snow is the man

how powerful was blood raven

52 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Not trying to disagree but I really think this is relevant to the current OP.

Anyway I believe that would depend on Maekar's grief stricken heart. Mind and soul must be at peace to achieve full potential. Especially in Maekar's case if he was "sulking" the whole time idk if he would want to rule knowing Baelor should be in his position. 

For the record I think Maekar was in his own way really awesome but this was beyond tragic I couldn't even imagine and to add salt the people who didn't have a clue what occurred are accusing you of "cutting in line for King" or a kin-slayer. 

 

But I also could definitely see what you suggested with no issue.

I just thought his mental/broken heart health was worth mentioning.

 

Well yes, the "broken heart" would certainly have played a role. But I think that it would depend how he handled it. Would he throw himself into the realm's work or would he withdraw from public business? I don't feel that we, or at least I, have enough on Maekar to know how he'd react to all this but I'm more inclined to think that he would seek to do his duty.

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On 6/11/2017 at 9:30 PM, snow is the man said:

I mean before he ended up north of the wall. I was reading the dunk and egg adventures and was wondering just how powerful he was before he went north of the wall.

Not so powerful. He crossed the king and ended up in the black cells. 

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Posted (edited)

On 6/11/2017 at 9:30 PM, snow is the man said:

I mean before he ended up north of the wall. I was reading the dunk and egg adventures and was wondering just how powerful he was before he went north of the wall.

Very powerful.  He was a spymaster while serving on the Small Counsel of Daeron II Targaryen.  During this period he established a formidable fighting force of longbowmen called the Raven's Teeth who played a key roll in ending the first Blackfyre Rebellion. He served as Master of Whisperers and Hand to the King during the reign of Aerys I Targaryen and was thought by many people to use sorcery and magic to aid him in his efforts to gather information for the realm.  He was given the honour of wielding the ancestral Targaryen sword Dark Sister.  He continued to serve as Hand to the King for King Maekar I until that king died eleven years later.  Succession to the throne after Maekar's death was uncertain so, as Hand, Bloodraven called a Great Council to determine who would be next to ascend to the Iron Throne.  

 

"How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? A thousand eyes, and one".

Edited by White Ravens

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17 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

Well yes, the "broken heart" would certainly have played a role. But I think that it would depend how he handled it. Would he throw himself into the realm's work or would he withdraw from public business? I don't feel that we, or at least I, have enough on Maekar to know how he'd react to all this but I'm more inclined to think that he would seek to do his duty.

I also think he would pour himself into his work. Good point 

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1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Not so powerful. He crossed the king and ended up in the black cells. 

He sacrificed his honor for the good of the realm. He didn't cross him, he made him. 

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1 minute ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

He sacrificed his honor for the good of the realm. He didn't cross him, he made him. 

and if he was as powerful as the rumors stated, he never would have ended up in jail after killing someone under guestright 

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Just now, Dorian Martell's son said:

and if he was as powerful as the rumors stated, he never would have ended up in jail after killing someone under guestright 

That would mean fighting the side he dedicated his adult life to saving/preserving. He wasn't self-serving enough to fight Egg when he knew Egg had to make that decision. And besides he had to come back north sometime anyway :)

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1 minute ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

That would mean fighting the side he dedicated his adult life to saving/preserving. He wasn't self-serving enough to fight Egg when he knew Egg had to make that decision. And besides he had to come back north sometime anyway :)

I wasn't talking about fighting. I was talking about magic, mind control and other rumors of his powers 

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Just now, Dorian Martell's son said:

I wasn't talking about fighting. I was talking about magic, mind control and other rumors of his powers 

True but he knew he was coming and offered him safe conduct. He wasn't caught off guard or anything. He made a choice.

Idk it's just he didn't go down swinging for a reason of his own. 

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1 minute ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

True but he knew he was coming and offered him safe conduct. He wasn't caught off guard or anything. He made a choice.

Idk it's just he didn't go down swinging for a reason of his own. 

He was willing to make a sacrifice that he couldn't get out of. That is not all powerful 

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On 6/12/2017 at 4:15 AM, chrisdaw said:

He was able to remove all the rats from KL during the Spring Sickness, unless you think that was just a freak occurrence or someone else.

When I read that in the book I thought maybe it was from the fire that started but him using sorcery makes more sense

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14 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Tywin, Varys, BRAN and a warrior. Can't forget the psychic shit.

what psychic stuff

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

When I read that in the book I thought maybe it was from the fire that started but him using sorcery makes more sense

Sorcery, specifically skinchanging. The logical conclusion from thinking about that passage would be that Bloodraven skin changed rats in the city and made them leave, or maybe even killed them, to try and prevent the Spring Sickness causing any more deaths.

