Barbrey's Busted Barrow and Brandon's Bloody Blade

[hiemal]

5 hours ago, Seams said:

Alliteration? Actually, it is brindled black and white, and there does seem to be a motif around things that are black and white, so maybe the boar is a symbol like the doors of Arya's assassination cult, the white Wall with Castle Black, cyvasse pieces, Moqorro, the Night's Watch vs. the King's Guard, etc.

It is intriguing that Lady Dustin gave colts to the nasty young Freys. I wonder if there is a code in the colors of her horses? Grey might mean, "marked for death." Grey is such a Stark color.

I think there is, although I am still floundering in trying to pin it down. Gray seems to be the color of blurred boundaries- death in life if you will. One of the Frey boys has slain the other, and I wouldn't put money on his surviving the winter.

[hiemal]

The horsey color code:

I wonder how the Ryswells, the House of 4 different colors (if I might cruelly stretch a pun), relates and how the they relate to human hair and eye colors:

We have 4 horse's heads and 4 colors; black, gray, brown, and gold.

Death, death-in-life, the commonality, and royalty?

[Pain killer Jane]

21 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

That's a great example and I agree with the greenseer associations.  @The Fattest Leech just mentioned on our new Bran's growing powers reread thread that the pyramids in Meereen might have some correlations to Bloodraven's cave  (hope you will tell us more over there soon, Leech!)  

Thank you. And @The Fattest Leech I await this argument eagerly. 

21 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Quentyn the would-be dragontamer, by breaking his way into the pyramid with a hammer is showing us someone 'breaking into the weirnet' by force -- 'the hammer' alluding to 'the hammer of the waters', perhaps -- and forfeiting his life in the process.  If the pyramid represents 'Nissa Nissa,' then the keyhole would additionally represent what I've termed rather indecorously 'the front door', i.e. vagina, so forcing ones way in, to the protest of the 'screaming hinges' (reminiscent of Euron's similar violations) is akin to a rape.  In summary, both the Azor Ahai figure and Nissa Nissa are sacrificed in the process, catalyzed with much 'fire and blood'!  

Quentyn, himself, is a symbolic greenman, dragon blooded, scarecrow, frog prince but it is another green dragon that gets him from behind. I agree that AA and NN are sacrificed in the process but there has to be a third person who further betrayed AA and NN. 

22 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Given that the dragons lie 'coiled in the stygian darkness', or rather in themselves represent a 'coiled stygian darkness' (It was black beyond the doors, a sullen stygian darkness that seemed alive and threatening, hungry. Quentyn could sense that there was something in that darkness, coiled and waiting); perhaps they represent the weirwoods (their roots similarly described as 'coiling' in Bloodraven's cavern); the curious adjective 'stygian' evoking the river Styx of the underworld, which is a mirror for the cold, black underground 'sunless sea' in Bloodraven's cavern.  Barging through the forbidden iron doors of the pyramid thus constitutes crossing the boundary between life and death.  Alternatively, perhaps the two dragons represent the two greenseers, Bloodraven (the elder white dragon) and Bran (the green dragon no one sees coming), making the others forcing their way in competing greenseers perhaps, or someone who hopes to steal greenseer powers = 'steal the fire of the [old] gods'.

Nice catch on the stygian darkness. The river Styx was also the river oaths and promised were sworn on. Therefore the stygian darkness is not just a sunless sea but the wishing well as well. 

I agree that is crossing the boundary between life and death and we have the crone with lantern peering into the door of death and letting the first raven into the world, not unlike Quentyn and the dragons. But on the vein of the sunless sea and the stygian darkness and wishing wells, which is also associated with the dark mirror pool at Winterfell, I suspect that the boundary between life and death and forcing yourself through it can be thought of as going through 'a mirror darkly' or the shattering of a mirror and the subsequent bad luck.  

As to BR and Bran being the dragons, I could see that but I think they might represent Sansa and Arya. Viserion was said to hang from the rafters like a great white bat and Sansa was said to turn into a great wolf with bat wings and Arya seems to be the one that the scarecrow (whoever that may be, probably Aegon VI as he is the mummer's dragon on poles) will not see coming. 

22 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Ironically, the door in question shows signs of something trying to get out rather than in, yet another sign of the 'fell presence imprisoned in the weirwood' (or 'minotaur in the labyrinth') motif we've noted elsewhere (P.S. Do the errant dragons eventually leave via the 'front' or 'back' doors...do you recall?!):

I noticed that about the doors as well and the chains hanging off of Viserion as if he were an escaped 'prentice boy or the Umber sigil come to life. 

They escaped via the front door. 

Here is another curious thing as well. The usage of the word 'dog' as the password. I got the impression that the word dog was meant to signal impostors or traitors and given that we have several impostor Hounds running around, I thought perhaps that is connected. 

22 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Regarding the '23 keyholders' of the Iron Bank, do you think the number '23' might be symbolically significant?  I found this list of quirky references to the number 23, of which you might find #12 and #16 particularly interesting.

I have never really thought about the number 23.

