What will happen to Stannis in TWOW?

[TheThreeEyedCow]

What makes Stannis' future so difficult to predict is the impending right hook in the form of 'the Others'. If the Others remain north of the wall for the proceedings then I can see a certain Stannis Baratheon sat cosy in WF. 

Stannis has a few things going for him that should give his doomsayers pause for thought.

The first and most obvious is the Manderly's. Wyman has made it patently clear that he's perfectly happy to goad the Frey's into a fight. Now he's leading (commanding) his army into the Wolfswood practically right behind the Frey's. Why wouldn't he strike? Or, maybe, the Frey's will take the initiative and choose to pick a fight with Manderly instead? We can't say for certain exactly how it'll play out. But we do know that the Manderly's and Freys are no allies. 

Second, the Umbers. Crowfood and his green boys, Whoresbane and his old men. Before getting too far ahead. It's important to make a note of which Umber has what men and where. If we take the Northern Clansmen as an example, we can say that the 'old men' don't expect to survive the winter at all and will likely give their lives. The 'green boys' may be the ones who'll have an intention of surviving or at least make a go of it. 
Crowfood is/was outside of WF. Whoresbane is inside WF.
This means our Umber 'suicide squad' is perfectly positioned to strike as soon as an allied army is ready to infiltrate. This can come in the shape of simply opening a set of gates to all out anarchy on the walls of WF. And with Crowfood immediately outside the gates it's very easy to imagine a lot of communication between both sides of WF walls. Not to mention all the traps that Crowfood and his boys have made. 

 

Spoiler

One of these traps have already taken out Aenys Frey. This is a huge result. Hosteen, a man with fewer wits and a shorter temper is now responsible for the Frey army. In a hard and almost foreign terrain. Stannis names him - Ser Stupid. That's a big clue that Stannis would rather battle him than Aenys.

So, just with the above we can see how the playing field has been leveled by some good ol' fashion treachery. It would be massively naive to expect Roose to not have accounted for some of this. Even so, a lot of damage is being caused to his army and cause. 

Third, Stannis has a nice big carrot on the end of a prickly stick called 'Arya'. Ned's little girl; his precious daughter. The men of the mountain clans and betrayed Northerners are very vocal in their appetite for Bolton blood. So long as he can convince them that Arya really is held at the castle - a big part of his army will see the battle for WF as a worthy cause. 

Fourth, Stannis will be defending and not attacking. This is too sweet. Stannis may not be of the North but his army mostly is. In order to reach Stannis, the Freys need to march with the threat of Manderly attack and Crowfood's traps and the fact that this terrain and climate does not favor the Frey army at all. Napolean and Hitler discovered to their dismay that their powerful armies weltered in the harsh winter. The Frey's will most likely learn the same. 

Fifth,

Spoiler

Theon Greyjoy. The man you need to infiltrate such a castle. And Stannis has him up on his wall like a trophy whimpering and confessing all kinds of details. 

 Sixth,

Spoiler

The Karstark betrayal has been thwarted. Roose no longer has the power to recon Stannis' army and it's movements. 

Seventh,

Asha Greyjoy. For some, she is the rightful heir to the Iron Islands. Her unlikely alliance/cooperation with Stannis may win him her reavers in Torrhen's Square. The IB may be willing to work alongside Stannis. The manner in which Ramsey dealt with the IB in Moat Cailin would serve as a good motivation too. 

Eighth, the terrain. Any portion of the Frey army that does make it to Stannis will find themselves in a blizzard, fighting on top of a frozen lake that's riddled with holes.


With all of the above taken into consideration, it's easy to see how the Battle of Winterfell will be won by the sharpest and stubbornest of the two. Whatever happens it's going to be a lot of fun watching it all unfurl. There's so many points that we can't elaborate on. The previously mentioned 'Others' may have their own devices. There's clearly a lot going on in the background that we simply don't have a POV for. Lord Locke, Mance Raider and his Spearwives. And then there's Davos and his mission for Rickon. And as other posters have commented, there may be some intelligence behind the raging storms?