Which is nice and all but with no real meaning in it, but perhaps for this passage. The she is Serra, the much theorised mother of Aegon and a Blackfyre.

Quote

"How did she die?" Tyrion knew that she was dead; no man spoke so fondly of a woman who had abandoned him.

"A Braavosi trading galley called at Pentos on her way back from the Jade Sea. The Treasure carried cloves and saffron, jet and jade, scarlet samite, green silk … and the grey death. We slew her oarsmen as they came ashore and burned the ship at anchor, but the rats crept down the oars and paddled to the quay on cold stone feet. The plague took two thousand before it ran its course." Magister Illyrio closed the locket. "I keep her hands in my bedchamber. Her hands that were so soft …" 

Tyrion thought of Tysha. He glanced out at the fields where once the gods had walked. "What sort of gods make rats and plagues and dwarfs?"

 

Edited by chrisdaw

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8 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Not so powerful. He crossed the king and ended up in the black cells. 

Cmon now. Br went to the wall on purpose. He went with aemon and at least a hundred Ravens teeth, quickly rose to LC then went north of the wall. Going to the wall was the big first step in his fight against the long night

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1 hour ago, Aegon VII said:

Cmon now. Br went to the wall on purpose. He went with aemon and at least a hundred Ravens teeth, quickly rose to LC then went north of the wall. Going to the wall was the big first step in his fight against the long night

Nope. Bloodraven went to the wall so the king did not have to kill him for treason, sedition and the accursed stigma of violating the guest right. 
There is nothing to indicate that bloodraven planned to go to the wall, aside from reader fan fic of course. If he had a grand plan to go north, become the last greenseer and fight for the dawn, he could have just left, rather than doing something horrible 

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2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Nope. Bloodraven went to the wall so the king did not have to kill him for treason, sedition and the accursed stigma of violating the guest right. 
There is nothing to indicate that bloodraven planned to go to the wall, aside from reader fan fic of course. If he had a grand plan to go north, become the last greenseer and fight for the dawn, he could have just left, rather than doing something horrible 

Fan fic? Just because something isn't explicit in the text doesn't mean it's fiction. You may think it most likely that Br went to the wall against his will. I think it most likely he orchestrated the whole thing. We may never know who's right, but you calling it fan fic is just wrong. It's a competing theory that I and some others view as the most likely explanation of events. Him going to the wall on purpose makes a hell of a lot more sense than him being outwitted. He was in control of the entire realm before it happened, and going to the wall and then further north was a necessary step in his fight against the others. He sacrificed his name no honor for the good of the realm, and it was completely by design. You can disagree with it, but to call it fan fic is either a lie or a far too restrictive interpretation of the text.

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On June 14, 2017 at 4:52 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Comparing the "world bank" and a person in terms of "power" would normally be ridiculous.

But if you're being honest with yourself, Bloodraven could probably just keep skin changing into different leaders of the iron bank until the leaders were in no position to secure a bank properly.

Bloodraven wins bc he could remain anonymous while the iron bank is trying to fight ghosts. It's really not even fair 

Haha, yeah I never meant to compare them against each other, more that br and iron bank are in a league of their own, and everyone else is beneath them in terms of power/ influence ( except the others, cotf, and dragons potentially).

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23 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Tywin, Varys, BRAN and a warrior. Can't forget the psychic shit.

I think that he acknowledged his psychic power AFTER he became a member of the NW not before.

 

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11 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Fan fic? Just because something isn't explicit in the text doesn't mean it's fiction. You may think it most likely that Br went to the wall against his will. I think it most likely he orchestrated the whole thing. We may never know who's right, but you calling it fan fic is just wrong. It's a competing theory that I and some others view as the most likely explanation of events. Him going to the wall on purpose makes a hell of a lot more sense than him being outwitted. He was in control of the entire realm before it happened, and going to the wall and then further north was a necessary step in his fight against the others. He sacrificed his name no honor for the good of the realm, and it was completely by design. You can disagree with it, but to call it fan fic is either a lie or a far too restrictive interpretation of the text.

Why would he have to "orchestrate" anything when he would just be able to go to the wall under his own free will, like Maester Aemon? He was the most powerful man in the realm for a long time. So no, it makes no sense for him to enact some overly convoluted plan to violate the oldest tradition on the continent, destroy his own honor, wreck the honor of his family and then hope to get exiled to the wall instead of being executed. The hyper-convoluted explanation is what happens when there is over half a decade between installments of the books and fans end up digging for every little morsel they can find, and there is very little bloodraven in the books. So yes, fan fic is apt. 

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13 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Haha, yeah I never meant to compare them against each other, more that br and iron bank are in a league of their own, and everyone else is beneath them in terms of power/ influence ( except the others, cotf, and dragons potentially).

Ahh I see. I agree with you

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