Graydon Hicks

what robb could have done better?

131 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Aegon1FanBoy said:

But he did do as he was told he held riverrun but i do agree the fool wanted glory in combat much like every westerosi lord

and look at the reputations of hoster and brynden from their youths. then heres edmure, acting regent for his bed ridden father, being told to sit tight while others go off and fight. that must have unmanned him a lot in his own eyes.

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1 hour ago, Graydon Hicks said:

and look at the reputations of hoster and brynden from their youths. then heres edmure, acting regent for his bed ridden father, being told to sit tight while others go off and fight. that must have unmanned him a lot in his own eyes.

Reputations. Do tell us about Hoster

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i read a few things, i believe from the world book, but i might be mixing things up, that indicate that hoster was reputed to have some history as a commander. as he is of the same generation as tywin, he might have been part of the fighting in the war of the ninepenny kings. thats where brynden tully got his reputation, alongside tywin and barristan.

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16 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

i read a few things, i believe from the world book, but i might be mixing things up, that indicate that hoster was reputed to have some history as a commander. as he is of the same generation as tywin, he might have been part of the fighting in the war of the ninepenny kings. thats where brynden tully got his reputation, alongside tywin and barristan.

By all means, a summary of said things is appreciated. I've read all of those. Hoster rode around a lot in the RL and fought in the Ninepenny kings war as either a knight or a squire* but no evidence with him as a commander

*older than Ser Tywin but otherwise no indication

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ok then, i may be wrong, but he still holds a rep as a strong LP, and uncle brynden definitely earned his stripes. still big shadows to cover young, inexperienced, rash edmure tully.

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I look at the differences in the "Hardware" (military assets, strategic position) of Robb to that of Tywin Lannister. The individual decisions ("Software") are in my opinion a consequence of these differences.

  • Purpose:
    • Robb's first target was to save Ned's live. It vanished with Ned's death at KL early in the war. Robb's hold on his army was not strong. He let himself influence by his mother. Setting a new purpose after Ned's death (seeking peace or destroying the Lannisters or saving his sisters) was openly discussed, resulting in Robb accepting to be named King in the North, in order to keep his Northern Lords together. Robb had a loose grip on the Riverland army only. He allowed Edmure to send the Riverland Lords back to protect their lands after the first battle was won (the siege on Riverrun).
    • Tywin's purpose was the same all through the war. His hold on his army undisputed. Influence by his Family: Zero (he ignored Cersei's order to come to KL. Tywin did not let himself influence by his son being prisoner to Robb (no negotiating efforts, no change in military strategy).
    •  
  • Strategic Position:
    • As Tyrion pointed out to Cersei, Harrenhal was well positioned to threaten the Riverlands but to be close enough to come to KL in short time, Looks like an advantage for Tywin Lannister. On the other hand, Robb had the North save (Moat Cailin being held by Northeners). I am not considering the Ironborn at this moment, because neither Tywin nor Robb had this in their calculation.
    • Roose Bolton was well positioned close to Harrenhal (thus a threat to Tywin), but protected by a River and with a possible retreat e.g. to Moat Cailin. 
    • Robb had a huge army in Riverrun, well protected.
    • All in all Robb's strategic position was better than Tywins, I believe, Robb didn't understand that.
    •  
  • In my opinion, as Robb was the attacker, he had to make his moves. I believe Robb did well to split his army and move West. His strategy to pull Tywin in the West was countered by Edmure with the battle of the Fords. Here, Robb should have explained his strategy better to Edmure (as many other useres already said). But on the other hand, I think Robb should have made astronger threat in the West. He should have laid siege to Casterly Rock. Then Tywin would have been forced to come to aid by all means. And Edmure's army would have been able to follow Tywin and take him in the back.

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i wondered why he took the crag, its out of the way, a detour if his goal was casterly rock.

tactics and swords win battles, strategy and logistics win wars. i think that might have been in robbs thinking. if he could cut the supply line tywin had stretched all the way back into the westerlands, then he forces tywin to draw on the thinning resources of KL and the crownlands. tywin pays for his supply out of westerlands, but the crown pays for the supplies out of the crownlnds, and they are running out of money. robb's logistics were relatively secure, even all the way back to the north, not counting on what he was drawing from the riverlands.

if he could cut tywin's logistical chain, then tywin would either starve at harrenhale, or have to retreat to  the westerlands and re-secure the supply route. by the time tywin fell back to KL, the lannsiter were already in talks with the tyrells, which opened a new supply route for the lannister forces. i dont think robb's logistics were ever threatened, not unitl the ironborn took moat cailen. and eventhen, he could still on the resources of the riverlands.

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There is a plethora of things Robb and Cat could of done very differently to improve their situation.

For me, the crux of his downfall was the neutrality of the Vale. 

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On 7/20/2017 at 1:05 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree with all of this. I also think Lysa refrained from aiding Robb because of her long-stewing bitterness towards her sister. In Lysa's eyes, Cat got everything she wanted--Petyr's affection, a marriage to a man her own age, several healthy children, the respect of many of her peers. We see firsthand just how deep Lysa's resentment goes in ASOS when she tries to kill Sansa and sporadically conflates her with her mother. Cat begging her to reconcile with Hoster, the father she loathes for tricking her into an abortion, probably didn't help matters either. So while I do think she was trying to protect her son and herself, I think there was also a much more pernicious motivation for Lysa to refuse Robb's cause laying beneath the

i found this on a thread about what lead to the red wedding. i found it to be very reasonable about why lysa refused to aid robb, and stayed neutral, even with several of her lords arguing in favor of joining the starks.

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

 

i found this on a thread about what lead to the red wedding. i found it to be very reasonable about why lysa refused to aid robb, and stayed neutral, even with several of her lords arguing in favor of joining the starks.

Thanks!

Edited by The Bard of Banefort

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