chemistry between them. It's the type of erotic fantasy a 13 year old girl has about a teen-pop-idol. And that's alright. That's good. 12-13 year old girls should have fantasies about a male who's not actually available to fantasise what kissing, and touching, and seeing might be like. It's through fantasy that a girl growing into a woman experiments how she would prefer to have sex when she's actually ready to have sex.

The mistake you make is to call the first mention of the Unkiss a "fantasy". It's not really a fantasy. It's an altered memory. Sansa does not recognize the unkiss as a fantasy. She thinks it really happened. Hence it's not a "rebound fantasy", because it isn't a "fantasy" to her. And in aSoS, Sansa II it's not something she makes less of or even romanticises.

Quote

He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song (aSoS, Sansa II)

That this false memory of the kiss is not a fantasy at that point in time is further emphasized by the fact that George has Sansa actively try to fantasize about Willas, which fail to be erotic at all, with erotic Loras fantasies intruding.

So, why doesn't Sansa fantasize about Sandor at this point of time? Because she does not recognize the attraction. By keeping it out of her fantasy world, and instead having it as a false memory, she can deny desiring him. That she in fact does is not something she can accept. This further undermines this argument that it's supposed to be a "rebound" thing for Loras. It is an actual, genuine rival attraction, but one she does not want to recognize as such.

Then comes the real life experience of the wedding night, where she sees a man naked and in erection for her, a man she doesn't want on any level (emotional, mental, physical). That's very in her face, especially for a 13-year old. It's quite a jump from imagining kissing Loras and in naked torso to purple bulbous head cock in erection just for her.

Only when she's truly over her idol-crush on Loras and free from havnig to ice herself up to protect herself from Tyrion's lust (but now able to remember it from a safe distance in time) does she dream about Sandor naked in the marriage bed, after having heard Lysa scream out her orgasm. This isn't about a "deal with trauma of Sandor's threatening behavior" anymore. This isn't about kissing anymore. It's a full blown erotic dream of Sandor desiring her, and she wanting him to be in a bed with her. Again though, it's not a fantasy yet. Human minds are in control on what we daydream about. That is "fantasy". We are not in control over what we dream about. That is our subconscious not wanting to be repressed, but wanting us to recognize something about ourselves.

[ravenous reader]

14 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

*Grabs popcorn* I summon @ravenous reader

What?  You presume to 'summon' me like Will in the Prologue summoning the Others with his 'whispered prayer to the nameless gods...'?  And this thread isn't even concerned with a major Littlefinger apology -- now you're into the excruciating minutiae of 'unkisses' and 'SanSan-shipping' -- you're getting soft, Wraith!  

The 'unkiss' fails to excite me.  She fantasized about a kiss that never happened, so what?  However, I do really like @Springwatch's and @The Bard of Banefort's idea that it may indicate Sansa's developing telepathic powers (see below), of which she would obviously not be in full control and would find confusing (especially since she's never had the benefit like Bran or Jon of someone explaining the warg-host bond to her).  The Hound has awakened the dormant Lady within, LOL.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

Sansa went down the steps and out into the night. A light rain was falling on the remains of the feast, but the air smelled fresh and clean. The memory of her own wedding night with Tyrion was much with her. In the dark, I am the Knight of Flowers, he had said. I could be good to you. But that was only another Lannister lie. A dog can smell a lie, you know, the Hound had told her once. She could almost hear the rough rasp of his voice. Look around you, and take a good whiff. They're all liars here, and every one better than you. She wondered what had become of Sandor Clegane. Did he know that they'd killed Joffrey? Would he care? He had been the prince's sworn shield for years.

She stayed outside for a long time. When at last she sought her own bed, wet and chilled, only the dim glow of a peat fire lit the darkened hall. There was no sound from above. The young singer sat in a corner, playing a slow song to himself. One of her aunt's maids was kissing a knight in Lord Petyr's chair, their hands busy beneath each other's clothing. Several men had drunk themselves to sleep, and one was in the privy, being noisily sick. Sansa found Bryen's old blind dog in her little alcove beneath the steps, and lay down next to him. He woke and licked her face. "You sad old hound," she said, ruffling his fur.

"Alayne." Her aunt's singer stood over her. "Sweet Alayne. I am Marillion. I saw you come in from the rain. The night is chill and wet. Let me warm you."