I think it's reasonable to say that Stannis, if successful, will return his attention north to the wall. I think it's very likely that the winter will become gradually more severe restricting the movements of most characters in the North. He would need to leave someone in charge of WF and that would most likely be one of the Karstarks. The people who reside at WF would be few. The majority will head North with Stannis to face the Long Night on the front line. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

11 hours ago, teej6 said:

Mel does have her own agenda but we also know from her POV that she was one of the most powerful seers in her order. I don't think she's boasting or exaggerating when she has that thought because she also thinks that many before her have been misled by false visions of prophecies. And we know she feels much stronger at the Wall, more than she's ever felt before. She saw something convincing that made her believe that AA was Stannis. The most plausible explanation is that she saw what she saw to get her and Stannis to the North and Jon, who most probably is AA.

A fair point, but she would not be the first person to think more highly of their skills than was reasonable. The Wall containing magic would likely increase the abilities of any practitioner.

I agree that most likely Stannis was a stepping stone to Jon.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:54 PM, Sullen said:

Defeat the Boltons for sure, I do see him burning Shireen as some point too, and he'll no doubt die against Dany.

If he takes the Throne before biting it, no clue, though I don't believe he will.

I don't think that he will burn Shireen , because she is his only heir .

[Stormourne]

I think we should understand where the books are heading in terms of endgame. What role would Stannis serve in the endgame? He is portrayed as being iron, unbending, and would break rather than bend. I can not see him standing aside for another claimant to the throne. He will either die fighting for his crown, or survive and become king. I don't think he will survive the Battle for Winterfell, although I could see him actually winning the war. He might win, and perish as a result, which would endear him to Jon Snow, who could later legitimize Gendry Waters or Edric Storm or both as Baratheons, should Jon become king.

Will Edric survive? Who knows.

[devilish]

On 19/08/2017 at 3:52 PM, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Arguably, Stannis has the real Northmen in the shape of mountain clans and the remains of Robb's and Cassels men. Stannis also has the luxury of commanding men who sound very ready to die.

Roose has dispatched the Freys who are from the Riverlands and are not of the North. The only Northmen he's sent are Manderly's who's allegiance is highly questionable. The reader should be expecting Manderly to turn on the Frey's once they're in the Wolf's Wood. Manderly has already invited death with open arms by serving those bloody pies and openly insulting the Freys. His intention will be to create as much damage as he can with zero intention of self preservation.  Roose can count on his Dreadfort men and it looks like the Rhyswells have thrown in with him but these forces are within WF where they're under constant psychological assault from just outside their own walls. 

Stannis has an army of Southern snowflakes and quarrelsome Mountain clans who hardly give a feck about their Lord Commander and had barely every stormed a fortress before. All they care about is keeping the Ned daughter's safe.

Roose on the other hand is sitting pretty comfortable behind Winterfell's thick walls with the bulk of his army. He just got rid of the Southerners (whose hardly very good in fighting) and the treacherous Manderlys and he's well positioned to endure a long siege. Have you ever heard what sieges in the cold look like to those who aren't used to it? Just read a book or two about Stalingard from a Nazi/Fascist soldier perspective. Spoiler alert: Its ain't pretty 

[TheThreeEyedCow]

5 hours ago, devilish said:

Stannis has an army of Southern snowflakes and quarrelsome Mountain clans who hardly give a feck about their Lord Commander and had barely every stormed a fortress before. All they care about is keeping the Ned daughter's safe.

Roose on the other hand is sitting pretty comfortable behind Winterfell's thick walls with the bulk of his army. He just got rid of the Southerners (whose hardly very good in fighting) and the treacherous Manderlys and he's well positioned to endure a long siege. Have you ever heard what sieges in the cold look like to those who aren't used to it? Just read a book or two about Stalingard from a Nazi/Fascist soldier perspective. Spoiler alert: Its ain't pretty 

I agree about the southren snowflakes. But that's it i'm afraid. The mountain clans are united for so long as they believe Arya is inside WF getting raped daily by Ramsey. 

