Tywin et al.

U.S. Politics: A Democracy In Decay

406 posts in this topic

Continue....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.vox.com/2017/6/15/15807484/trump-comey-mueller-tweets

Quote

Trump’s resistance to taking responsibility for his actions is perhaps the single greatest threat facing his presidency. If he realized the damage he was doing to himself, he could perhaps stop doing it. But so long as he sees his problems as the product of an unfair “WITCH HUNT,” he will continue to see his reckless, enraged reactions as a reasonable response, and so will continue destabilizing his presidency

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

Has he turned anyone into a newt?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today in: Conservatism, It Rocks!!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/15/kansas-conservative-experiment-may-have-gone-worse-than-people-thought/

Quote

A working paper by economists at Oklahoma State University suggests that cutting taxes actually may have damaged Kansas's economy, resulting in fewer jobs, reduced incomes and a slower pace of growth.

 

Quote

Reduced taxes forced the state to spend less, which could have brought down the overall level of demand for goods and services in the state, the economists believe. 

If I had to make a first guess about what Brownback’s tax cuts did, I think my first answer would be “didn't make a difference either way”. I’d be more hesitant to say it would actually cause damage. So this is interesting.

It looks like demand side factors simply swamped whatever supply side effects Brownback was hoping for. And it may even be the case that Brownback's policies did long term damage to the supply side of Kansas' economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now there's a horrific press conference going on with doctors in Cincinnati where Otto Warmbier, the young man released by North Korea, is hospitalized.

The doctors report he has extensive brain damage. From their testing they believe the damage is consistent with cardio pulmonary arrest. The North Koreans said the coma was caused by a combination of botulism and a sleeping pill. No traces of botulism have been found by the doctors. Some information was provided by the North Koreans on disc, and it sounds like he has been in this condition for a year or so.

The hospital did not find any evidence of abuse, like healed fractures.

I can't imagine what his family is going through. 

I wonder what effect this will have on already strained relations. And what the fates are of the three other US citizens held by the North Koreans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found out about this little parliamentary act that might actually mean something for reconcilation: the 'vote-o-rama'. 

Quote

 

While the special procedures limit the time for debate, they do not limit the number of amendments that can be offered during the Senate’s initial consideration of the bill.  As a result, once the 20-hour limit has expired, remaining amendments are considered with little or no debate — a process known as a “vote-a-rama.”

In the Senate, any amendments offered to a reconciliation bill must be germane to the bill.[4]  This prevents the process from getting bogged down by disputes over tangentially related or unrelated amendments, as often happens to other legislation under regular Senate procedures.

 

In theory this could delay the actual voting of this by as long as Democrats want to do it for. I've called Senator Murray to ask her position on it, and advocate that she at least consider it (this is different than, say, delaying for 20 hours before voting as it would actually accomplish not voting on the bill), and will be calling my other senator shortly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Now if the Republican Party manages to destroy the ACA, and I think it’s highly likely at this juncture, there are two good reasons for the Democrats to pass single payer should they ever return to power.

They are:

1. It's the most efficient way to get universal healthcare done.

2. And it will really piss off conservatives.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/15/15787626/mitch-mcconnell-single-payer-medicare-all

 

Why exactly should Democrats die on the healthcare hill again if they ever regain power? The public has demonstrated they do not want it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, WinterFox said:

Why exactly should Democrats die on the healthcare hill again if they ever regain power? The public has demonstrated they do not want it.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/13/more-americans-say-government-should-ensure-health-care-coverage/

Quote

Currently, 60% of Americans say the government should be responsible for ensuring health care coverage for all Americans, compared with 38% who say this should not be the government’s responsibility. The share saying it is the government’s responsibility has increased from 51% last year and now stands at its highest point in nearly a decade

 

https://morningconsult.com/2017/04/12/plurality-voters-back-single-payer-health-care-system/

Quote

Forty-four percent of voters said they support a system where “all Americans would get their health insurance from one government plan,” while 36 percent said they oppose it.

Also, it's good policy. It will help to get all American insured with a decent level of healthcare, while potentially helping with our long term defecit problems.

Also, I think it's a bad strategy, often in the long term, to just run on what seems to be popular. Sometimes, you have to make the case and try to drag the country in your direction.  For instance, I'd argue that Bill Clinton tried to "triangulate" and all that did was encourage the Republicans to be even more right wing. I'd argue that strategy wasn't successful.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

Why exactly should Democrats die on the healthcare hill again if they ever regain power? The public has demonstrated they do not want it.