    “Alayne.” Her aunt’s singer stood over her. “Sweet Alayne. I am Marillion. I saw you come in from the rain. The night is chill and wet. Let me warm you.”

    The old dog raised his head and growled, but the singer gave him a cuff and sent him slinking off, whimpering.

    “Marillion?” she said, uncertain. “You are . . . kind to think of me, but . . . pray forgive me. I am very tired.”

    “And very beautiful. All night I have been making songs for you in my head. A lay for your eyes, a ballad for your lips, a duet to your breasts. I will not sing them, though. They were poor things, unworthy of such beauty.” He sat on her bed and put his hand on her leg. “Let me sing to you with my body instead.”

    She caught a whiff of his breath. “You’re drunk.”

    “I never get drunk. Mead only makes me merry. I am on fire.” His hand slipped up to her thigh. “And you as well.”

    “Unhand me. You forget yourself.”

    “Mercy. I have been singing love songs for hours. My blood is stirred. And yours, I know . . . there’s no wench half so lusty as one bastard born. Are you wet for me?”

    “I’m a maiden,” she protested.

    “Truly? Oh, Alayne, Alayne, my fair maid, give me the gift of your innocence. You will thank the gods you did. I’ll have you singing louder than the Lady Lysa.”

    Sansa jerked away from him, frightened. “If you don’t leave me, my au—my father will hang you. Lord Petyr.”

    “Littlefinger?” He chuckled. “Lady Lysa loves me well, and I am Lord Robert’s favorite. If your father offends me, I will destroy him with a verse.” He put a hand on her breast, and squeezed. “Let’s get you out of these wet clothes. You wouldn’t want them ripped, I know. Come, sweet lady, heed your heart—”

    Sansa heard the soft sound of steel on leather. “Singer,” a rough voice said, “best go, if you want to sing again.” The light was dim, but she saw a faint glimmer of a blade.

    The singer saw it too. “Find your own wench—” The knife flashed, and he cried out. “You cut me!”

    “I’ll do worse, if you don’t go.”

    And quick as that, Marillion was gone. The other remained, looming over Sansa in the darkness. “Lord Petyr said watch out for you.” It was Lothor Brune’s voice, she realized. Not the Hound’s, no, how could it be? Of course it had to be Lothor . . .

    That night Sansa scarcely slept at all, but tossed and turned just as she had aboard the Merling King. She dreamt of Joffrey dying, but as he clawed at his throat and the blood ran down across his fingers she saw with horror that it was her brother Robb. And she dreamed of her wedding night too, of Tyrion’s eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. “I’ll have a song from you,” he rasped, and Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once again. “I wish that you were Lady,” she said.

Given that she imagines the hound were Lady, I'd say that the Hound is very close to her heart.  

12 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Sandor Speak is a thing. I can't find the original thread that decodes all of it, but here is a link to a copy and pasted single post version.

  Although I can't find the link right now (it's somewhere on that same Riverlands thread), I also like those imaginary dialogues on the Quiet Isle between lovelorn Sandor and Stranger the reluctant therapist who's sick and tired of hearing about Sansa!  Do you recall who wrote those (it's a whole series)?!

15 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is pure tinfoil, but I have wondered if the Unkiss was a premonition of sorts. Sansa seems to have a weaker connection to the supernatural than her siblings, but that doesn't necessarily mean she is completely cut off from it. Perhaps the kiss she claims to remember is of one to come, rather than one from the past. 

 

5 hours ago, Springwatch said:

 

She didn't think she was going to be raped. She thought she was going to be kissed - and that was quite repulsive enough, thank you.

That is the meaning of the Unkiss that grrm says is so important. A skinchanger can touch human minds - she saw the idea of the kiss in his mind without it ever actually happening.

That's a good idea, and would fit with how the Hound is symbolically configured as her direwolf Lady substitute!  Similarly, it's reminiscent perhaps of how Jon sometimes gets confused between his and Ghost's appetites, even though he knows by now what to expect as a warg:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jon XII

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger . . . he could feel it. It was food he needed, prey, a red deer that stank of fear or a great elk proud and defiant. He needed to kill and fill his belly with fresh meat and hot dark blood. His mouth began to water with the thought.

