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Cersei's role in season 8 and KL's possible destruction


Frederic_ed

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Thanks to the leaked spoilers we pretty much know what will happen in season 7. One of the things that caught my attention is the fact that Cersei will survive season 7 and that the war for the iron throne will be kind of "paused" while everyone (but Cersei and Euron) deal with the WW. These rises a few questions. First of all, how will the KL's plot be resolved in season 8? I think leaving the war for the throne in stand-by is too big for D&D to have made up, it must come from the books. So... does that mean that Cersei will be dealt with AFTER the white walkers are taken care of?

Then I remembered LOTR and the fact that it's one of George R. R. Martin's favorite books. Remember the Scouring of the Shire? In the LOTR books, after Sauron is defeated the hobbits return to the Shire and find out it has been wrecked by Saruman (this was cut from the films). So, could George give an ending in which everyone returns to King's Landing after defeating the Others and Cersei destroys the city? It would be a fitting homage to Tolkien and would give us the "bittersweet ending" George has talked about.

That was just an idea, even if that doesn't happen, there must be some significance to the fact that everyone is going to focus on the war in the north and leaving Cersei for later. How will that be solved? If Jon and/or Daenerys die while fightning the Others, then Sansa could very well be the young more beautiful queen who will cast Cersei down.

Anyway, my big point is that the KL's plot has to be resolved and it seems that it will be left unresolved while everyone takes care of the WW. Any thoughts on it?

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21 hours ago, Frederic_ed said:

Thanks to the leaked spoilers we pretty much know what will happen in season 7. One of the things that caught my attention is the fact that Cersei will survive season 7 and that the war for the iron throne will be kind of "paused" while everyone (but Cersei and Euron) deal with the WW. These rises a few questions. First of all, how will the KL's plot be resolved in season 8? I think leaving the war for the throne in stand-by is too big for D&D to have made up, it must come from the books. So... does that mean that Cersei will be dealt with AFTER the white walkers are taken care of?

Then I remembered LOTR and the fact that it's one of George R. R. Martin's favorite books. Remember the Scouring of the Shire? In the LOTR books, after Sauron is defeated the hobbits return to the Shire and find out it has been wrecked by Saruman (this was cut from the films). So, could George give an ending in which everyone returns to King's Landing after defeating the Others and Cersei destroys the city? It would be a fitting homage to Tolkien and would give us the "bittersweet ending" George has talked about.

That was just an idea, even if that doesn't happen, there must be some significance to the fact that everyone is going to focus on the war in the north and leaving Cersei for later. How will that be solved? If Jon and/or Daenerys die while fightning the Others, then Sansa could very well be the young more beautiful queen who will cast Cersei down.

Anyway, my big point is that the KL's plot has to be resolved and it seems that it will be left unresolved while everyone takes care of the WW. Any thoughts on it?

I think that not focusing on Cersei and 

Spoiler

actually hunting wights for her after she having blown a sept with everyone there: The QUeen, her uncle, Hand of the King, etc

means that 

1) the plot is laughable, the characters are laughable

2) the real plot will be different than the leaks

because it makes no sense. I think it's not logical. My humble op on that topic.

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I cannot see Cersei sitting idle while the protagonists are dealing with the Others.  She would be too paranoid that they would come for her after the WWs were dealt with (which they certainly would), so I'm like 99.99% confident she will strike at our heroes while they are occupied with the WWs and vulnerable.  

She won't pass up a chance to wipe out all of her rivals when they are least expecting it.  It's just her style, she can't help herself.  She doesn't give a damn about the greater good, or the loss of life that would result from the Other's not being stopped ASAP.  She'll probably tell herself she can just deal with the WWs herself once she's the only monarch in Westeros. 

Jon/Dany made a terrible mistake not dealing with her in S7.  Leaving her (and Euron) at their backs cannot possibly lead to anything but some good ol' backstabbing.  

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23 hours ago, Frederic_ed said:

Thanks to the leaked spoilers we pretty much know what will happen in season 7. One of the things that caught my attention is the fact that Cersei will survive season 7 and that the war for the iron throne will be kind of "paused" while everyone (but Cersei and Euron) deal with the WW. These rises a few questions. First of all, how will the KL's plot be resolved in season 8? I think leaving the war for the throne in stand-by is too big for D&D to have made up, it must come from the books. So... does that mean that Cersei will be dealt with AFTER the white walkers are taken care of?