12 and 16 are extremely interesting, as is number 6. Given the belief that the number 23 confers super maleness and the 23 chromosomes and the 23 keys and their holders could be connected to the sexual, fertility, penetration and rape themes associated with keys, axes and hammers. 

 

23 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Talking of 'keys and burrows,' I have another example for you, involving our underworld gatekeeper, Barbrey Dustin herself!  Actually, I can't decide whether she's more of a legitimate gatekeeper or unwelcome intruder into the 'stygian darkness' of the Stark domain, analogous to Quentyn.  Fittingly, in her black sable coat, she resembles one of the Mustelidae, including a number of furtive predator weasel-like creatures who are known to frequent both burrows and trees, with obvious greenseer associations.  She is one of the few characters who wears a full- rather than merely trimmed- sable coat (she's even described as 'feral' with sharp features, almost licking her lips)...IIRC, the other characters are Waymar Royce, Euron Greyjoy who stripped it off Blacktyde, Joffrey, and Ramsay Bolton -- strangely enough, all usurpers of one kind or another.  

So perhaps we can interpret Lady Dustin seeking to enter the Winterfell crypt in terms of an attempt to usurp Stark power, which is suggested by her discussion with Theon in which they both confess rather jealously to wanting to be Starks.  She uses Theon to open the secret entrance to the crypt, so perhaps Theon is the 'axe', 'hammer,' or 'key' equivalent here -- ironically, considering he has barely any 'sharp' appendages left...  

Nice catch on Theon being the key. I think Lady Barbery is like Quentyn. Theon is a broken sword and therefore a broken key. Quentyn didn't have the proper key for the lock and had to brake the lock with a hammer. The usurper thus is a person not using the right key but still getting the result they wanted.

And it is interesting that she is clad as a mustelidae but the fire transforms her into a fox; an animal prized for its wits but hunted for its fur.  

And something for you as well. The mummer that comes back with Cleos Frey from Kingslanding using Edmure's voice to trick the Riverrun guards into releasing Jaime. Edmure's voice would then be a key as well but was used in trickery and betrayal; it is in the same realm as your killing word. 

23 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Besides Theon as figurative axe, predictably there is also a literal axe in play employed to deliver the final blow -- and would you know it, some 'screaming hinges', and specially for you my friend, some serpentine steps (associated with number 23...) too!  

Fantastic find!! The spiraling steps worn in the middle by feet, I have always found interesting. It is a theory of mine that it is a reference to the Parthenon steps, that are an optical allusion. They are straight from far away but dip in the middle when you actually walk the steps. And interestingly enough the name Parthenon is taken to mean "an unmarried woman's apartments". And therefore feeds into my theory about the serpentine steps, the association of the Maidenvault and the merging of the Athena and Persephone myths. 

[Traverys]

On 6/13/2017 at 11:26 AM, Springwatch said:

Oh I see it. She really might have done. Her maiden's gift.

I've got rule of thumb for horses which is simply that any described horse is a reflection of it's rider - most specifically the rider's spirit or lifeforce. The Frey boys grey colts are a good example (the boys are grey characters, and young), and so is Ramsay's Blood (Ramsay is ... Ramsay). All totally meta, of course - no basis in-world.

There's a couple of exceptions to the rule, and the red stallion is one of them. OK, it's possible Lord Dustin had a strong and fiery spirit, eager to deal out fire and/or blood to his enemies. The problem is that Lord Dustin is dead, and against all precedent, his spirit apparently refused to die with him, and walked home without a body. This broke my rule of thumb into a thousand tiny pieces.

I toyed around with the idea of ghosts - I'm sure there will be ghosts - but if Lord Dustin has been the unquiet dead for all these years, he's been remarkably low-key about it. No-one's noticed him.

Then I hit on the obvious solution: it was Lady Dustin's spirit that carried him south. The thought of Lady Dustin got him fired up and drove him to fight for her beloved Starks. (What a great husband - no wonder she was furious to lose him.)

This is not just a pretty theory; it has two nice consequences:

• Lady Dustin is awesome. It's her that is the red stallion of the Ryswells and the pride of her father.
• The red horse survived the death of Lord Dustin, and came home essentially unchanged. Lady Dustin is unchanged also - still a diehard Stark supporter.

She is pretty awesome. One of the most interesting female characters.

[Springwatch]

16 hours ago, hiemal said:

The horsey color code:

I wonder how the Ryswells, the House of 4 different colors (if I might cruelly stretch a pun), relates and how the they relate to human hair and eye colors:

We have 4 horse's heads and 4 colors; black, gray, brown, and gold.

Death, death-in-life, the commonality, and royalty?

Could be - at the most conservative we know that Ryswell family members have different characters, which is probably why they quarrel so much. Nice that red is left free for Barbrey. Seems like we have every possible solid colour except snow white, and even that might be covered by gray.

ETA Wasn't Oberyn's horse black with a red mane, like the Ryswell sigil?  Does he have something in common with House Ryswell?

10 hours ago, Traverys said:

She is pretty awesome. One of the most interesting female characters.

I think so too! I was too easily misled by her saying to Theon something like: I am an old and dried up woman. The lady doth protest too much - isn't she the same age as Cat? In her thirties?  Why is she misleading Theon? What did she want from him?