It was a long moment before he understood what was happening. When he did, he bolted to his feet. "Ghost?" He turned toward the wood, and there he came, padding silently out of the green dusk, the breath coming warm and white from his open jaws. "Ghost!" he shouted, and the direwolf broke into a run. He was leaner than he had been, but bigger as well, and the only sound he made was the soft crunch of dead leaves beneath his paws. When he reached Jon he leapt, and they wrestled amidst brown grass and long shadows as the stars came out above them. "Gods, wolf, where have you been?" Jon said when Ghost stopped worrying at his forearm. "I thought you'd died on me, like Robb and Ygritte and all the rest. I've had no sense of you, not since I climbed the Wall, not even in dreams." The direwolf had no answer, but he licked Jon's face with a tongue like a wet rasp, and his eyes caught the last light and shone like two great red suns.

 

Quote

This meeting of minds is the key to their relationship - not any physical attraction / fantasy - which came much later. It's why he felt compelled to tell her his wretched childhood - something he told no-one else. It's why he can't frighten her off as he does the rest of the world - he acts brutal, she's terrified, and then they end up discussing religion, or something - incredible. She touches his cheek, and it acts on him like a horse tranquilliser. She thinks of shoving Joffrey off a wall, and he reads her like a book.

Neither of them had a friend in the world apart from each other.

So, to return to the OP, if Sandor finds peace in religion - if he doesn't need her any more - the link is gone; she won't need him.

Peace in religion?  I think he has a date with destiny his brother before that -- unfinished business.

[Meera of Tarth]

10 hours ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

 

• Shortly after is her forced marriage to Tyrion. I think this does it. I think this awakens her to reality.

• Sansa does not become infatuated with her altered memory of the Hound until she leaves Kingslanding.

• In the Fingers, she almost gets raped, her mind goes to her protector.

•But who can sleep peacefully after nearly being raped?

And she dreamed of her wedding night too, of Tyrion’s eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. “I’ll have a song from you,” he rasped,

• She has a nightmare triggered by the attempted rape and dreams of other traumatic moments in her life that were sexual in nature (wedding night with Tyrion, the Blackwater incident with the Hound)  -----> believe it or not people try to pin her nightmare as an erotic dream about the Hound. Mind you the girl was nearly raped and that's BOUND to trigger nightmares but ... sigh. 

Moving on.

• As she becomes more dependent on Littlefinger and is subjected to his molestation, she thinks more and more of her protector. Eventually becoming infatuated with him and altering her memory of her last time with him so greatly that it no longer was a traumatizing event. She has romanticized her trauma (hello Joffrey again).

During her first kiss after escaping Kingslanding (not considering her molestation by Littlefinger) Loras invades her thoughts once more but because she has never been kissed by Loras nor experienced a traumatic incident with him that she altered in her mind,

 

So you suggest that the fact that Sandor appeared in her dream AFTER Tyrion who she dislikes means that She associates Sandor with nightmares of rape? Wow.

We all know that subconscious might mean many things, sometimes inner desires, sometimes contradictory things. So...do you discard that her subconscious might mean that she actually desires him? Or maybe just that HE is the one she really desires....instead of Tyroon or.... following your way of thinking, that she wants him  to protect her from the imp's intentions? Wouldn't this be more accurate that associating Sandor wih FEAR and repulsive thoughts?

In fact, in the quote you refer to..there is nothing that suggests than Sandor is associated with Tyrion's intentions, Sansa is not scared. On the contrary, if not an erotic dream, it suggests he could come there as a lover he'd prefer instead of Tyrion, and he is bigger than him (one meaning could be -in your way of thinking-that he is bigger to protect her from the previous lover he is not attarcted to at any level), and there is the "song" that he will have from her, not the best choice of words again if you are writing about someone you are scared of. 

And she dreamed of her wedding night too, of Tyrion's eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. "I'll have a song from you," he rasped, and Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once again. "I wish that you were Lady," she said.

Then......with your thoughts on this case about Sandor=nightmares of rape........if she really is scared by him (up tp the point that she associates him with rape and Tyrion in your analysis).....why does she change her thoughts 180 degrees to making her think that she liked the unkiss (but according to you it's just an infatuation).

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

The way she describes the unkiss it's about a cruel kiss. A kiss that was "cruel" because he had left her nothing escept the bloody cloak=she wanted more. (And actually nothing happened).

So you thinks this is an infatuation, Sansa obliging herself to LIKE this. Then, why does it come after a nuightmare that she associates with Tyrion, rape, something repulsive....?? This is contradictory. I don't subscribe to your idea, but with the quote of the nightmare I think your analysis makes less sense.

