Jump to content

Roose and Ramsay


Livesundersink

Recommended Posts

 

Early in Dance Roose talks to Theon about Ramsay, says he's grown strangely fond of Fat Walda and then goes on to say that Ramsay will kill any sons she bears him and says that it is for the best and that he himself will die before they come of age. Given everything he has done to sieze power and make House Bolton the lords of the north it seems strange to see that he doesn't seem to care about the future of his house, does anyone else think this?.

here is the quote from Dance

 

Lady Walda is a Frey, and she has a fertile feel to her. I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing. If she pops out sons the way she pops in tarts, the Dreadfort will soon be overrun with Boltons. Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Livesundersink said:

Given everything he has done to sieze power and make House Bolton the lords of the north it seems strange to see that he doesn't seem to care about the future of his house

 

I don't think Roose conspired with the Lannisters because he wanted to seize power in the north, but because he believed that Robb didn't stand a chance and wanted to save his own ass. Could be that the wardenship was just a nice extra that came with it. Roose doesn't strike me as someone very ambitious. If he really wanted to secure the future of his house he could have offed Ramsay years ago and fathered more legitimate heirs instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do suspect that Roose said much of what he said to Theon in order to placate Ramsay, as he thinks Theon will immediately tell Ramsay everything his father said. But Roose is so damned inscrutable that I can't get a bead on him. Surely, if he is as intelligent and cunning as we are led to believe, he has to see the writing is on the wall and that he can't hold Winterfell or the wardenship for long with the way things are going, and Ramsay's making it worse. I honestly suspect that Roose is going to flee the coop just as the Battle of Ice goes down, and that Ramsay's gonna be stuck holding the bag while his father pulls a Keyser Soze.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

I do suspect that Roose said much of what he said to Theon in order to placate Ramsay, as he thinks Theon will immediately tell Ramsay everything his father said. But Roose is so damned inscrutable that I can't get a bead on him. Surely, if he is as intelligent and cunning as we are led to believe, he has to see the writing is on the wall and that he can't hold Winterfell or the wardenship for long with the way things are going, and Ramsay's making it worse. I honestly suspect that Roose is going to flee the coop just as the Battle of Ice goes down, and that Ramsay's gonna be stuck holding the bag while his father pulls a Keyser Soze.

Sounds right.

With a jar of white leeches in his baggage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read Roose as a ruthless man.  He's got some heebee jeebee about him, too.    The leeches and whisper voice are enough to creep me out without extraneous dialogue.   But I think it's a valid point that Roose intends for Theon to repeat what he's said.   Now whether this is to placate Ramsay, scare Theon or plant a seed in Ramsay's heart I cannot say.   Could be all 3 with this guy.   He is cunning and thinks ahead.  He plays strategy to his strengths across the board.  Roose knows he's got to get Ramsay in check and on board somehow.  Ramsay obviously doesn't listen to him, so this is a real problem for old Roose.   The players presently in Winterfell seem to have multiple agendas.  There is murder and mayhem.  There is distrust and deceit in every heart.  Roose is no different and I think he's the cause of so much dissention in Winterfell if not the entire North.   He underestimates Stannis.  He just sent what I thought was 2 of his larger forces out of the castle.   I believe Ramsay and his drop out deviant malcontents are right behind them.  That leaves a wounded Manderly without Freys to agitate and Lady Dustin to finally show her cards and what side she's on.  Someone has to deal with Mance and the spearwives as well as a serial killer or killers.  Winter storms are falling and food will be very scarce very soon.  Other than symbolically I can't imagine what Stannis wants Winterfell for.   I can't see his desire to woo Jon back home in this.  Who will Stannis install at Winterfell?  Will Manderly have an opportunity to tell Stannis what's on the back burner with Davos? 

On the subject off the subject, where would Roose go if he went on the run?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is all very strange, but I think there is some weight to the theory that Roose is manipulating Ramsay through Theon. There are a number of things about Roose that still don't make sense to me: Theon is a valuable hostage (even if Balon didn't care about him, the Harlaws probably do) yet he more or less let Ramsay have his way with him, and as Barbrey points out, Ramsay's mistreatment of Jeyne will only help turn the other lords against the Boltons. It all seems extremely careless for a man as meticulous as Roose Bolton. Perhaps he's hoping that Ramsay will flay himself to an early grave and allow Roose to be rid of him?

It could also be a bit like how Tywin was with Jaime. Roose may have put all his hopes and dreams on Domeric, and then when he died Roose saw no point in projecting those hopes onto someone else.

