Marillon, Petyr agent from the beginning and still alive (?)

[Lord Freypie]

Just thought about that.

- LF was aware of Cat presence in KL in GOT, and her returning north after meeting Eddard. Considering how important she was for him, he certainly would have sent someone to follow her.

- While what finallty happens at the inn was unpredictable improvisation from Cat, it's Marillon who brings attention to her in front of Tyrion, which is good for LF plans (making Starks and Lannisters distrust each other). The goal may have been to reveal to the Lannisters that Cat was secretely present in KL, likely to plot with her husband against the queen.

- Then Marillon, while not a fighter decide to follow Cat on the dangerous route to the Erye.

- At the Erye Marillon mission may have changed, Petyr may have feared one of the Vale lord competing for lady Lysa hand would have finally succeeded to seduce her get it, ruining his long term plan of marriage with a high house. Advised by his agent of the situation, he may have asked Marillon to stay there and make sure to do his best to make every pretender look bad in the eyes of Lysa (what he did mocking everyone of them in his songs).

 - Marillon rape attempt of "Alayne" may have been plotted by LF to make her trust Lothor Brune and by extension him as her protector, while also making sure she was not aware Marillon could be Petyr man.

 - Petyr saving Sansa while murdering Lysa may have been less an improvisation from Petyr than it seems if his agent Marillon manipulated Lysa to create this situation. And even if it was one, it may be Marillon who warned Petyr about what was going to happen so he arrived in time.

 - Then there's the Marillon testimony, making Sansa wonder why he recognized the crime and why Petyr was so confident he would. As there's no proof Marillon was even really tortured (all we see is he's supposed to have lost his eyes, but they are bandaged and nobody verifies if I'm not mistaken), he may well have just accepted for the promise to be expelled from the Erye.

 - The strange choice of letting Marillon his vocal chords and allowing him to sing while "in the cloud cells" may just have been a way to make sure everyone in the Erye believed he was there (while he was singing from some other room).

 - If true Marillon is likely still alive and may have expelled under disguise when all the servants left the Erye, or before with garbage through the elevators.

If it's the case and Marillon is still alive, he is a living proof Petyr lied to the Vale lords. It's the only reason this plan would have been a bit strange from Petyr, as it's letting alive a dangerous witness for him.

It may be more likely that Petyr made his agent believe he would be safe and still got him killed, just not the way people believe. In this case it's Lothor Brune and other Petyr accomplices who may have an interesting story to tell about his real fate.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

@Lord Freypie

Not gonna lie, you just blew my mind. I have no idea why I never had this thought myself. I am sold. This would also finally solve the one big missing piece of the puzzle that is the basis for my grand theory. I have long thought that the Old Gods/Bloodraven manipulated the events that caused the Wot5K, primarily the death of King Robert and the assassination attempt on Bran, with the attempt on Bran leaving behind LF's dagger as "evidence". And that dagger basically caused the war. It made Cat go to KL and talk to LF, made Ned ultimately refuse a peace with the Lannisters, and made Cat capture Tyrion. I have previously theorized that many people (who have had their telepathic abilities unlocked) like Jojen are pawns of the Old Gods, and that Littlefinger himself is one such pawn, having had a near-death experience in his youth that could have unlocked some telepathic potential to receive green dreams. And LF being a pawn of the Old Gods would explain his role in the matter.

But I could never explain the coincidence of Cat taking Tyrion, specifically because, as you pointed out, it was Marillion who caused Tyrion to notice Cat. I theorized that mayhaps the Old Gods can control the rain, and that the combination of weather control and coordinating the proper timing of Bran's assassin enabled them to make Cat and Tyrion arrive at the inn on the same day. But I couldn't explain Marillion.

And now you have . If Marillion was LF's agent the whole time, then the Old Gods did in fact have the ability - through their pawn LF - to ensure that Cat and Tyrion would have a confrontation at the inn.

I assume you probably won't subscribe to my personal grand theory, but nonetheless I give you many thanks for helping me solve one more piece of the puzzle! 

Side note - it may not have actually been Marillion singing in the sky cells at night. Tyrion noted that in the cells, "the wind screamed night and day". I think it would be difficult to hear anyone singing from the sky cells if this is true. It may be that the singing was inside Sansa's (and Robert's) head.

 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

I like this theory.  Can't say I am ready to buy it, but it has always struck me as odd as how willing to take the fall for LF that Marillion was.  This definitely helps explain that a lot.  Kudos.

[Wolf of the Steppes]

12 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I like this theory.  Can't say I am ready to buy it, but it has always struck me as odd as how willing to take the fall for LF that Marillion was.  This definitely helps explain that a lot.  Kudos.

Did it also seem odd that Cersei and Qyburn were able to make Wat the Blue Bard "sing the song" they wanted him to?  No. They tortured him into saying whatever they wanted.

[Lord Freypie]

The difference with the Blue Bard is the Blue Bard had no idea what he could say so the blame is put on someone else. He could have said "I'm innocent" when questionned by others than Qyburn nothing more.