Roose is anything but comfortable. He's confident in his alliance with Barbery Dustin but has to concede that Ramsey could botch it if he can't control himself. The Frey's were his best shot as they have long term aspirations with their Bolton alliance. But he's sent them out into the snow. He has his Dreadfort men, but as you mention, they're about to undergo a siege. Strange noises from beyond the walls; traps, out in the snow; questionable company.... The real pressure is on the people inside. Stannis has first hand experience. In fact, if there's anyone in the entire North who has the discipline to stubbornly occupy a castle for an extended period of time, it's Stannis. 

You mention storming a castle but as I said in my comment, their will certainly be a ruse. Could be all out anarchy or the opening of a gate....

I don't think Stalingrad is at all similar. The Russians were occupying what was their 'home' turf from invaders who were woefully underprepared. Stannis has the most enduring of all Northmen at his side in the mountain clans. Again, the northmen that Roose has around him are anything but loyal. The notion that they intend to spend the duration of the siege buddying up to Roose is silly. The attack won't embolden the people inside WF as it did for the people of Stalingrad. 

This isn't a scenario to be dealt with in broad strokes. 

[LordImp]

On 8/20/2017 at 0:57 PM, Dawn of Fyre said:

Will Edric survive? Who knows

Don't think Edric survives. But pretty sure Gendry will.

[devilish]

14 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I agree about the southren snowflakes. But that's it i'm afraid. The mountain clans are united for so long as they believe Arya is inside WF getting raped daily by Ramsey. 

Roose is anything but comfortable. He's confident in his alliance with Barbery Dustin but has to concede that Ramsey could botch it if he can't control himself. The Frey's were his best shot as they have long term aspirations with their Bolton alliance. But he's sent them out into the snow. He has his Dreadfort men, but as you mention, they're about to undergo a siege. Strange noises from beyond the walls; traps, out in the snow; questionable company.... The real pressure is on the people inside. Stannis has first hand experience. In fact, if there's anyone in the entire North who has the discipline to stubbornly occupy a castle for an extended period of time, it's Stannis. 

You mention storming a castle but as I said in my comment, their will certainly be a ruse. Could be all out anarchy or the opening of a gate....

I don't think Stalingrad is at all similar. The Russians were occupying what was their 'home' turf from invaders who were woefully underprepared. Stannis has the most enduring of all Northmen at his side in the mountain clans. Again, the northmen that Roose has around him are anything but loyal. The notion that they intend to spend the duration of the siege buddying up to Roose is silly. The attack won't embolden the people inside WF as it did for the people of Stalingrad. 

This isn't a scenario to be dealt with in broad strokes. 

The mountain clans are described as tough people with crappy weaponary and armour. They are considered extremely quarrelsome and independent. Its common for their feuds to end up in Stark courts + according to Roose they still preserve the right of first night. That suggest that not even 'the Ned' had full control over these lads.

Currently they are busy laughing at the Southern soldier who are shivering at what is considered to the Northerners as a breeze.  The Northerners has a poor opinion of the Southerners and honestly I cant see anything that suggest that the Mountain clans are any different. That opinion will probably nosedive once they reach Winterfell. That fortress is bad ass and can hold a siege. A siege in the middle of a winter storm is no trip at park and the Southerners will struggle with it.

Which makes me wonder. How long will it take before the Mountain clans decide that actually they don't want Stannis and his southern ladies at all? Lets face it, Stannis is not very lovable. FFS neither Renly nor Robert could learn how to love the man. Burning stuff is hardly compatible to the Northern religion either + the Northerners are in no mood to go back at the wrong side of Moat Cailin. 

Then there's the Manderlys wildcard. The Manderlys are fiercely loyal to the Starks but they still have Southern blood in them. They wont do anything without taking anything out of it. Hence why Wyman had promised to bend the knee only if Rickon arrives at white harbor. That is kind of stupid considering that Wyman is in Winterfell. How can he bend the knee to Stannis when he's locked there?

