Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 So it seems that many are saying that the Celts are taking a big chance with this trade, but I don't really see it. They get the guy they want and one of two really juicy picks. (either the Lakers 2018 pick if it falls between 2-5, or the Kings 2019 pick) Seems to me their risk is really mitigated here. The only real X factor is if Fultz turns out to be a perennial All-Star... http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-blockbuster-trade-winners-and-losers-as-boston-sends-no-1-pick-fultz-to-sixers/ And it's looking more and more like the Lakers are going to pass on Ball for Fox. That reaction video is going to be fun to watch. Couldn't happen to a nice douchebag (the father, I mean, not the son) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Oh man if the Lakers pass on Ball it's going to be amazing. As far as the Celtics trade, I saw some people talk about Anthony Davis and I see no way that he is available right now. He's under contract for another four years. Why would New Orleans trade him now? They're a lock to give at least one full season to the Davis/Cousins pairing to see how it works out with a full offseason's training program, and beyond that I just don't see why they'd jettison Davis when they have zero incentive to do so and he is years away from being able to demand out via trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Shit's getting interesting. Paul George has told the Pacers he will not re-sign and it's clear Indiana looking to trade him fast. Cleveland's already reached out. The problem is everyone believes he'll be a Laker next year so that limits what the Pacers can get for a one year rental. And this makes it doubly clear that Cleveland is the only team that really makes sense for him. Celtics are either building for the future or will get Heyward on a multi year contract. Lakers won't trade for a guy they think they can get if they just wait. They're not the Knicks. Can't think of who else will give up longterm assets to be a lot better in 2018. I imagine the Cavs offered Thompson and the Pacers asked for Love and now each waits for the other to cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 7 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: So it seems that many are saying that the Celts are taking a big chance with this trade, but I don't really see it. They get the guy they want and one of two really juicy picks. (either the Lakers 2018 pick if it falls between 2-5, or the Kings 2019 pick) Seems to me their risk is really mitigated here. The only real X factor is if Fultz turns out to be a perennial All-Star... http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-blockbuster-trade-winners-and-losers-as-boston-sends-no-1-pick-fultz-to-sixers/ And it's looking more and more like the Lakers are going to pass on Ball for Fox. That reaction video is going to be fun to watch. Couldn't happen to a nice douchebag (the father, I mean, not the son) Listen, I know that I'm far from an unbiased observer here; but I just don't see how you can watch that tournament game and come away feeling like Ball is the better player. Apparently the Lakers really liked Fultz' workout with them and were prepared to offer Julius Randle to swap picks with Boston; but it's obvious the C's got a sweeter deal from Philly. Most reports say that Ball's workout with the Lakers was not good and looked lazy. You are absolutely right that every camera in the place will be trained on Lavar and the reaction shot will be epic if it is anyone other than Ball. There may be enough cameras from enough angles that they could give us one of those computerized panoramic views like you get at big NFL games so you can spin around and see his face at every angle. Most things I've read say that the Celtics like Jackson at 3. I'm curious if they would be happy taking Ball or Fox if the Lakers made it really look like they were going to take him, or if they might trade with the Lakers after all to go up to 2. Lastly, on George... I know it's his hometown... but I still don't know why any NBA star would go to the Western Conference right now. Seems like if you got one or two guys together you could make a push against the Cavs in the East and have a real shot at the Finals. Stick George on this Lakers team and are they even a six seed within the next three years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rhom said: Listen, I know that I'm far from an unbiased observer here; but I just don't see how you can watch that tournament game and come away feeling like Ball is the better player. Yeah, that's the game everyone keeps coming back to. I think it was made even more obvious by the fact they they often went head to head. Bill Simmons has been talking about this a lot. He apparently spent quite a bit of time watching basketball with Magic a few years back, and he says that Magic is enamored with guys who rise to the competition. He thinks that if Magic has the last word, there's no way the Lakers take Ball. Not sure how the Celts would react to Ball falling to the 3 spot, but I have to imagine they stick with Jackson. If they were convinced that a guard was the way to go, they would've just stuck with Fultz at #1. At this point, it looks like Ball will go to the Suns at #4. It will be fun to see how this shakes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Rhom said: Listen, I know that I'm far from an unbiased observer here; but I just don't see how you can watch that tournament game and come away feeling like Ball is the better player. Yeah I was intrigued by Lonzo up until that game. Not only did Fox destroy him but even more damning, Lonzo seemed to basically give up. Hyper-competitiveness and the burning need to win is pretty much the distinguishing factor among the most talented guys in the NBA. Remember how Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo got taken ahead of Russell Westbrook? How'd that work out? Watching Fox cry after Kentucky's brutal touranment loss while Lonzo was all "well,off to the NBA now" seems like a pretty big deal. Hope he grows up because Ball has the natural gifts to be special in this league. His dad was better than Michael Jordan after all. Fox, meanwhile, feels like he has a high floor in that at worst he can be a high-energy defensive specialist bench guy on a good team. The one big question with him is whether he can learn to shoot. Pretty much can't start a guard in today's NBA who isn't a threat from 3. Just destroys an offense. And Fox shot 24.6% in college. Some guys never get there. But outside of that, love everything else about how Fox carries himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jaime L said: Yeah I was intrigued by Lonzo up until that game. Not only did Fox destroy him but even more damning, Lonzo seemed to basically give up. Hyper-competitiveness and the burning need to win is pretty much the distinguishing factor among the most talented guys in the NBA. Remember how Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo got taken ahead of Russell Westbrook? How'd that work out? Not only that, but in spite of his father trying to blame the white players on the team, Lonzo got torn up defensively in that game. And while Fox is a good prospect, if you are going to be a starting PG in this league, you are going to have to face a bunch of guys with a much more complete offensive game than that. It's easy to say "imagine what