Is it  more normal to obligue herself to like/love someone she doesn't want (and have desires about kissing him after a rape dream) than actually processing her growing feelings for a FRIEND that is not the knight she had always dreamed of when she was more naive?.......I don't think so.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

The 'unkiss' fails to excite me.  She fantasized about a kiss that never happened, so what?  However, I do really like @Springwatch's and @The Bard of Banefort's idea that it may indicate Sansa's developing telepathic powers (see below), of which she would obviously not be in full control and would find confusing (especially since she's never had the benefit like Bran or Jon of someone explaining the warg-host bond to her).  The Hound has awakened the dormant Lady within, LOL.

Given that she imagines the hound were Lady, I'd say that the Hound is very close to her heart.  

That's a good idea, and would fit with how the Hound is symbolically configured as her direwolf Lady substitute!  Similarly, it's reminiscent perhaps of how Jon sometimes gets confused between his and Ghost's appetites, even though he knows by now what to expect as a warg:

All of that! I like this.

Quote

  Although I can't find the link right now (it's somewhere on that same Riverlands thread), I also like those imaginary dialogues on the Quiet Isle between lovelorn Sandor and Stranger the reluctant therapist who's sick and tired of hearing about Sansa!  Do you recall who wrote those (it's a whole series)?!

I don't know, but the Riverlands Web thread had good essays on Stranger, they were super funny

[The Fattest Leech]

Aah, the touch to the cheek. Yes, it is important. We see Bran reach out to touch Meera while in the cave, both physically and mentally, and we are expecting to see some sort of recovery in Jon that requires both a mental and physical touch. I don't think it is accurate to discount the physical connection between Beauty and the Beast, sorry, I mean Sansa and the Hound, because we can clearly see how in this moment his rage is tempered.

Also, there are lots of posters here that like to decode the many different places where George could get inspiration for his story ideas. I thoroughly believe that one of the first places to look is George's other, past work. These older stories have oodles and gobs of parallel images, artifacts, and even dialogue that exist within the ASOIAF world.

One such case is in Nightflyers where, during a scene of confusion and angst, one psipsych (an empath) describes that touching another mentally is great and all, but nothing gets you as close to the person, and inside their mind, as physical touch does. Now, in this case the psipsych is talking about not just touch, but also sex, and she explains that the mind of this other person is "chaos" because of all that has built up. Here is a good example of how the author likes to use his own themes throughout his books. Sansa is not sexing on Sandor in this scene, but the knife to her throat is a common penis stand-in for the series, Sansa does make a physical connection, and Sansa also fantasizes about Sandor later. Yes, I do believe this is a setup for these two later in the series, and I think it will be a good thing for both of them. George is a hippy.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It makes a case that your "rebound" claim is based on cherry-picking.

Yes, Sansa keeps on fantasizing. This is not "poor girl". Fantasy is a safe world where young people who begin to develop erotic feelings and desires can experiment in, without embarrassment, without shame, without danger.

The escort scene with Loras is one of mismatching intimacy. Sansa tries to find something honest and meaningful to talk about, instead of courtesies. She wants to "connect" on an emotional level. Loras is merely being courteous. She's experiencing courtesy the same way as Sandor experienced it at the start of the scene in aGoT where he escorts her.

Then she has her very first erotic daydream, which is one about Loras. While this is a first genuine erotic daydream, it's not one born from real sexual attraction. Because obviously there is no chemistry between them. It's the type of erotic fantasy a 13 year old girl has about a teen-pop-idol. And that's alright. That's good. 12-13 year old girls should have fantasies about a male who's not actually available to fantasise what kissing, and touching, and seeing might be like. It's through fantasy that a girl growing into a woman experiments how she would prefer to have sex when she's actually ready to have sex.

The mistake you make is to call the first mention of the Unkiss a "fantasy". It's not really a fantasy. It's an altered memory. Sansa does not recognize the unkiss as a fantasy. She thinks it really happened. Hence it's not a "rebound fantasy", because it isn't a "fantasy" to her. And in aSoS, Sansa II it's not something she makes less of or even romanticises.

That this false memory of the kiss is not a fantasy at that point in time is further emphasized by the fact that George has Sansa actively try to fantasize about Willas, which fail to be erotic at all, with erotic Loras fantasies intruding.