We also know that Manderlys are building a fleet. Why would they possibly do that? Maybe they are planning to bring to the North a powerful army whose region is hardly renowned for its fleet (ie the Vale)? Lets face it, the Vale cant take on Moat Cailin. So they need ships and a safe port to land. If LF is serious in invading the North for Sansa then he needs the Manderlys. 

So lets say Rickon does manage to make it to White harbor. What would stop the Manderlys from having Davos killed? The Manderlys can then marry Rickon to one of their daughters and hide the boy for enough time for  the Vale to send their army to White harbor (thinking that their Sansa will be Lady of Winterfell). Once Sansa is in the North, the Manderlys can send ravens to the Northern bannermen to unite against Roose. The Vale + the Manderlys are just too powerful for Roose and Winterfell will eventually fall.  Once the knights of the Vale secure Winterfell the Manderlys can bring forward Rickon. The boy is ahead of Sansa in the pecking order, which means he will steal her shine, the lordship and any influence the Vale/LF were aiming to get in the North

Which makes you wonder. How would the Mountain clans react to that. Would they be loyal to the Stannis or would they join 'the Sansa' and later on 'the Rickon'?

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, devilish said:

The mountain clans are described as tough people with crappy weaponary and armour. They are considered extremely quarrelsome and independent. Its common for their feuds to end up in Stark courts + according to Roose they still preserve the right of first night. That suggest that not even 'the Ned' had full control over these lads.

Currently they are busy laughing at the Southern soldier who are shivering at what is considered to the Northerners as a breeze.  The Northerners has a poor opinion of the Southerners and honestly I cant see anything that suggest that the Mountain clans are any different. That opinion will probably nosedive once they reach Winterfell. That fortress is bad ass and can hold a siege. A siege in the middle of a winter storm is no trip at park and the Southerners will struggle with it.

Which makes me wonder. How long will it take before the Mountain clans decide that actually they don't want Stannis and his southern ladies at all? Lets face it, Stannis is not very lovable. FFS neither Renly nor Robert could learn how to love the man. Burning stuff is hardly compatible to the Northern religion either + the Northerners are in no mood to go back at the wrong side of Moat Cailin. 

Then there's the Manderlys wildcard. The Manderlys are fiercely loyal to the Starks but they still have Southern blood in them. They wont do anything without taking anything out of it. Hence why Wyman had promised to bend the knee only if Rickon arrives at white harbor. That is kind of stupid considering that Wyman is in Winterfell. How can he bend the knee to Stannis when he's locked there?

We also know that Manderlys are building a fleet. Why would they possibly do that? Maybe they are planning to bring to the North a powerful army whose region is hardly renowned for its fleet (ie the Vale)? Lets face it, the Vale cant take on Moat Cailin. So they need ships and a safe port to land. If LF is serious in invading the North for Sansa then he needs the Manderlys. 

So lets say Rickon does manage to make it to White harbor. What would stop the Manderlys from having Davos killed? The Manderlys can then marry Rickon to one of their daughters and hide the boy for enough time for  the Vale to send their army to White harbor (thinking that their Sansa will be Lady of Winterfell). Once Sansa is in the North, the Manderlys can send ravens to the Northern bannermen to unite against Roose. The Vale + the Manderlys are just too powerful for Roose and Winterfell will eventually fall.  Once the knights of the Vale secure Winterfell the Manderlys can bring forward Rickon. The boy is ahead of Sansa in the pecking order, which means he will steal her shine, the lordship and any influence the Vale/LF were aiming to get in the North

Which makes you wonder. How would the Mountain clans react to that. Would they be loyal to the Stannis or would they join 'the Sansa' and later on 'the Rickon'?

You describe the Mountain Clans well. They would not desert Stannis or return to their Mountains in winter, though. A few would probably try to continue rebuilding Winterfell and Wintertown, and the rest will march, and fight, or die rather than live as another mouth to feed in winter. 

Manderly, as you suggest, is the key. If Davos returns with Rickon, Manderly will keep his word and declare for Stannis. And yes, I expect he will wed his granddaughter to Rickon and take the boy as his ward.

I am not aware of any suggestion in the text to suggest that Manderly is coordinating with anyone in the Vale. Unless Manderly is watching HBO's GOT, why would he expect the knights of the Vale to march on Winterfell? 