Marillon on the other hand is a witness of Petyr killing Lysa, and gets to speak to vale lords who would be very happy to have a reason to bring LF down. He could reasonably believe he had a way to both save his life and get revenge against the people who tortured him / wanted him condemned.

Not to say he couldn't have been conditionned by torture, but Petyr must have been ultra confident in Mord skills or his/Sansa capacity to save the day if Marillon told the truth, to let him testimony.

Then there are a few hints in the text torture may be false :

 - Sansa hears from a servant that Marillon fingers were cut, look at them when Marillon testifies, barely notice anything (perhaps a bit more rigidity in his gloves) and conclude it may just have been a rumor (and it looks very LF to make his men spread such rumors if he wanted to hide Marillon wasn't really tortured )

 - The other torture Marillon is supposed to have suffered is having his eyes put out, but as well his hands are hidden by gloves he's presented with the eyes bandaged for the Vale lords meeting

 - In this hearing, Robin asks for Marillon to be sent through the moon door (make him fly), and Nestor Royce and others seem to agree Marillon should have been killed rather than put in a cell ; Littlefinger has a good excuse to immediatly get rid of Marillon, obeying the Erye prince's wish, avoiding to take the risk to have the singer questionned again by Bronze Yohn (another chance for Marillon to change his mind and tell the truth), but still decide to just return him to the sky cells

 - in Tyrion chapter when in the sky cells, it's said the wind make such noise he barely hears himself speaking ; in Sansa chapter when Marillon sings in the sky cells not only she's hearing him well "singing from the sky cells" but closing her shutters make no difference (which may be an hint the music isn't coming from outside but from another place inside the Erye)

I'm not saying it makes me sure Marillon was Petyr man and all his story a LF play, but it's a theory hard to rule out.

Main element against is more that it wouid be one more little twist about a character not really dead, and a very minor one, and there are so many in the serie it looks like lost time for Martin to include it (except if discovering the truth has important consequences for how Sansa sees LF).

[Wolf of the Steppes]

2 hours ago, Lord Freypie said:

The difference with the Blue Bard is the Blue Bard had no idea what he could say so the blame is put on someone else. He could have said "I'm innocent" when questionned by others than Qyburn nothing more.

Marillon on the other hand is a witness of Petyr killing Lysa, and gets to speak to vale lords who would be very happy to have a reason to bring LF down. He could reasonably believe he had a way to both save his life and get revenge against the people who tortured him / wanted him condemned.

Not to say he couldn't have been conditionned by torture, but Petyr must have been ultra confident in Mord skills or his/Sansa capacity to save the day if Marillon told the truth, to let him testimony.

Then there are a few hints in the text torture may be false :

 - Sansa hears from a servant that Marillon fingers were cut, look at them when Marillon testifies, barely notice anything (perhaps a bit more rigidity in his gloves) and conclude it may just have been a rumor (and it looks very LF to make his men spread such rumors if he wanted to hide Marillon wasn't really tortured )

 - The other torture Marillon is supposed to have suffered is having his eyes put out, but as well his hands are hidden by gloves he's presented with the eyes bandaged for the Vale lords meeting

 - In this hearing, Robin asks for Marillon to be sent through the moon door (make him fly), and Nestor Royce and others seem to agree Marillon should have been killed rather than put in a cell ; Littlefinger has a good excuse to immediatly get rid of Marillon, obeying the Erye prince's wish, avoiding to take the risk to have the singer questionned again by Bronze Yohn (another chance for Marillon to change his mind and tell the truth), but still decide to just return him to the sky cells

 - in Tyrion chapter when in the sky cells, it's said the wind make such noise he barely hears himself speaking ; in Sansa chapter when Marillon sings in the sky cells not only she's hearing him well "singing from the sky cells" but closing her shutters make no difference (which may be an hint the music isn't coming from outside but from another place inside the Erye)

I'm not saying it makes me sure Marillon was Petyr man and all his story a LF play, but it's a theory hard to rule out.

Main element against is more that it wouid be one more little twist about a character not really dead, and a very minor one, and there are so many in the serie it looks like lost time for Martin to include it (except if discovering the truth has important consequences for how Sansa sees LF).

All I was saying is that it didn't seem odd that LF COULD have tortured him into saying what he wanted.  

I don't disagree with anything you said there.  The few hints are there to indicate that the torture could have been false, as you said.  

As to Marillion being LF's agent the whole time?  I have to say that how you presented it is quite intriguing however unlikely.  It seems to me that there is too much left to chance for there to be a grand scheme.  How did anyone know that Cat and Tyrion would be at the inn at the X at the same time.  How would he know that Cat would decide to capture him, then she could have just as easily taken him to Winterfell.  Then, even Cat thinks how unlikely it was that Marillion survived the MotM journey.  

It just seems like a lot of circumstance.  LF, being this great schemer, it doesn't seem like he would invest in something like this with so much left to chance.  Then again, he does "thrive on chaos".  Ha...who knows

Again, quite an intriguing theory.  Cheers!