So, why doesn't Sansa fantasize about Sandor at this point of time? Because she does not recognize the attraction. By keeping it out of her fantasy world, and instead having it as a false memory, she can deny desiring him. That she in fact does is not something she can accept. This further undermines this argument that it's supposed to be a "rebound" thing for Loras. It is an actual, genuine rival attraction, but one she does not want to recognize as such.

Then comes the real life experience of the wedding night, where she sees a man naked and in erection for her, a man she doesn't want on any level (emotional, mental, physical). That's very in her face, especially for a 13-year old. It's quite a jump from imagining kissing Loras and in naked torso to purple bulbous head cock in erection just for her.

Only when she's truly over her idol-crush on Loras and free from havnig to ice herself up to protect herself from Tyrion's lust (but now able to remember it from a safe distance in time) does she dream about Sandor naked in the marriage bed, after having heard Lysa scream out her orgasm. This isn't about a "deal with trauma of Sandor's threatening behavior" anymore. This isn't about kissing anymore. It's a full blown erotic dream of Sandor desiring her, and she wanting him to be in a bed with her. Again though, it's not a fantasy yet. Human minds are in control on what we daydream about. That is "fantasy". We are not in control over what we dream about. That is our subconscious not wanting to be repressed, but wanting us to recognize something about ourselves.

"Only when she's truly over her idol-crush on Loras and free from havnig to ice herself up to protect herself from Tyrion's lust (but now able to remember it from a safe distance in time) does she dream about Sandor naked in the marriage bed, after having heard Lysa scream out her orgasm. This isn't about a "deal with trauma of Sandor's threatening behavior" anymore. This isn't about kissing anymore. It's a full blown erotic dream of Sandor desiring her, and she wanting him to be in a bed with her. "

 

•Oh My gosh these people! She DID NOT have an erotic dream. The girl was NEARLY RAPED and had A NIGHTMARE. Like wtf? Who nearly gets raped and have erotic dreams about two of the most traumatic moments in their lives? NO ONE. Who gets nearly raped and has a nightmare (merging the most traumatic sexually based moments of her life into one) LOTS of people. 

SanSan shippers continuing to ignore Sansa's trauma to convince themselves the way she deals with them (from altered memories to nightmare) is some proof that she's in looooooooooooove.

She was just nearly raped and it triggered a nightmare but who cares about her psychological well being. It was an erotic dream because thirteen year olds are just so turned on by almost getting raped.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

So you suggest that the fact that Sandor appeared in her dream AFTER Tyrion who she dislikes means that She associates Sandor with nightmares of rape? Wow.

We all know that subconscious might mean many things, sometimes inner desires, sometimes contradictory things. So...do you discard that her subconscious might mean that she actually desires him? Or maybe just that HE is the one she really desires....instead of Tyroon or.... following your way of thinking, that she wants him  to protect her from the imp's intentions? Wouldn't this be more accurate that associating Sandor wih FEAR and repulsive thoughts?

In fact, in the quote you refer to..there is nothing that suggests than Sandor is associated with Tyrion's intentions, Sansa is not scared. On the contrary, if not an erotic dream, it suggests he could come there as a lover he'd prefer instead of Tyrion, and he is bigger than him (one meaning could be -in your way of thinking-that he is bigger to protect her from the previous lover he is not attarcted to at any level), and there is the "song" that he will have from her, not the best choice of words again if you are writing about someone you are scared of. 

And she dreamed of her wedding night too, of Tyrion's eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. "I'll have a song from you," he rasped, and Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once again. "I wish that you were Lady," she said.

Then......with your thoughts on this case about Sandor=nightmares of rape........if she really is scared by him (up tp the point that she associates him with rape and Tyrion in your analysis).....why does she change her thoughts 180 degrees to making her think that she liked the unkiss (but according to you it's just an infatuation).

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

The way she describes the unkiss it's about a cruel kiss. A kiss that was "cruel" because he had left her nothing escept the bloody cloak=she wanted more. (And actually nothing happened).

So you thinks this is an infatuation, Sansa obliging herself to LIKE this. Then, why does it come after a nuightmare that she associates with Tyrion, rape, something repulsive....?? This is contradictory. I don't subscribe to your idea, but with the quote of the nightmare I think your analysis makes less sense.