That was accurate before; it's not appearing to be accurate now. ACA has well over 55% approval right now, and much of it has as high as 80% approval. Dems (and their opponents) have been VERY good at being able to say what they'd be losing and why, and that has made a lot more people a lot more appreciative. (this remains one of Obama's very worst failures - his ability to speak to what is gained by the ACA). 

Furthermore, this has largely galvanized much of the voters around the country. It is one of the bigger issues talked about now, and more and more people are considering better options. 

I don't think single payer at the country level will work, but I think seeing places like Nevada offer Medicaid for all is going to head in that direction. My next prediction is that places like Nevada will have an exodus of insurance companies as they simply cannot compete with Medicaid, and that'll result in some future changes - but notably, not repealing Medicaid for all, as most people will be happier with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside of that, it's an important hill. You could pick a worse one to die on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/13/more-americans-say-government-should-ensure-health-care-coverage/

 

https://morningconsult.com/2017/04/12/plurality-voters-back-single-payer-health-care-system/

Also, it's good policy. It will help to get all American insured with a decent level of healthcare, while potentially helping with our long term defecit problems.

Also, I think it's a bad strategy, often in the long term, to just run on what seems to be popular. Sometimes, you have to make the case and try to drag the country in your direction.  For instance, I'd argue that Bill Clinton tried to "triangulate" and all that did was encourage the Republicans to be even more right wing. I'd argue that strategy wasn't successful.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

That was accurate before; it's not appearing to be accurate now. ACA has well over 55% approval right now, and much of it has as high as 80% approval. Dems (and their opponents) have been VERY good at being able to say what they'd be losing and why, and that has made a lot more people a lot more appreciative. (this remains one of Obama's very worst failures - his ability to speak to what is gained by the ACA). 

Furthermore, this has largely galvanized much of the voters around the country. It is one of the bigger issues talked about now, and more and more people are considering better options. 

I don't think single payer at the country level will work, but I think seeing places like Nevada offer Medicaid for all is going to head in that direction. My next prediction is that places like Nevada will have an exodus of insurance companies as they simply cannot compete with Medicaid, and that'll result in some future changes - but notably, not repealing Medicaid for all, as most people will be happier with it.

I disagree totally. They keep voting into power madmen who rant and rave against healthcare, that tells me that they don't want it. Pick a new issue, Democrats.

Personally I'd like our national attention to turn to prison reform and infrastructure improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, WinterFox said:

I disagree totally. They keep voting into power madmen who rant and rave against healthcare, that tells me that they don't want it. Pick a new issue, Democrats.

Trump was actually pretty solid on his message on the stump saying that he wasn't going to touch medicare, medicaid or social security (unlike those 'other Republicans'). The AHCA is polling at 20% right now. 

Just now, WinterFox said:

Personally I'd like our national attention to turn to prison reform and infrastructure improvement.

Prison reform would be great. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

Trump was actually pretty solid on his message on the stump saying that he wasn't going to touch medicare, medicaid or social security (unlike those 'other Republicans'). The AHCA is polling at 20% right now. 

Prison reform would be great. 

I wasn't talking necessarily about Trump. And I don't care where anything polls ever, I care about who gets voted into office and what their message is.

I wouldn't mind Education reform, but I think prison and infrastructure would build a lot of goodwill for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, WinterFox said:

 

I disagree totally. They keep voting into power madmen who rant and rave against healthcare, that tells me that they don't want it. Pick a new issue, Democrats.

Personally I'd like our national attention to turn to prison reform and infrastructure improvement.

I think there is little doubt after the ACA was passed, the Democrats took a thumpin’. And Republicans made sure they took a thumpin’.

Now after takin’ ass kickin’ there is two options here. Option 1 is just walk away. Option 2 is pick yourself up from the deck and start fighting again.  I prefer Option 2, particularly since public opinion seems to be turning in the Democrats favor here.

Getting universal healthcare has been a goal of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party since 1946 when Harry Truman first made a speech about it in 1946. I don’t see the logic in quitting now, particularly since the tide seems to be turning, and liberals have been fighting for this for about 70 years.

Both, criminal legal/prison form and infrastructure improvement are worthy policy goals, but I don’t think the Democrats should abandon the healthcare project now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, WinterFox said:

I wasn't talking necessarily about Trump. And I don't care where anything polls ever, I care about who gets voted into office and what their message is.