[Ivan33]

I don't think manderly is all that loyal, in fact i think he's just power grabbing after his son was killed and is using his show of loyalty,sure he hates freys but i don't bellieve he loves the starks.

[devilish]

36 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You describe the Mountain Clans well. They would not desert Stannis or return to their Mountains in winter, though. A few would probably try to continue rebuilding Winterfell and Wintertown, and the rest will march, and fight, or die rather than live as another mouth to feed in winter. 

Manderly, as you suggest, is the key. If Davos returns with Rickon, Manderly will keep his word and declare for Stannis. And yes, I expect he will wed his granddaughter to Rickon and take the boy as his ward.

I am not aware of any suggestion in the text to suggest that Manderly is coordinating with anyone in the Vale. Unless Manderly is watching HBO's GOT, why would he expect the knights of the Vale to march on Winterfell? 

I think that the relationship between the Mountain Clan and Stannis is...complicated. The former doesn't see him as their Lord let alone king.  All they care about is saving the Ned's daughter and are therefore ready to work with Stannis to achieve that . Meanwhile Stannis is obsessed with a rigid heirarchy. If the Mountain clans see the Southern ladies as a burden then they will abandon them. If Stannis pisses them off then they will probably dig a big axe in his forehead. If Farya or Rickon or Sansa orders them to do that then they will do it without a moment hesitation.

The Manderlys are loyal to the Starks. However, the fact that they are Southerners allow them to see things differently. Unlike the Northerners the Manderlys know better. The Lannisters and the Tyrells are not ironborn/wildlings with a different hair colour. They are insanely powerful houses who can raise an army which is way bigger then what the North can master. Going South with Stannis would be suicide and Wyman has lost enough family to risk that again, especially for some Southern king no one really like.Which means that somewhere along the line the Manderlys will make sure that their family ends up on top (marrying the youngest of the Starks?) and Stannis will ends up screwed. 

 

 

 

 

[devilish]

23 minutes ago, Ivan33 said:

I don't think manderly is all that loyal, in fact i think he's just power grabbing after his son was killed and is using his show of loyalty,sure he hates freys but i don't bellieve he loves the starks.

I think its somewhere in the middle. Wyman is loyal to the Starks however he's also loyal to his house. He will make sure he'll end up becoming the king maker + that the North won't go South ever again (At least not beyond the twins)

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 minutes ago, devilish said:

I think that the relationship between the Mountain Clan and Stannis is...complicated. The former doesn't see him as their Lord let alone king.  All they care about is saving the Ned's daughter and are therefore ready to work with Stannis to achieve that . Meanwhile Stannis is obsessed with a rigid heirarchy. If the Mountain clans see the Southern ladies as a burden then they will abandon them. If Stannis pisses them off then they will probably dig a big axe in his forehead. If Farya or Rickon or Sansa orders them to do that then they will do it without a moment hesitation.

The Manderlys are loyal to the Starks. However, the fact that they are Southerners allow them to see things differently. Unlike the Northerners the Manderlys know better. The Lannisters and the Tyrells are not ironborn/wildlings with a different hair colour. They are insanely powerful houses who can raise an army which is way bigger then what the North can master. Going South with Stannis would be suicide and Wyman has lost enough family to risk that again, especially for some Southern king no one really like.Which means that somewhere along the line the Manderlys will make sure that their family ends up on top (marrying the youngest of the Starks?) and Stannis will ends up screwed.

The presumed Arya, Jenyne Poole, is on her way to the Wall. Rickon is either lost, dead, or in the power of Davos and/or House Manderly. Sansa is living in disguise in the Vale. None of them would order the Mountain Clans to abandon Stannis, as long as Manderly backs Stannis. You say marching south is suicide, but remaining alone in the North in Winter, with the Others bearing down on the Wall, doesn't sound much safer to me. 

