Traverys Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I was curious to see if anyone has every read any of the series. I'll say that the first three novels (Luck in the Shadows, Stalking Darkness, and Traitor's Moon) are gold, by my standard. They kinda rocked my world. The books after that weren't as great to me, but I still have yet to read the last one. Anyways, the series fit the bill of what I was looking for in my early undergrad days. I'm gay, and I have never read a more nauseating genre than gay fiction. I come across this series and it has two main characters that aren't entirely "straight," but it doesn't spend a whole lot of time exploring that. It is what it is. They go on epic fantasy journeys and every now and then we're reminded that they may be a minority when it comes to sexuality. But that's about it until you get to book three and beyond. Mostly curious if any heterosexual brothers and sisters have read any of the series and if they ultimately liked or disliked it. EDIT: Erm.... If someone also just wants to talk about the series that'd be great too. I just thought I would lead with the elephant in the room. I haven't read The Bone Doll trilogy by the same author yet, but she's kind of a Fantasy badass to me. She tackles sexuality and gender studies in an epic fantasy setting while keeping the primary focus on the journey and action. I like her "it is what it is" approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I'm a hetero male and I loved the first three way back when I read them(when they first came out). Haven't gotten to the new ones yet, though they're sitting here on the giant pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Patrek Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I read the first two or three when they originally came out and I enjoyed them, heterosexual guy that I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traverys Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Haha thanks for the replies. I look back at my wording and think "wow, could have asked these questions better..." I think what I was getting at was if having bisexual main characters (that aren't women) was offputting to readers (of any background or identity). 3 hours ago, Lord Patrek said: I read the first two or three when they originally came out and I enjoyed them, heterosexual guy that I am! I'd recommend the third book if you haven't read it yet! It takes place on Seregil's home continent, Aurënen (which he has been banished from for a few decades or so). Aurënfaie culture is very... quirky. Quirky in ways that make sense for a people that live for hundreds of years. It's my fav of the series. ::shrug:: It could have ended with that book and I would have been completely content. Again, thanks for the replies @Lord Patrek and @Darth Richard II! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I read these a few years back, and I enjoyed them. It was nice to see fantasy depart from a heteronormative model--and these books were published back in the 90s! I recall that my favorite was #4, although I can't remember the name of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Ah I did read up to three. Hmm maybe I'll read book 4 this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Haha I'm poking through my old paperbacks and they have blurbs from Orson Scott Card. In fact he burbled a lot of stuff that I'm 100 percent certain he didn't read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarius+ Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Yeah, I've read these. Most of em, anyway. They aren't bad, but to me they were pretty crudely written. They do have a devoted following, however. If you want some good fantasy with gay MCs, try Carole Cummings. I love the way she writes. She does have a very strong voice, though, and her style will probably not be for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On 6/17/2017 at 9:06 PM, Traverys said: I haven't read The Bone Doll trilogy by the same author yet, but she's kind of a Fantasy badass to me. She tackles sexuality and gender studies in an epic fantasy setting while keeping the primary focus on the journey and action. I like her "it is what it is" approach. I've read the Bone Doll's Twin (Tamir trilogy) and really, really loved the premise. I didn't realize that her other series tackled sexuality/gender as well and that it might be a theme for her. I haven't read anything else from her as I was a bit disappointed with the ending of the trilogy. It wasn't bad, it just was rather predictable when compared to the standard she set with the first book. The first book, however, is wonderful and one of my favorites on it's own. I didn't really pigeonhole it as a commentary on gender identity, so I imagine it would fit your description of 'it is what it is'. I mean, the gender thing is the premise, of course, but it was treated like a thing that happened and this is how it's dealt with. It's been a while since I read it and I might read it through a different lens now and get more out of it, but I just remember it as being a really intriguing premise and story. Even though the trilogy didn't entirely stick the landing, I'd recommend the first book to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liver and Onions Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 It's been a few years, but I read at least the first three books, possibly more. They were pretty good and felt accessible to a young adult audience- the prose wasn't too dense and I don't remember a lot of visceral violence. (But it's been a while, I could be misremembering.) I actually picked up the books because they dealt with gender issues and bisexuality (I'm straight, more or less but I like books that challenge heteronormativity). I do like the way these books dealt with gender and sexuality issues without whacking the reader over the head with them, making it feel like a genuine story and not a think piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traverys Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/21/2017 at 9:00 PM, Darth Richard II said: Haha I'm poking through my old paperbacks and they have blurbs from Orson Scott Card. In fact he burbled a lot of stuff that I'm 100 percent certain he didn't read. Oh gosh, the irony of him giving a positive blurb to this or the Tamir Triad... Another reason for him to stick his foot in his mouth. I read Ender's Game a couple of years ago and thought it was great... but I can't bring myself to read anything else by him after learning more about his very outspoken views on things... Perhaps that's extremely prejudiced of me, and I'll own up to that. He's the face I picture when I think about how to combat the norm that science fiction/fantasy is for heterosexual white men. On 6/25/2017 at 3:21 PM, Contrarius+ said: Yeah, I've read these. Most of em, anyway. They aren't bad, but to me they were pretty crudely written. They do have a devoted following, however. If you want some good fantasy with gay MCs, try