So do I. And I hope any Democrat who shows he is giving up on healthcare gets primaried by other Democrats who do. One reason is that it shows lack of backbone to give up now.

I'm just not inclined to cede ground to Republicans, particularly where it looks like an issue that can be won. Also, some payback to the Republicans is in order here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're letting emotion cloud your judgement here. Americans don't want healthcare, they've proven it by electing opponents of national healthcare into office. This is the sunk cost fallacy, just because democrats have been fighting for it for 70 years does not mean they should continue to do so. I haven't seen a single piece of tangible evidence that suggests support for healthcare reform has gained traction, just a bunch of polls that seem to ignore the fact that republicans (the anti-healthcare party) are stronger than they've been in a decade.

Medical care is to me a basic human right, but we can return to that subject after a decade or two of progress in areas that aren't such an effective rallying point for the enemy. Maybe by then this big demographic shift I keep hearing about will have happened, we'll see.

And Harry Truman was a piece of shit anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Just now, WinterFox said:

I think you're letting emotion cloud your judgement here. Americans don't want healthcare, they've proven it by electing opponents of national healthcare into office. This is the sunk cost fallacy, just because democrats have been fighting for it for 70 years does not mean they should continue to do so. I haven't seen a single piece of tangible evidence that suggests support for healthcare reform has gained traction, just a bunch of polls that seem to ignore the fact that republicans (the anti-healthcare party) are stronger than they've been in a decade.

Well except the evidence that has been presented to you, so perhaps I'm not the one being emotional here. And it's not like Trump didn't run on healthcare reform. He did. And he made some big promises and now the Republican Party is caught in the lurch because of it.

And what makes you think the Republicans will just roll over and agree to the policies you want anyway. I doubt they will, unless the Democratic Party is willing to fight for them.

I mean you really think if the Democrats run on a platform of infrastructure spending the Republicans aren't going to say "but, but, the deficit!!!".

Edited by OldGimletEye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well except the evidence that has been presented to you, so perhaps I'm not the one being emotional here. And it's not like Trump didn't run on healthcare reform. He did. And he made some big promises and now the Republican Party is caught in the lurch because of it.

And what makes you think the Republicans will just roll over and agree to the policies you want anyway. I doubt they will, unless the Democratic Party is willing to fight for them.

He ran on "We're going to win! On healthcare there's going to be so much winning!" While the rest of the Republican ticket ran on "fuck medicine, we're gonna kill that shit" and were rewarded for it. I'm not focusing on Trump. He lost the popular vote, I'm talking about the rest of that shithouse party that routinely keeps power. Once they can't blame the evil 'obamacare', maybe we can shift attention to something else. I don't know how they would attack infrastructure if that's actually a part of the campaign. Clinton's biggest gaff was not talking about that enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Just now, WinterFox said:

He ran on "We're going to win! On healthcare there's going to be so much winning!" While the rest of the Republican ticket ran on "fuck medicine, we're gonna kill that shit" and were rewarded for it. I'm not focusing on Trump. He lost the popular vote, I'm talking about the rest of that shithouse party that routinely keeps power. Once they can't blame the evil 'obamacare', maybe we can shift attention to something else. I don't know how they would attack infrastructure if that's actually a part of the campaign. Clinton's biggest gaff was not talking about that enough.

I think you are engaging in some wishful thinking if you think the Democratic Party can simply run on a program of infrastructure spending and not have the Republicans oppose that, citing deficits concerns.

Fact is that if there ever was a case for infrastructure spending, it was about five or six years ago, when it really made sense because borrowing rates were low and we were in a liquidity trap. And the Republicans still opposed that.

Whatever the Democrats propose( and can still call themselves Democrats) the Republicans will oppose.

And it’s true the hard core Republican base will probably never believe in universal healthcare. But, Trump did get voters who were not part of that base and likely believed his promises on healthcare and are about to get disappointed.

Edited by OldGimletEye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seventeen years after the Year 2000 bug came and went, the federal government will finally stop preparing for it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-15/trump-orders-government-to-stop-work-on-y2k-bug-17-years-later

 

It's things like this that cause people like me to be skeptical of the U.S. federal government's ability to do anything efficiently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Seventeen years after the Year 2000 bug came and went, the federal government will finally stop preparing for it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-15/trump-orders-government-to-stop-work-on-y2k-bug-17-years-later

 

It's things like this that cause people like me to be skeptical of the U.S. federal government's ability to do anything efficiently.

To be fair, they kept it in place in case the bug came back at a later date. That said, it's past time to eliminate it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.