NBA Draft 2017: Sixers, Celtics and Will LaVar Ball Lose His Shit on National Television Edition

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 minutes ago, briantw said:

Personally, I don't think there's any chance George would have left the Cavs after a trip to the Finals.

LeBron likely exercising his option after losing another Final? I don't know. I think the thing that hung up any deal to the Celts is that they couldn't get George to commit to more than one year. If that's the case, I don't blame Ainge for not pulling the trigger. Giving up long term pieces like draft picks for a one year rental isn't smart.

[Calibandar]

18 hours ago, sperry said:

Also, is Danny Ainge running the greatest slow play in the history of sports, or has he turned a number 3 pick and a #1 pick into Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, a 2019 pick in the back half of the lottery?

He is missing out left and right, he's gone fromn being a strong contender for both Butler and George to missing out on both. He's also deliberately missed out on what is perceived to be a clear no.1 pick in Fultz; honestly if I were a Celtics fan I'd be really pissed right now, even he manages to sign Hayward.

17 hours ago, briantw said:

Also, do the three best players in the East all play for the Cavs now?  

Almost, and related to that I see Miami leaping to the no. 2 spot if they sign Hayward.

Which in a way would be fun. Hayward with Dragic and Whiteside, and consider that they were really good the second half of the season as well. That's a watchable team.

16 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, is that really an upgrade over Rubio? Seems like they gave him up cheap.

I agree there's reasons to not be that excited about Teague but weighing all things you'd have to consider him a minor upgrade over Rubio. It's clear Tibs has seen enough and wants a major overhaul, and Teague is more dynamic. Apparently they now want Millsap..

13 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Coming late, but:

 

1) Harden was MVP runner up 2 years ago playing off the ball.

2) Paul and Harden might have the 2 highest bbiqs in the league. I agree that at first glance it appears less than ideal, but as smart as those two are I'd bet on their figuring it out.

3 There is a difference between not maximizing talent via fit vs. losing on fit. Even if adding Paul doesn't have Paul and Harden each maximized, when you add one of the best players in the history of the game still in his prime for relatively little, it's a big big big win.

 

The only thing I'd say though is that Houston gave up a ton of players in that trade. 

They are very thin.

10 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

any chance that OKC can bring in another piece and be a genuine contender?

Sam Presti has said he is involved in everything. Hyperbole of course, but they are certainly looking for more to build a contender and convince Westbrook to stay. Rudy Gay is apparently someone they are considering. The problem is, while it is great that the overrated Oladipo is off their books, they still don't have a lot of cap space left. And their roster is pretty bare as it is.

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Even though Ainge keeps getting heat for not landing George, it seems to me the onus for that falls on the Pacers here. Apparently on draft night he offered the Pacers 3 1st round picks for George, yet they settle for Oladipo and Sabonis? Lame.

Yeah but he didn't offer the Nets pick in 2018 and that would have convinced the Pacers. Boston has been playing hardball and lost. Give up that pick and they trade you Paul George. But there's the rental thing of course.

Anyway, when I woke up this morning and saw that PG had been traded to OKC I immediately loved it. Of course you do this if you're OKC. Offload a disappointing and expensive Oladipo and a meaningless piece in Sabonis, for George. Put everything into making him stay beyond one year. If this is a great year for OKC, does he really still want to move to LA so badly? What's there? They just traded Russell for Lopez. They have some very unproven guys and some guys that just don't look great at all ( Ingram, Randle, Nance). IMO they got rid of their best youngster. They are going to be shit again this year, this looks certain. Paul George must be really very homesick to still want to leave that OKC team for LA in 2018.

There is a potential  bummer and that is both Westbrook and George signing with LA next year though. That will be off the table though if Westbook signs that extension in the next few days.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

. Put everything into making him stay beyond one year. If this is a great year for OKC, does he really still want to move to LA so badly? What's there? They just traded Russell for Lopez. They have some very unproven guys and some guys that just don't look great at all ( Ingram, Randle, Nance). IMO they got rid of their best youngster. They are going to be shit again this year, this looks certain. Paul George must be really very homesick to still want to leave that OKC team for LA in 2018.

There is a potential  bummer and that is both Westbrook and George signing with LA next year though. That will be off the table though if Westbook signs that extension in the next few days.

I think this will all likely hinge on what LeBron does after next season. If he decides to go to LA, that will likely be all the incentive George needs to jump ship again. 

[briantw]

13 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

LeBron likely exercising his option after losing another Final? I don't know. I think the thing that hung up any deal to the Celts is that they couldn't get George to commit to more than one year. If that's the case, I don't blame Ainge for not pulling the trigger. Giving up long term pieces like draft picks for a one year rental isn't smart.