Like others have pointed out, Roose does seem to be primarily focused on saving his own skin. I don't think it's possible for him to do that anymore at this point, but I'm sure he's desperately looking for a way to try. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It is all very strange, but I think there is some weight to the theory that Roose is manipulating Ramsay through Theon. There are a number of things about Roose that still don't make sense to me: Theon is a valuable hostage (even if Balon didn't care about him, the Harlaws probably do) yet he more or less let Ramsay have his way with him, and as Barbrey points out, Ramsay's mistreatment of Jeyne will only help turn the other lords against the Boltons. It all seems extremely careless for a man as meticulous as Roose Bolton. Perhaps he's hoping that Ramsay will flay himself to an early grave and allow Roose to be rid of him?

It could also be a bit like how Tywin was with Jaime. Roose may have put all his hopes and dreams on Domeric, and then when he died Roose saw no point in projecting those hopes onto someone else.

Like others have pointed out, Roose does seem to be primarily focused on saving his own skin. I don't think it's possible for him to do that anymore at this point, but I'm sure he's desperately looking for a way to try. 

You know, it's almost as if Roose plants these seeds about Ramsay in hopes someone will just kill him.   But he also seems to enjoy some of Ramsay's notoriety, too.  Here is my son, the psycho.   Oh dear, what is a father to do?  Did you see what he did to the heir to the Iron Islands?  It's a great way to play it with so many enemies in the house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/20/2017 at 6:48 AM, Curled Finger said:
Spoiler

I read Roose as a ruthless man.  He's got some heebee jeebee about him, too.    The leeches and whisper voice are enough to creep me out without extraneous dialogue.   But I think it's a valid point that Roose intends for Theon to repeat what he's said.   Now whether this is to placate Ramsay, scare Theon or plant a seed in Ramsay's heart I cannot say.   Could be all 3 with this guy.   He is cunning and thinks ahead.  He plays strategy to his strengths across the board.  Roose knows he's got to get Ramsay in check and on board somehow.  Ramsay obviously doesn't listen to him, so this is a real problem for old Roose.   The players presently in Winterfell seem to have multiple agendas.  There is murder and mayhem.  There is distrust and deceit in every heart.  Roose is no different and I think he's the cause of so much dissention in Winterfell if not the entire North.   He underestimates Stannis.  He just sent what I thought was 2 of his larger forces out of the castle.   I believe Ramsay and his drop out deviant malcontents are right behind them.  That leaves a wounded Manderly without Freys to agitate and Lady Dustin to finally show her cards and what side she's on.  Someone has to deal with Mance and the spearwives as well as a serial killer or killers.  Winter storms are falling and food will be very scarce very soon.  Other than symbolically I can't imagine what Stannis wants Winterfell for.   I can't see his desire to woo Jon back home in this.  Who will Stannis install at Winterfell?  Will Manderly have an opportunity to tell Stannis what's on the back burner with Davos? 

On the subject off the subject, where would Roose go if he went on the run?

 

1 hour ago, Lord Wraith said:

Back to the Dreadfort likely. 

Dreadfort is a possibilty, yes.

Asshai? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roose is right. The Boltons barely have any control over the North and things will get worse in time as CR hostages will grow old and die. There's no way that some kid whose got the blood of two Kingslayers will be able to hold the North for long. Ramsey is a savage and fear is the only thing that can keep the Northerners in line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Unlike Tywin, I don't think Roose cares what happens to his house after he's gone. If he did he would've figured out a way to get rid of Ramsay awhile a go. 

Or maybe he acknowledges that thousands of years under the Starks which ended with a betrayal won't be forgotten with a simple sorry and some hugs. The Boltons only way to make it work is to have warmonger Lords for 2-3 generations who are able to put everyone in their place. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Roose and Ramsay dynamics is eerily similar to the Sith. "Always two, there are. No more. No less. A Master and an apprentice."  - with the apprentice, one day, trying to destroy the master and take his place. Ramsay trying to off the daddy seems inevitable, and Roose is acutely aware of that. Lord Roose isn't terribly impatient for that day to come, and, I'm pretty confident, plans to be the survivor of that game.

All communication between Roose and Ramsay (or Roose and Theon, which, from Roose's POV, would be the same thing) should be interpreted in that light.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

The Roose and Ramsay dynamics is eerily similar to the Sith. "Always two, there are. No more. No less. A Master and an apprentice."  - with the apprentice, one day, trying to destroy the master and take his place. 

This is quite a good comparison. 

Winner will have to find an apprentice though, or face an extinction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

 

Dreadfort is a possibilty, yes.

Asshai? 

Good place for Roose with his creepy eyes and creepy voice and leeches!  I just imagine he would be among the most wanted in at least the North and supposed he might try to head south for protection.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...