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Towerblock on Fire in West London


Chaldanya

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Terrorist attack a week before the election, after calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathizer in the media the week leading up, certainty level 100%.  Now burning a tower block possible, RIP people.

The Tories have been social cleansing the economic poor from London for years now as they historically have done, this land will be stolen and made into multi-million pound flats bought by people with government sanctioned mortgages of fiat money.  Fiat money from banks ends up with the Billionaires, even single digit millionaires are waking up to this fact now.

I've seen local council garages where I live go up in smoke and private housing replace them built on land bought for a pound.

We need to take away the State system which has at the moment 8 Oligarchs have the same wealth as 3.5 billion people.

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The number of warnings/complaints about this apartment block that have already surfaced, combined with the fact that this cladding was done to improve the look of the tower for surrounding affluent areas, is really nauseating. That all those warnings were flat out ignored really is a call for charges to be forthcoming.

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20 hours ago, mormont said:

At this point in time that can only be speculation. We'll find out soon enough for sure: rushing to repeat rumours isn't helping.

Everyone is talking about the cladding going up like paper. Its been mentioned on the news even. I'm not rushing "repeat rumours" at all but was listening to the reports going on in the background. It's sad really, totally horrific that this happened at all.  

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2 hours ago, Wolfgirly said:

Everyone is talking about the cladding going up like paper. Its been mentioned on the news even. I'm not rushing "repeat rumours" at all but was listening to the reports going on in the background. It's sad really, totally horrific that this happened at all.  

There is a lot of discussion about this now, yes, and crucially, since you posted, a lot more solid information about this has come to light. But even if speculation later turns out to be well founded, that doesn't mean it wasn't speculation.

The important thing is that there is a full and proper investigation into the causes of the fire - but that can't even begin for a while yet. There are still people missing in there. I expect we'll find out there are multiple reasons why this fire spread so fast.

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Terrible tragedy.

I work in the building envelope industry, and my gut reaction is that the fire was almost certainly exacerbated by the cladding. A lot of cheaper cladding of this type has a polyethylene core, which if I'm not mistaken, was the case in the somewhat recent Victoria fire in Australia.

Generally, fire codes around the world can be pretty strict with regards to fire walls on the interior or between units. However, it can be much less strict or more complicated when it comes to exterior cladding materials and how this affects flame spread. This is often due a combination of factors such as poor enforcement mechanisms, lack of understanding on the part of the architect specifying the job, or or poor understanding of the issue on the part of contractors.

I hope that at least something good comes from this tragedy, and building officials in London learn from it. Especially with all the construction there.

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2 hours ago, Lord of Oop North said:

Terrible tragedy.

I work in the building envelope industry, and my gut reaction is that the fire was almost certainly exacerbated by the cladding. A lot of cheaper cladding of this type has a polyethylene core, which if I'm not mistaken, was the case in the somewhat recent Victoria fire in Australia.

Generally, fire codes around the world can be pretty strict with regards to fire walls on the interior or between units. However, it can be much less strict or more complicated when it comes to exterior cladding materials and how this affects flame spread. This is often due a combination of factors such as poor enforcement mechanisms, lack of understanding on the part of the architect specifying the job, or or poor understanding of the issue on the part of contractors.

I hope that at least something good comes from this tragedy, and building officials in London learn from it. Especially with all the construction there.

Where I used to practice (Northeast US), recent building codes became pretty strict about the usage of exterior foam insulation (extruded polystyrene). With or without the polyethylene core, that shit has a high flame spread index. We hated using the stuff because it's a shit material, but sometimes we had to because of budget. But to meet the code requirements, we had to do a lot of work to make sure there were firestops at each wall opening and between floors to limit the flame spread. More often than not, we used polystyrene not as the exterior cladding itself, but as an insulation material inside a masonry cavity wall, where it can give you some really good R-values that you can't get with fiberglass insulation. I can get more technical and talk about how keeping the foam insulation on the outside is really helpful with regards to keeping the dew point outside of the wall, but suffice to say, it's a good insulating material to use, but you absolutely have to detail your exterior wall properly to limit the flame spread from floor to floor.