Is it  more normal to obligue herself to like/love someone she doesn't want (and have desires about kissing him after a rape dream) than actually processing her growing feelings for a FRIEND that is not the knight she had always dreamed of when she was more naive?.......I don't think so.

"So you suggest that the fact that Sandor appeared in her dream AFTER Tyrion who she dislikes means that She associates Sandor with nightmares of rape?"

•Because she had a TRAUMATIZING experience with both of them that what sexually charged. Oh wait, SanSan fans like to convince themselves that the Hound coming to her room during Blackwater wasn't traumatizing or scary for her at all. It was super romantic. Denial as strong as Sansa's I see.

 

"So you thinks this is an infatuation, Sansa obliging herself to LIKE this. Then, why does it come after a nuightmare that she associates with Tyrion, rape, something repulsive"

•Are you being serious? Her nightmare included BOTH Tyrion and the Hound. But of course SanSan fans were too busy claiming the girl was caught up in an erotic dream after another traumatic sexually based night.

 

Then......with your thoughts on this case about Sandor=nightmares of rape........if she really is scared by him (up tp the point that she associates him with rape and Tyrion in your analysis).....why does she change her thoughts 180 degrees to making her think that she liked the unkiss        ----->  It's like you're totally clueless of Sansa's character and how strong her ability to deny reality is. 

 

The Hound is Sansa's protector. Which is why Sansa's mind alters her memory about him after Blackwater Bay. (Kind of like after Lady's death and Sansa alters her memory of the event so that Joffrey wouldn't be to blame and she could keep on loving him.)

See how her mind works?

Something unpleasant happens concerning someone she likes (Jofrrey) or her protector (the Hound) she can't accept reality or deal with what happens, so her mind alters it. That is why her mind has her *loving* Joffrey even after the incident with Lady. That's why her mind turned the Unkiss into a romantic moment instead of allowing her to deal with the trauma that her protector put her through during Blackwater.

 

"The way she describes the unkiss it's about a cruel kiss. A kiss that was "cruel" because he had left her nothing escept the bloody cloak=she wanted more. (And actually nothing happened)."

•That's 100% YOUR interpretation about why she used the world cruel. Cruel has been used to describe a kiss before in the books and it was describing the force/harshness of the kiss. Which would fit with Sansa's idea of how a kiss would feel from this man. Harsh, brutal, and cruel. Has nothing to do with the cloak.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It makes a case that your "rebound" claim is based on cherry-picking.

Yes, Sansa keeps on fantasizing. This is not "poor girl". Fantasy is a safe world where young people who begin to develop erotic feelings and desires can experiment in, without embarrassment, without shame, without danger.

The escort scene with Loras is one of mismatching intimacy. Sansa tries to find something honest and meaningful to talk about, instead of courtesies. She wants to "connect" on an emotional level. Loras is merely being courteous. She's experiencing courtesy the same way as Sandor experienced it at the start of the scene in aGoT where he escorts her.

Then she has her very first erotic daydream, which is one about Loras. While this is a first genuine erotic daydream, it's not one born from real sexual attraction. Because obviously there is no chemistry between them. It's the type of erotic fantasy a 13 year old girl has about a teen-pop-idol. And that's alright. That's good. 12-13 year old girls should have fantasies about a male who's not actually available to fantasise what kissing, and touching, and seeing might be like. It's through fantasy that a girl growing into a woman experiments how she would prefer to have sex when she's actually ready to have sex.

The mistake you make is to call the first mention of the Unkiss a "fantasy". It's not really a fantasy. It's an altered memory. Sansa does not recognize the unkiss as a fantasy. She thinks it really happened. Hence it's not a "rebound fantasy", because it isn't a "fantasy" to her. And in aSoS, Sansa II it's not something she makes less of or even romanticises.

That this false memory of the kiss is not a fantasy at that point in time is further emphasized by the fact that George has Sansa actively try to fantasize about Willas, which fail to be erotic at all, with erotic Loras fantasies intruding.

So, why doesn't Sansa fantasize about Sandor at this point of time? Because she does not recognize the attraction. By keeping it out of her fantasy world, and instead having it as a false memory, she can deny desiring him. That she in fact does is not something she can accept. This further undermines this argument that it's supposed to be a "rebound" thing for Loras. It is an actual, genuine rival attraction, but one she does not want to recognize as such.