Irving, Wall, Curry and Westbrook would do to that guy" about any PG prospect, but in the case of Ball, it is particularly worrisome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Still holding to the thought that Ball will be a bust. I just have never seen where he is a next level NBA player. Now, by bust in mean he will not be a All-Star caliber player. Because, that's what everyone is holding him up to, a franchise changing player. I don't think he is, for various reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 39 minutes ago, Jaime L said: Yeah I was intrigued by Lonzo up until that game. Not only did Fox destroy him but even more damning, Lonzo seemed to basically give up. Hyper-competitiveness and the burning need to win is pretty much the distinguishing factor among the most talented guys in the NBA. Remember how Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo got taken ahead of Russell Westbrook? How'd that work out? Watching Fox cry after Kentucky's brutal touranment loss while Lonzo was all "well,off to the NBA now" seems like a pretty big deal. Hope he grows up because Ball has the natural gifts to be special in this league. His dad was better than Michael Jordan after all. Fox, meanwhile, feels like he has a high floor in that at worst he can be a high-energy defensive specialist bench guy on a good team. The one big question with him is whether he can learn to shoot. Pretty much can't start a guard in today's NBA who isn't a threat from 3. Just destroys an offense. And Fox shot 24.6% in college. Some guys never get there. But outside of that, love everything else about how Fox carries himself. 16 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: Still holding to the thought that Ball will be a bust. I just have never seen where he is a next level NBA player. Now, by bust in mean he will not be a All-Star caliber player. Because, that's what everyone is holding him up to, a franchise changing player. I don't think he is, for various reasons. Fox's shot never fell at a consistent rate. But his form was good. Watching him shoot, I never could quite figure out why it wasn't going in. I feel like that's something that can be fixed with a good shot coach and unlimited time to work on it. Conversely, Ball shot a good percentage from deep but has an awkward side release that I feel like will be a liability in the pro game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 19 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: Still holding to the thought that Ball will be a bust. I just have never seen where he is a next level NBA player. Now, by bust in mean he will not be a All-Star caliber player. Because, that's what everyone is holding him up to, a franchise changing player. I don't think he is, for various reasons. It kind of feels like that is an assessment you could apply to this entire draft. A lot of guys who will be solid starters, but I'm not sure I'm seeing a perennial All-Star in the lot. I think the Celts are taking the right tact here in trading down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: It kind of feels like that is an assessment you could apply to this entire draft. A lot of guys who will be solid starters, but I'm not sure I'm seeing a perennial All-Star in the lot. I think the Celts are taking the right tact here in trading down. Sure, though I think 1 or 2 might develop into something special. Fultz being the most likely. And, I'll agree with @Rhom, that Fox may just have what it takes. He's superfast, great passer and defender and we all seen, as someone mentioned, he got heart. The jumper can develop and he would be a All-Star player. I also think the Celts did the right thing and Philly is headed in right direction. If Cavs land George, they're right there with the Dubs again. Would be the perfect piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: If Cavs land George, their right there with the Dubs again. Would be the perfect piece. I would like to see that as well. Seems like there's some unfinished business between these two teams. I also hope that another superteam or two emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 If the Cavs give up Love to get George, they are improved, but not nearly enough to close the gap with GSW. If they get him for Thompson then they're a lot better, but I'm doubtful the Pacers will take that. Thompson isn't much return for a top 20 player, and it's not like he's on a super cheap deal or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Maithanet said: If the Cavs give up Love to get George, they are improved, but not nearly enough to close the gap with GSW. If they get him for Thompson then they're a lot better, but I'm doubtful the Pacers will take that. Thompson isn't much return for a top 20 player, and it's not like he's on a super cheap deal or anything. It's definitely not going to be enough when the Wizards overwhelm the Pacers with an offer of Kelly Oubre and former Pacers legend Ian Mahimni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jaime L said: It's definitely not going to be enough when the Wizards overwhelm the Pacers with an offer of Kelly Oubre and former Pacers legend Ian Mahimni. Shouldn't we throw in Bogdonovich too? He's been eating up valuable minutes that could otherwise be allocated to whatever random athletic looking guys can be found wandering around the Verizon Center before tipoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 It's good to see the NBA thread getting back to the important shit, like how the Wizards can build around John Wall and Zombie Bradley Beal. You guys were missed during the Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: It's good to see the NBA thread getting back to the important shit, like how the Wizards can build around John Wall and Zombie Bradley Beal. You guys were missed during the Finals. Better than talking about the Lakers, which is all that ESPN wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Better than talking about the Lakers, which is all that ESPN wants to do. Couldn't agree more, except for the Lavar Ball potentially losing his shit on national television angle. That's the only Laker story that matters presently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 50 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Better than talking about the Lakers, which is all that ESPN wants to do. And just to clarify, please don't take this as sarcasm. I'm being completely sincere here. Listening to you and @Jaime L breakdown the Wiz is one of my guilty pleasures here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Maithanet said: If the Cavs give up Love to get George, they are improved, but not nearly enough to close the gap with GSW. If they get him for Thompson then they're a lot better, but I'm doubtful the Pacers will take that. Thompson isn't much return for a top 20 player, and it's not like he's on a super cheap deal or anything. I saw a rumored potential three-way trade that included the Knicks where the Cavs parted with Love, but ended up with George and Melo. That would make them much better. Supposedly the Cavs are also planning to make a run at Bosh if he can find a doctor to clear him. ETA: And I just saw Mark Stein tweet that the Cavs are working on a trade for Butler too (I assume this would be instead of George). Lot of crazy shit going on right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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