No chance LeBron goes West.  None.  Zero.  I didn't think there was a chance before, but it sure as hell isn't happening now.  He's going to retire a Cav and then likely buy an ownership stake in the team after he retires, with the eventual goal to own the majority share.

I also don't think George was going to leave a Cavs team with basically a guaranteed trip to the Finals every year to babysit Lonzo Ball and the rest of the Lakers babies in a division with Golden State.  

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Any chance whatsoever, Cavs could pull off a Gordon Hayward signing? I think he improves the offense, without a doubt. I guess all Cavs can hope for is for the Knicks to buyout Melo, sign him while keeping Love. There is no other way I see them pulling closer to the Dubs without that move. Unless, the can drastically improve their bench. But, I don't see how that happens.

Cavs have definitely lost the off-season so far, lost it badly.

[briantw]

10 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Cavs have definitely lost the off-season so far, lost it badly.

I really don't see this logic.  They're basically the same team as last year, which put forth the best offensive in NBA postseason history.  They're basically a lock for another Finals as well, barring major injuries.  They also have a good shot of getting Melo, Wade, or both when they are inevitably bought out at some point.  

Not to mention the East just lost two of its best players to the West, which means an even easier path to the Finals for the Cavs.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

I really don't see this logic.  They're basically the same team as last year, which put forth the best offensive in NBA postseason history.  They're basically a lock for another Finals as well, barring major injuries.  They also have a good shot of getting Melo, Wade, or both when they are inevitably bought out at some point.

Melo is not getting bought out, that's a pipe dream. If Melo goes to Cavs, they lose Love. I don't see how Wade makes the Cavs any better, maybe worse. They've lost this off-season and that says a lot. 

[briantw]

6 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Melo is not getting bought out, that's a pipe dream. If Melo goes to Cavs, they lose Love. I don't see how Wade makes the Cavs any better, maybe worse. They've lost this off-season and that says a lot. 

Why would you think that Melo isn't getting bought out?  Whoever takes over as GM of the Knicks is going to have one main priority right out of the gates, and that priority is going to be to get Melo's contract off the books.  New York is a rebuilding team, and Melo has no spot on a rebuilding team at this point in his career.  New York fired Jackson because it was about to get ugly between the team and Melo, and they didn't want that type of PR nightmare.  They also weren't happy with how Jackson was straining the team's relationship with KP, who is their franchise player going forward.  

Firing Jackson has bought the team some time to work on trading Melo, but ultimately I don't think that's going to happen and he'll end up being bought out.  He'll probably give the team a bit of a discount now that Jackson is gone.  

I'm also not sure why you think Melo on the Cavs means that Love is gone.  No chance the Cavs would trade Love for Carmelo.  If the Cavs did trade for Melo, it would likely be Shumpert (or the non-guaranteed contracts he may be traded for very soon), Frye, and change.  And the Knicks would take that and run, especially if Shumpert is replaced with non-guaranteed guys.

As for Wade, why would him joining the Cavs make them worse?  He may not be elite any more, but he's still a very good player.  Also, there's a decent chance he injures one of the Warriors in the Finals and gets away with it completely (see: Rondo, Rajon), as he's arguably the dirtiest player in the NBA.  He's like the Ric Flair of basketball.  Regardless, I don't see how adding him for free makes the Cavs worse.  

It's like people forget that the Cavs were one shot away from heading into game five tied 2-2.  That series was a lot closer than people seem to recall.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

50 minutes ago, briantw said:

No chance LeBron goes West.  None.  Zero.

Then why didn't he commit to ownership when they were trying to get the George deal done? That was the one thing that supposedly hung up the deal. 

[briantw]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Then why didn't he commit to ownership when they were trying to get the George deal done? That was the one thing that supposedly hung up the deal. 

I don't buy that for a second.  Pritchard didn't want to trade him within the same division and have to deal with him and Kyrie for the next five-plus years.  Heard that verbatim (well, not the part about Kyrie, but the part about trading him within the Central) from a person I know for a fact has sources within the Cavs. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, briantw said:

I don't buy that for a second.  Pritchard didn't want to trade him within the same division and have to deal with him and Kyrie for the next five-plus years.  Heard that verbatim (well, not the part about Kyrie, but the part about trading him within the Central) from a person I know for a fact has sources within the Cavs. 

They would have been getting Kyrie. That makes zero sense.

[briantw]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

They would have been getting Kyrie. That makes zero sense.