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2 hours ago, naz said:

, but you absolutely have to detail your exterior wall properly to limit the flame spread from floor to floor.

Indeed. Detailing for fire code is something that is not always straightforward and needs to be detailed properly and understood by all involved. Sadly, because of this, it can also be easily done incorrectly or forgotten.

It also typically costs more, so .. yeah. Obvious problem there.

This fire terrifies me because I can easily see this exact thing happening here in Ontario.

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3 hours ago, Lord of Oop North said:

Indeed. Detailing for fire code is something that is not always straightforward and needs to be detailed properly and understood by all involved. Sadly, because of this, it can also be easily done incorrectly or forgotten.

It also typically costs more, so .. yeah. Obvious problem there.

This fire terrifies me because I can easily see this exact thing happening here in Ontario.

My brother in law was responsible for a good chunk of the Ontario Fire Code. We will have an interesting talk once he gets back from travelling.

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17 hours ago, mormont said:

There is a lot of discussion about this now, yes, and crucially, since you posted, a lot more solid information about this has come to light. But even if speculation later turns out to be well founded, that doesn't mean it wasn't speculation.

The important thing is that there is a full and proper investigation into the causes of the fire - but that can't even begin for a while yet. There are still people missing in there. I expect we'll find out there are multiple reasons why this fire spread so fast.

The fact that money was spent on cladding when the building lacks in more essential ways in disgusting in itself. 

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17 hours ago, naz said:

Where I used to practice (Northeast US), recent building codes became pretty strict about the usage of exterior foam insulation (extruded polystyrene). With or without the polyethylene core, that shit has a high flame spread index. 

That shit is all over the shoddy building renovations in my neighborhood. They literally just glue these fucking panels to the exterior of shitty buildings and do some minor cosmetic work inside and voila! Hello market-rate renters! I swear that these kinds of retrofits are going to fuel another 1977 All Hands Fire-esque inferno. 

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13 hours ago, maarsen said:

My brother in law was responsible for a good chunk of the Ontario Fire Code. We will have an interesting talk once he gets back from travelling.

Would be interested to hear about this. We have competitors here that sell this same product (as well as a fire retardant version), and I can see it being fine provided that all fire separations are detailed and installed correctly, but that depends on enforcement mechanisms that sometimes Code does not provide due to lack of resources for officials and inspectors.

 

This just gets worse and worse. So many people missing...

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This is dumb, but have read several reports about how the PM has not actually gone in and met the people affected because of "security concerns" (apparently will "visit people in the hospital").  But somehow the Queen, at 91, had no problem going in.  I guess don't mess with someone who stayed in London during the blitz?  From an American perspective the royal family often seems superfluous and strange, but there are moments when I wish we had something similar (minus the homeopathy and marm-ing) - a national conscience that wears great hats.  That is all.

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3 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

This is dumb, but have read several reports about how the PM has not actually gone in and met the people affected because of "security concerns" (apparently will "visit people in the hospital").  But somehow the Queen, at 91, had no problem going in.  I guess don't mess with someone who stayed in London during the blitz?  From an American perspective the royal family often seems superfluous and strange, but there are moments when I wish we had something similar (minus the homeopathy and marm-ing) - a national conscience that wears great hats.  That is all.

isn't that corbyn?

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So now there's protests going on, at the local town hall, one that started by the tower, and now a group outside the local church where Theresa May is reported to be at the moment (Guardian's live report). Mood seems angry (quite justifiably from what we've heard, and haven't heard, so far).

 

 

3 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

 a national conscience that wears great hats.  That is all.

 

What you're saying is you want Michele Obama to develop a taste in hats?

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3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

What you're saying is you want Michele Obama to develop a taste in hats?

Yeah, that could work :lol:

10 minutes ago, commiedore said:

isn't that corbyn?

I don't think he is known for his hats.  Ascots maybe, but that's not the same.

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Of course the daily mail have pictures of the (black) man whose faulty fridge was believed to have started the blaze.  Not of the people who chose the cheaper product, or the (landlord) mp's who voted against legislation that would have made the properties safer.  I fucking despair of our press. 

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