[devilish]

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The presumed Arya, Jenyne Poole, is on her way to the Wall. Rickon is either lost, dead, or in the power of Davos and/or House Manderly. Sansa is living in disguise in the Vale. None of them would order the Mountain Clans to abandon Stannis, as long as Manderly backs Stannis. You say marching south is suicide, but remaining alone in the North in Winter, with the Others bearing down on the Wall, doesn't sound much safer to me. 

Lets say that the Mountain clans does manage to storm Winterfell and kill Roose. What happens next? Would they march South with Stannis with their 3k army to win the IT for him? And what happens if Farya/Arya/Sansa/Bran/Rickon appear and orders them to arrest Stannis? Will they obey Stannis or would they opt for the Farya/Arya/Sansa/Bran/Rickon orders? Will Stannis even dare raising one finger against a Stark right in the middle of the domain?

The Mountain clans cant care less of Stannis, his claim, his red priestess, his scarred kid, his barren wife, the few remaining Southron Snowflakes with him or the onion knight. Winter is coming and the South brings only misery. They have more of a chance of saving the North if every single soldier in the North, remains in the North and fights for the North. If Lord Manderly can control Rickon then he might convince them marching South to settle scores with the Freys neighbours but that is it. All those who brought misery to the North ( Balon, Roose, Ramsey, Theon, Joffrey, Asha and Tywin) are either dead or at arm's length to them

So will the North go solo? Well I don't think so. Greatjon Umber is an oaf but sometimes even oafs can say something wise ones in their lives

"Why shouldn't we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead! There sits the only king I mean to bow my knee to, m'lords. The King in the North!"

If Danny happens to slumber North then I can see the North bending the knee to her especially if she offers dragon fire in exchange for her support. 

 

 

 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

Lets say that the Mountain clans does manage to storm Winterfell and kill Roose. What happens next? Would they march South with Stannis with their 3k army to win the IT for him? And what happens if Farya/Arya/Sansa/Bran/Rickon appear and orders them to arrest Stannis? Will they obey Stannis or would they opt for the Farya/Arya/Sansa/Bran/Rickon orders? Will Stannis even dare raising one finger against a Stark right in the middle of the domain?

The Mountain clans cant care less of Stannis, his claim, his red priestess, his scarred kid, his barren wife, the few remaining Southron Snowflakes with him or the onion knight. Winter is coming and the South brings only misery. They have more of a chance of saving the North if every single soldier in the North, remains in the North and fights for the North. If Lord Manderly can control Rickon then he might convince them marching South to settle scores with the Freys neighbours but that is it. All those who brought misery to the North ( Balon, Roose, Ramsey, Theon, Joffrey, Asha and Tywin) are either dead or at arm's length to them

So will the North go solo? Well I don't think so. Greatjon Umber is an oaf but sometimes even oafs can say something wise ones in their lives

"Why shouldn't we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead! There sits the only king I mean to bow my knee to, m'lords. The King in the North!"

If Danny happens to slumber North then I can see the North bending the knee to her especially if she offers dragon fire in exchange for her support. 

There is precedent (foreshadowing?) for northmen to march south in winter to set wrongs to right, seek plunder and adventure, and save their families from mouths to feed, since Creegan Stark led such an army to settle the Dance of the Dragons. But that was a Northman and a Stark. That's why Manderly, with Rickon--or maybe Jon, is the key. 

[LordImp]

11 hours ago, devilish said:

The mountain clans are described as tough people with crappy weaponary and armour. They are considered extremely quarrelsome and independent. Its common for their feuds to end up in Stark courts + according to Roose they still preserve the right of first night. That suggest that not even 'the Ned' had full control over these lads.

Currently they are busy laughing at the Southern soldier who are shivering at what is considered to the Northerners as a breeze.  The Northerners has a poor opinion of the Southerners and honestly I cant see anything that suggest that the Mountain clans are any different. That opinion will probably nosedive once they reach Winterfell. That fortress is bad ass and can hold a siege. A siege in the middle of a winter storm is no trip at park and the Southerners will struggle with it.

