Sea Dragon

When did bastards happen?

48 posts in this topic

It's an Andal thing. Applicable to the faith of the seven, adopted by the Targaryen dynasty post conquest. Beyond the wall, everyone is a bastard. 

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Does Tormund practice incest with his daughter/s, like Craster?

Because Maege and Alysane are both single mothers.

Also: the North has vows before heart trees, and take vows seriously. But an unmarried man or woman, or a widow/er, having children breaks no vows. Andal Faith of Seven has rules against sin even if the sinner is otherwise free and unattached.

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you know, that whole situation with the mormont girls actaully helps to clear some of the views that first men of the north have on bastards. technically, all those mormont girls seem to be bastards. we see no mention of fathers that i can recall, no mentions of husbands. they just declare the daughters to be mormonts, and it seems no one cares.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Jaak said:

Does Tormund practice incest with his daughter/s, like Craster?

 

No. Wildlings practise strict exogamy and they view Craster as an exception and an abomination.This is what Ygritte tells Jon:

She punched him. "That's vile. Would you bed your sister?"

"Longspear is not your brother."

"He's of my village. You know nothing, Jon Snow. A true man steals a woman from afar, t' strengthen the clan. Women who bed fathers or brothers or clan kin offend the gods, and are cursed with weak and sickly children. Even monsters."

"Craster weds his daughters," Jon pointed out.

She punched him again. "Craster's more your kind than ours. <snip> Craster's blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse."

Unlike Craster, Tormund is a respected member of wildling society. Besides, he loves all his children very much, and no loving fathers would want their daughters to offend the gods or to be cursed. He himself does not want to be cursed like Craster. Tormund will not practise incest with anyone, not even with Maege's daughters, if they are his. 

Edited by Julia H.

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I suppose that, if it echoes real history in this aspect, it must have happened along with the practice of private property on land, patriarchy and inheritance. Progression to feudal system would enforce it even more.

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On 24.7.2017 at 3:16 PM, ShadowCat Rivers said:

I suppose that, if it echoes real history in this aspect, it must have happened along with the practice of private property on land, patriarchy and inheritance. Progression to feudal system would enforce it even more.

Mohammedan world has patriarchy, and polygyny. So does Confucian world.

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5 hours ago, Jaak said:

Mohammedan world has patriarchy, and polygyny. So does Confucian world.

I was thinking of the European world, I should have clarified that. I have only superficial knowledge about those two exambles, what was actually the idea about bastards and the laws of inheritance there? In the classical chinese world, is it not that the first son from the first wife inherits all?

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On 26.7.2017 at 5:10 PM, ShadowCat Rivers said:

I was thinking of the European world, I should have clarified that. I have only superficial knowledge about those two exambles, what was actually the idea about bastards and the laws of inheritance there? In the classical chinese world, is it not that the first son from the first wife inherits all?

Well, there were a lot of sons of concubines who inherited.

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