Then comes the real life experience of the wedding night, where she sees a man naked and in erection for her, a man she doesn't want on any level (emotional, mental, physical). That's very in her face, especially for a 13-year old. It's quite a jump from imagining kissing Loras and in naked torso to purple bulbous head cock in erection just for her.

Only when she's truly over her idol-crush on Loras and free from havnig to ice herself up to protect herself from Tyrion's lust (but now able to remember it from a safe distance in time) does she dream about Sandor naked in the marriage bed, after having heard Lysa scream out her orgasm. This isn't about a "deal with trauma of Sandor's threatening behavior" anymore. This isn't about kissing anymore. It's a full blown erotic dream of Sandor desiring her, and she wanting him to be in a bed with her. Again though, it's not a fantasy yet. Human minds are in control on what we daydream about. That is "fantasy". We are not in control over what we dream about. That is our subconscious not wanting to be repressed, but wanting us to recognize something about ourselves.

 

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Aah, the touch to the cheek. Yes, it is important. We see Bran reach out to touch Meera while in the cave, both physically and mentally, and we are expecting to see some sort of recovery in Jon that requires both a mental and physical touch. I don't think it is accurate to discount the physical connection between Beauty and the Beast, sorry, I mean Sansa and the Hound, because we can clearly see how in this moment his rage is tempered.

Also, there are lots of posters here that like to decode the many different places where George could get inspiration for his story ideas. I thoroughly believe that one of the first places to look is George's other, past work. These older stories have oodles and gobs of parallel images, artifacts, and even dialogue that exist within the ASOIAF world.

One such case is in Nightflyers where, during a scene of confusion and angst, one psipsych (an empath) describes that touching another mentally is great and all, but nothing gets you as close to the person, and inside their mind, as touch does. Now, in this case the psipsych is talking about not just touch, but also sex, and she explains that the mind of this other person is "chaos" because of all that has built up. Here is a good example of how the author likes to use his own themes throughout his books. Sansa is not sexing on Sandor in this scene, but the knife to her throat is a common penis stand-in for the series, Sansa does make a physical connection, and Sansa also fantasizes about Sandor later. Yes, I do believe this is a setup for these two later in the series, and I think it will be a good thing for both of them. George is a hippy.

 

7 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I don't think she is as much frightened now in the Vale to need imaginary memories of protection. It's more about what she really wants insead p what she has.

•She has the threat of Cersei haunting her

•Still being molested (repressing how she feels about this)

•Another forced marriage (something else she doesn't want but hey she's helpless and going along with Littlfinger's plans)

•Hiding her real identity as Sansa (which must mess with her mind a lot)

It's not only physical threats that causes someone to desire protection, strength, etc. Sansa's emotional trauma and stress from Kingslanding have never been dealt with. She just keeps getting more trauma and stress poured on top of it.

[Meera of Tarth]

35 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

So you suggest that the fact that Sandor appeared in her dream AFTER Tyrion who she dislikes means that She associates Sandor with nightmares of rape? 

Because she had a TRAUMATIZING experience with both of them that what sexually charged. Oh wait, SanSan fans like to convince themselves that the Hound coming to her room during Blackwater wasn't traumatizing or scary for her at all. It was super romantic. Denial as strong as Sansa's I see.

Are you being serious? Her nightmare included BOTH Tyrion and the Hound. But of course SanSan fans were too busy claiming the girl was caught up in an erotic dream after another traumatic sexually based night.

 

Well it's you that see the Sandor part as a nightmare. I've described how I see the contrary of that. You asume the most complicated theory on what it's obvious, she is not scared about Sandor in the dream, she only finds Tyrion repulsive. She doesnt complain about Sandor in the dream, she doesn't use the same words as with Tyrion, she lets him do.....

Quote

 

Then......with your thoughts on this case about Sandor=nightmares of rape........if she really is scared by him (up tp the point that she associates him with rape and Tyrion in your analysis).....why does she change her thoughts 180 degrees to making her think that she liked the unkiss        ----->  It's like you're totally clueless of Sansa's character and how strong her ability to deny reality is. 

Again, the part of Sandor shows Sansa is not scared AT ALL. Which is very different from Tyrion's part. If she had dreamed about him raping her, which is not the case as we see in the excerpt, it would make no sense to actually LIKE the Kiss and remember it later. Your theory would make no sense.