Who would have been getting Kyrie?  There has never been a trade for George where Kyrie was on the table.  Why in the fuck would the Cavs trade Kyrie for George?  That doesn't even remotely make sense.

The deal the Cavs had on the table was with Denver and Indiana.  Love would have went to Denver, George to Cleveland, and Harris and a first to Indiana.  According to numerous people, the deal was agreed to by Denver and Cleveland, but Indiana backed out at the last minute to take a worse deal and send George out of the conference/division.  

 

 

[Calibandar]

Gary Harris and a protected first round pick is also a terrible deal for Paul George.

I can see why they preferred Oladipo.

[briantw]

7 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Gary Harris and a protected first round pick is also a terrible deal for Paul George.

I can see why they preferred Oladipo.

I can't.  Harris is already a better player than Oladipo and he's three years younger.  Oladipo likely isn't getting much better at this point.  Harris could still improve.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

52 minutes ago, briantw said:

Why would you think that Melo isn't getting bought out?  Whoever takes over as GM of the Knicks is going to have one main priority right out of the gates, and that priority is going to be to get Melo's contract off the books.  New York is a rebuilding team, and Melo has no spot on a rebuilding team at this point in his career.  New York fired Jackson because it was about to get ugly between the team and Melo, and they didn't want that type of PR nightmare.  They also weren't happy with how Jackson was straining the team's relationship with KP, who is their franchise player going forward.  

Firing Jackson has bought the team some time to work on trading Melo, but ultimately I don't think that's going to happen and he'll end up being bought out.  He'll probably give the team a bit of a discount now that Jackson is gone.  

I'm also not sure why you think Melo on the Cavs means that Love is gone.  No chance the Cavs would trade Love for Carmelo.  If the Cavs did trade for Melo, it would likely be Shumpert (or the non-guaranteed contracts he may be traded for very soon), Frye, and change.  And the Knicks would take that and run, especially if Shumpert is replaced with non-guaranteed guys.

As for Wade, why would him joining the Cavs make them worse?  He may not be elite any more, but he's still a very good player.  Also, there's a decent chance he injures one of the Warriors in the Finals and gets away with it completely (see: Rondo, Rajon), as he's arguably the dirtiest player in the NBA.  He's like the Ric Flair of basketball.  Regardless, I don't see how adding him for free makes the Cavs worse.  

It's like people forget that the Cavs were one shot away from heading into game five tied 2-2.  That series was a lot closer than people seem to recall.

Everything I've read or seen, is no buyout and would want Love and Ahumpert I believe for Melo. No way their letting Melo walk for nothing and not get anything in return.

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Everything I've read or seen, is no buyout and would want Love and Ahumpert I believe for Melo. No way their letting Melo walk for nothing and not get anything in return.

Zero chance the Knicks get Love for Melo.  Less than zero.  I also think there's a very, very low chance that Melo plays a single game for the Knicks this year.  They want him gone.  He wants to be gone.  They also are going to have a hell of a time trading him, because he can veto any trade.  Which means that, if they can't find a team to take him (and it will be a shit deal...he should fetch less than George or Butler, and both of those guys were dealt for peanuts), they'll likely be buying him out.

And of course the Knicks are saying they aren't going to buy him out.  If they said they were going to, they'd lose all their leverage, and they barely have any as it is.  We're talking about a player who will refuse to go to any team but maybe two, and neither of those teams is in a rush to trade for him.

[Relic]

Knicks aren't buying Melo out. 

[Red Tiger]

Childish, but I did snicker

https://68.media.tumblr.com/4f65649458c924a469b35776fbe068d3/tumblr_osfs42W7jx1rk0k4co1_400.png

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, briantw said:

Who would have been getting Kyrie?  There has never been a trade for George where Kyrie was on the table.  Why in the fuck would the Cavs trade Kyrie for George?  That doesn't even remotely make sense.

The deal the Cavs had on the table was with Denver and Indiana.  Love would have went to Denver, George to Cleveland, and Harris and a first to Indiana.  According to numerous people, the deal was agreed to by Denver and Cleveland, but Indiana backed out at the last minute to take a worse deal and send George out of the conference/division.  

Nope.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/cavaliers-discussed-kyrie-irving-paul-george-3-team-trade/#Xhgs3ydf9Kt1lxSc.97

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

41 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Nope.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/cavaliers-discussed-kyrie-irving-paul-george-3-team-trade/#Xhgs3ydf9Kt1lxSc.97

Ah shit, nevermind. Turns out that one was an unsubstantiated rumor.