Then I remembered LOTR and the fact that it's one of George R. R. Martin's favorite books. Remember the Scouring of the Shire? In the LOTR books, after Sauron is defeated the hobbits return to the Shire and find out it has been wrecked by Saruman (this was cut from the films). So, could George give an ending in which everyone returns to King's Landing after defeating the Others and Cersei destroys the city? It would be a fitting homage to Tolkien and would give us the "bittersweet ending" George has talked about.

That was just an idea, even if that doesn't happen, there must be some significance to the fact that everyone is going to focus on the war in the north and leaving Cersei for later. How will that be solved? If Jon and/or Daenerys die while fightning the Others, then Sansa could very well be the young more beautiful queen who will cast Cersei down.

Anyway, my big point is that the KL's plot has to be resolved and it seems that it will be left unresolved while everyone takes care of the WW. Any thoughts on it?

Doesnt Jaime "steal" the Lannister troops and march off to help in the Great War according to these leaks? And so leaving Cersei with gold cloaks, wildfire, Qyburn, See Gregor and possibly some sellswords. Might be the season ending with her saying "burn them all"? :drunk:

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9 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Doesnt Jaime "steal" the Lannister troops and march off to help in the Great War according to these leaks? And so leaving Cersei with gold cloaks, wildfire, Qyburn, See Gregor and possibly some sellswords. Might be the season ending with her saying "burn them all"? :drunk:

She will be in season 8, Lena Headey signed her contract until the final season. But that's pretty much what I think will happen (only that I think it will happen in the final season). Once the WW are defeated and everybody marches towards King's Landing she might decide to burn the whole city before surrendering it, thus being a parallel to Saruman from LOTR.

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2 hours ago, Frederic_ed said:

She will be in season 8, Lena Headey signed her contract until the final season. But that's pretty much what I think will happen (only that I think it will happen in the final season). Once the WW are defeated and everybody marches towards King's Landing she might decide to burn the whole city before surrendering it, thus being a parallel to Saruman from LOTR.

Wouldn't the North be the Shire? The story starts in WF, its largely harmonic, many protagonists belong there.

If so the Saruman would be the IB, Bolton and maybe Frey. 

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Cersei will remain in power until the end. She is the last human villain imo.

My wishful thinking is that after the NK has been dealt with Bran will take charge of the WW army and lead it into KL. Then Cersei ignites the wildfire and the WW are gone for good. 

In S6 Bran had a vision where the mad king says burn them all. I think that it is a hint on how to destroy the walkers , burn them all with wildfire. 

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It never made much sense that anyone, even Cersei, could expect to take on the NK army after he has decimated the rest of the armies (coalition?). For her to think she could sit back and let the NK kill everyone else and then what? Negotiate a peace? Has she gone that crazy? His undead army would be in the millions. Not enough wildfire for that. It's just silly.

There is some logic missing there and while I think there are obviously parts of the leaks that are true a great amount of info and context is missing.

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On 6/21/2017 at 10:06 AM, Frederic_ed said:

She will be in season 8, Lena Headey signed her contract until the final season. But that's pretty much what I think will happen (only that I think it will happen in the final season). Once the WW are defeated and everybody marches towards King's Landing she might decide to burn the whole city before surrendering it, thus being a parallel to Saruman from LOTR.

I think that while the main actors all signed through season 8 it was written that the characters may be killed off at anytime. She could have one scene in season 8, a funeral scene for example...if there is anyone left who cared enough to bury her. Qyburn maybe.

Now I jus freaked myself out thinking of Qyburn unGregoring her. Sorry. Ignore that.

But yes, I can see her burning it all down. If I can't have the throne no one can.

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Ooh, a good question.

The leaks I read state that Jaime does not steal the army, but goes North alone. Cersei still has the army and King's Landing, and she is foolish enough to want the White Walkers and Dany to kill off each other before she strikes. 

My idea is that Dany and Jon will try to evacuate the civilians of the North beyond the Neck, leaving the North as a battlefield - only able fighters armed with obsidian/Valyrian steel. Cersei will attack the refugees. Maybe there will be talk of flooding the Neck, a la what the Children of the Forest apparently once tried to do? That would be interestingly apocalyptic, I think.

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On Invalid Date at 3:40 PM, LordImp said:

In S6 Bran had a vision where the mad king says burn them all. I think that it is a hint on how to destroy the walkers , burn them all with wildfire. 

I've long suspected that this is shown because it will be revealed that Bran is actually the one who made the Mad King go mad.  I think he went back in time to convince the Mad king of the threat early on, was telling him to "Burn them all" and the Mad King, not knowing the voice was Bran's, was pulling a "Hodor" and repeating "Burn them all" when Jaime overhears this, thinks the King is talking about the citizens, and kills him...