Which makes me wonder. How long will it take before the Mountain clans decide that actually they don't want Stannis and his southern ladies at all? Lets face it, Stannis is not very lovable. FFS neither Renly nor Robert could learn how to love the man. Burning stuff is hardly compatible to the Northern religion either + the Northerners are in no mood to go back at the wrong side of Moat Cailin. 

Then there's the Manderlys wildcard. The Manderlys are fiercely loyal to the Starks but they still have Southern blood in them. They wont do anything without taking anything out of it. Hence why Wyman had promised to bend the knee only if Rickon arrives at white harbor. That is kind of stupid considering that Wyman is in Winterfell. How can he bend the knee to Stannis when he's locked there?

We also know that Manderlys are building a fleet. Why would they possibly do that? Maybe they are planning to bring to the North a powerful army whose region is hardly renowned for its fleet (ie the Vale)? Lets face it, the Vale cant take on Moat Cailin. So they need ships and a safe port to land. If LF is serious in invading the North for Sansa then he needs the Manderlys. 

So lets say Rickon does manage to make it to White harbor. What would stop the Manderlys from having Davos killed? The Manderlys can then marry Rickon to one of their daughters and hide the boy for enough time for  the Vale to send their army to White harbor (thinking that their Sansa will be Lady of Winterfell). Once Sansa is in the North, the Manderlys can send ravens to the Northern bannermen to unite against Roose. The Vale + the Manderlys are just too powerful for Roose and Winterfell will eventually fall.  Once the knights of the Vale secure Winterfell the Manderlys can bring forward Rickon. The boy is ahead of Sansa in the pecking order, which means he will steal her shine, the lordship and any influence the Vale/LF were aiming to get in the North

Which makes you wonder. How would the Mountain clans react to that. Would they be loyal to the Stannis or would they join 'the Sansa' and later on 'the Rickon'?

Isn't there a Arryn fleet at Gulltown? Don't know how big it is , but it could work as a transportation North.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

6 hours ago, devilish said:

 

 

the few remaining Southron Snowflakes with him or the onion knight

 

Those southron snowflakes are probably westeros more experienced and skilled warriors.

 

They dont have the gear for the winter, thats all. But they are definitly better warriors than any of the clans.

Stannis last men are mostly knights. Those men managed to retreat alive from blackwaters mayhem. They were fierce enough to remain loyal to a losing king.

Then they did a long march from east watch to castle back  after a long trip by sea from storms end.

They crashed the wilding army, several times their numbers, in their turf. Stannis knights didnt hesitate against magical stuff as giants or skin changers.

And then they marched in the north in bad weather conditions, but managed to give their best in deepwood molte.

 

They are the 1k survivors of Stannis original 30k. Their journey is epic and they deserve respect.

 

 

 

 

[Gendarrion]

Wins battle against bolton, take winterfell somehow, joined by davos and 20k men hired by Massey, before marching south.

Shireen burned by melisandre without his knowledge to resurrect Jon.

[devilish]

9 hours ago, LordImp said:

Isn't there a Arryn fleet at Gulltown? Don't know how big it is , but it could work as a transportation North.

No one knows how many ships the Vale has. However they don't give the impression to be a naval powerhouse

[devilish]

8 hours ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

Those southron snowflakes are probably westeros more experienced and skilled warriors.

 

They dont have the gear for the winter, thats all. But they are definitly better warriors than any of the clans.

Stannis last men are mostly knights. Those men managed to retreat alive from blackwaters mayhem. They were fierce enough to remain loyal to a losing king.

Then they did a long march from east watch to castle back  after a long trip by sea from storms end.

They crashed the wilding army, several times their numbers, in their turf. Stannis knights didnt hesitate against magical stuff as giants or skin changers.

And then they marched in the north in bad weather conditions, but managed to give their best in deepwood molte.

 

They are the 1k survivors of Stannis original 30k. Their journey is epic and they deserve respect.

 

 

 

 

True. But I am seeing things from the Mountain clan perspective not from my perspective. The Northerners tend to have a very poor opinion of foreigners (manly because they only fight wildlings and IB who are crap soldiers). The fact that Stannis men are shivering to what the Mountain clans see as a breeze doesn't help