Carole Cummings. I love the way she writes. She does have a very strong voice, though, and her style will probably not be for everyone. Yeah, I'll agree that they aren't the most well-written out there. I think it's fair to say they are a good starting point for more inclusive fantasy in the future, among other underrepresented populations. I'll have to Carole Cummings a look. Any particular book strike you as superior to the others? It's not really just fiction that breaks away from the hetero-only casting that catches my interest, but ones that treat it more than a story of identity or romance. I have yet to read a book where a main character spends the entire story exploring all the facets of his heterosexuality (though wouldn't be surprised if it existed), but fiction the features a main character that isn't straight tends to beat you over the head with it. I guess when I found the series I was actively looking for something that portrayed sexual minorities with a sense of... normalcy. It's why I couldn't get into the Last Herald-Mage trilogy by Mercedes Lackey... though, frankly, I can't get into most Mercedes Lackey. On 6/26/2017 at 10:40 PM, Gertrude said: I've read the Bone Doll's Twin (Tamir trilogy) and really, really loved the premise. I didn't realize that her other series tackled sexuality/gender as well and that it might be a theme for her. I haven't read anything else from her as I was a bit disappointed with the ending of the trilogy. It wasn't bad, it just was rather predictable when compared to the standard she set with the first book. The first book, however, is wonderful and one of my favorites on it's own. I didn't really pigeonhole it as a commentary on gender identity, so I imagine it would fit your description of 'it is what it is'. I mean, the gender thing is the premise, of course, but it was treated like a thing that happened and this is how it's dealt with. It's been a while since I read it and I might read it through a different lens now and get more out of it, but I just remember it as being a really intriguing premise and story. Even though the trilogy didn't entirely stick the landing, I'd recommend the first book to everyone. I'll have to give them a read sometime. It's interesting to me she has focused a lot on gender identity/sexual orientation themes in her writing. Her wiki page states her works have received academic attention, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly for the Tamir Triad. I imagine it's a fascinating read for those that study gender identity and feminism. I think I haven't read them because even though the main character goes from male to female, Skala (at least in the Nightruner Series) is a great place to live if you're a woman. Ruled by Queens, equal employment opportunities, can hold money/land/titles in their own name and right, ownership of their own sexuality, etc. Perhaps it wasn't always this way though? Anyways, Lynn Flewelling seems like she would be a fascinating person to sit down and have a chat with, to be honest. 21 hours ago, Liver and Onions said: It's been a few years, but I read at least the first three books, possibly more. They were pretty good and felt accessible to a young adult audience- the prose wasn't too dense and I don't remember a lot of visceral violence. (But it's been a while, I could be misremembering.) I actually picked up the books because they dealt with gender issues and bisexuality (I'm straight, more or less but I like books that challenge heteronormativity). I do like the way these books dealt with gender and sexuality issues without whacking the reader over the head with them, making it feel like a genuine story and not a think piece. Agreed! And I think you're spot on regarding how stories become less genuine when they focus too hard on these topics. You can't really see a character as a whole person when you only really focus on something that is perhaps 10% or less (i.e., their gender identity or sexuality in general) of what makes them who they are. It ties back to a common writer's tip: show your audience, don't just tell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Yeah you aren't missing much with OSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarius+ Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 18 hours ago, Traverys said: Oh gosh, the irony of him giving a positive blurb to this or the Tamir Triad... Another reason for him to stick his foot in his mouth. I read Ender's Game a couple of years ago and thought it was great... but I can't bring myself to read anything else by him after learning more about his very outspoken views on things... Perhaps that's extremely prejudiced of me, and I'll own up to that. He's the face I picture when I think about how to combat the norm that science fiction/fantasy is for heterosexual white men. The main problem with OSC's actual writing in terms of LGBT characters is that they're never allowed to have a "happy ending" unless they choose to either remain celibate or "go straight". He has several sympathetic gay characters scattered through his books, but he never lets them lead a happy gay life, and exploring their sexuality spells doom (see, for instance, Songmaster). 18 hours ago, Traverys said: I'll have to Carole Cummings a look. Any particular book strike you as superior to the others? I like both her Wolf's-Own books and her Aisling books, as well as her standalone Blue on Black. Keep in mind, though, that she does come from the mm romance field. I think she does both the fantasy and prose much better than most mm romance writers, but there is a definite romance aspect in all her books. Definitely not an "erotic" romance writer, though -- there's little to no actual on-page sex, if that should happen to concern you. eta -- come to think of it, there's actually no romance in the first Aisling book. The romance aspect of the story doesn't start til book 2. So if you wanted to start getting an idea of her writing as separate from romance concerns, that might be a place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Yeah you should look up Hamlet's Father... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarius+ Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 7 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Yeah you should look up Hamlet's Father... I've read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Oh, I'm so sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarius+ Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 LOL. I took one for the team. In fact, I read it a few years ago because of a big battle we were having here on this board -- back when I was regular old Contrarius and not + . I survived! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I read them a looong time ago, and thought they were decent. I read the bone doll trilogy as well, and thought the first two were brilliant, but terribly let down by the third book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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