Quote

 

That's 100% YOUR interpretation about why she used the world cruel. Cruel has been used to describe a kiss before in the books and it was describing the force/harshness of the kiss. Which would fit with Sansa's idea of how a kiss would feel from this man. Harsh, brutal, and cruel. Has nothing to do with the cloak.

Two things on that. You said the unkiss memory is about a prefabricated memory, a good one, that she invents so as to make the Hound a good guy she should like. Then, why does she describe it as "cruel" in her "infatuation"? Shouldn't it to be about good things according to your analysis? You see cruel as bad, but you say that her infatuation cleans everything that the Hounds is for her (bad guy according to your interpretation). This is contradictory.

Now, second thing, my interprepation goes with the second part of the quote: "he left nothing but a bloody cloak", yes, it's also important.....all of it as a whole is a good memory/half invented memory. A sexual one, in fact.

But because she actually wants to believe in it. If she was so traumatised up to the point of dreaming that he is raping her (not in the text at all) then he would not have the unkiss memory.

[Houseofthedirewolves]

7 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well it's you that see the Sandor part as a nightmare. I've described how I see the contrary of that. You asume the most complicated theory on what it's obvious, she is not scared about Sandor in the dream, she only finds Tyrion repulsive. She doesnt complain about Sandor in the dream, she doesn't use the same words as with Tyrion, she lets him do.....

Again, the part of Sandor shows Sansa is not scared AT ALL. Which is very different from Tyrion's part. If she had dreamed about him raping her, which is not the case as we see in the excerpt, it would make no sense to actually LIKE the Kiss and remember it later. Your theory would make no sense.

Two things on that. You said the unkiss memory is about a prefabricated memory, a good one, that she invents so as to make the Hound a good guy she should like. Then, why does she describe it as "cruel" in her "infatuation"?

Now, second thing, my interprepation goes with the second part of the quote: "he left nothing but a bloody cloak", which is a good memory/half invented memory. But because she actually wants to believe in it. If she was so traumatised up to the point of dreaming that he is raping her (not in the text at all) then he would not have the unkiss memory. Why doesn't she have unkiss or similar stuff with Tyrion then?

•Because a kiss from a harsh, brutal, and vicious guy like the hound would not be soft and sweet. It would be a cruel, harsh kiss that fits the man delivering it. 

•Did she have a friendship with Tyrion like she had with the Hound.

•If her infatuation with the Hound is based on what the Hound represents (strength and protection) does short, crippled TYRION seem like he would represents those things to her?

•Not to mention Tyrion is a Lannister and she absolutely HATES the Lannisters. Yes she recognizes Tyrion's moments of kindness but it doesn't change her overall feelings. She's always SUSPICIOUS. 

 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

4 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

Because a kiss from a harsh, brutal, and vicious guy like the hound would not be soft and sweet. It would be a cruel, harsh kiss that fits the man delivering it. 

And it still fits a sexual desire of a girl who has awaken her sexual feelings for someone she desires. It makes more sense to believe she daydreams about this because she is discovering she actually likes this guy.

//sorry, only the bolded part.

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

Harsh, yes.....not brutal or vicious..... (from the books).

[Houseofthedirewolves]

Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

And it still fits a sexual desire of a girl who has awaken her sexual feelings for someone she desires. It makes more sense to believe she daydreams about this because she is discovering she actually likes this guy.

//sorry, only the bolded part.

Cool thing that it also falls under infatuation. 

[zandru]

54 minutes ago, Houseofthedirewolves said:

•Oh My gosh these people! She DID NOT have an erotic dream. The girl was NEARLY RAPED and had A NIGHTMARE. Like wtf? Who nearly gets raped and have erotic dreams about two of the most traumatic moments in their lives? NO ONE. Who gets nearly raped and has a nightmare (merging the most traumatic sexually based moments of her life into one) LOTS of people. 

This is, I think, a better description of Sansa's dream as being a rape nightmare. Plus, she's drifted off to sleep with the sounds of her aunt's ear-splitting screams echoing through the towerhouse. "Erotic"? Hardly. Screaming would be more suggestive of trauma than joy, and a PTSD trigger for the Kingslanding riot.

Otherwise, Sansa is inclined to think of the Hound when she wants a protector. She likes the idea of the Hound more than she likes the actual Sandor Clegane. Sandor is just a big ugly scary guy, generally covered with blood and drunk.