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2 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I've long suspected that this is shown because it will be revealed that Bran is actually the one who made the Mad King go mad.  I think he went back in time to convince the Mad king of the threat early on, was telling him to "Burn them all" and the Mad King, not knowing the voice was Bran's, was pulling a "Hodor" and repeating "Burn them all" when Jaime overhears this, thinks the King is talking about the citizens, and kills him...

Only thing is that madness was common among the Targaryens . So i think Aerys was infected by the Targaryen madness rather than Bran influencing him. 

 

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13 minutes ago, LordImp said:

Only thing is that madness was common among the Targaryens . So i think Aerys was infected by the Targaryen madness rather than Bran influencing him. 

There have only been 5 "mad" Targs.  6 if you want to throw Viserys in there, but I think he was just greedy and impatient.  This probably comes from all the inbreeding within the Targs family.  But even still, my money is still on Bran having driven King Aerys mad.  We shall see though...

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24 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

There have only been 5 "mad" Targs.  6 if you want to throw Viserys in there, but I think he was just greedy and impatient.  This probably comes from all the inbreeding within the Targs family.  But even still, my money is still on Bran having driven King Aerys mad.  We shall see though...

It could be the case. But due to the Targaryen madness Aerys being just Targ mad makes more sense. It's also stated that Aerys went mad because being held captive at Duskendale.

Also I find the idea that Bran being behind everything due to time travel cheezy. 

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1 hour ago, LordImp said:

It could be the case. But due to the Targaryen madness Aerys being just Targ mad makes more sense. It's also stated that Aerys went mad because being held captive at Duskendale.

Also I find the idea that Bran being behind everything due to time travel cheezy. 

In my opinion, there has been foreshadowing of Bran's actions affecting the past numerous times in both the book and show.  But focusing on the show, I'd say it has been pretty evident.  They made it a point to show how Bran called out to Ned at the ToJ and Ned seemingly heard him.  The show also accentuates Bloodraven seemingly realizing that Bran connected him calling Ned to Ned turning around, looking for the voice, then has Bloodraven trying to convince Bran it was just the wind Ned heard.  Trying to convince Bran the past cannot be changed.  I think they do this to set up Bran trying to save everyone he knows of the eventual deaths and damage by going back and trying to reshape the future through the past.  Cheesy as it may seem, I feel like that will be revealed.  It would be ironic if the whole story was cyclical, with Bran going back and doing all these things in an attempt to change the future, but failing to realize everything he's doing has already been done.  The ink is dry. 

Who knows.  All I'm saying is I don't think we've even grasped how important Bran may actually be.  The show has kept him relevant since season 5 and seems to be building towards something big, and I think it has more to do with how Bran is central to the story,  aside from just being the 3-eyed raven and knowing who Jon's real parents are.  I think seasons 7 and 8 hold the most story for Bran than we've seen to date...

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

In my opinion, there has been foreshadowing of Bran's actions affecting the past numerous times in both the book and show.  But focusing on the show, I'd say it has been pretty evident.  They made it a point to show how Bran called out to Ned at the ToJ and Ned seemingly heard him.  The show also accentuates Bloodraven seemingly realizing that Bran connected him calling Ned to Ned turning around, looking for the voice, then has Bloodraven trying to convince Bran it was just the wind Ned heard.  Trying to convince Bran the past cannot be changed.  I think they do this to set up Bran trying to save everyone he knows of the eventual deaths and damage by going back and trying to reshape the future through the past.  Cheesy as it may seem, I feel like that will be revealed.  It would be ironic if the whole story was cyclical, with Bran going back and doing all these things in an attempt to change the future, but failing to realize everything he's doing has already been done.  The ink is dry. 

Who knows.  All I'm saying is I don't think we've even grasped how important Bran may actually be.  The show has kept him relevant since season 5 and seems to be building towards something big, and I think it has more to do with how Bran is central to the story,  aside from just being the 3-eyed raven and knowing who Jon's real parents are.  I think seasons 7 and 8 hold the most story for Bran than we've seen to date...

I hear you and it's certainly a possibility. But there was mad Targs before Aerys , so why would it be different for him? Why can't he just be Targ mad like the others? 

And why would Bran choose to influence Aerys? Why not Robert? Why not going further back to convince Aegon the conquerer who actually had dragons? 

If dragons are essential in defeating WW then trying to influence Aerys dosen't maku much sense . Only thing he had was armies and wildfire . 

The S6 vision also shows the wildfire explosion in Kings landing. That and burn them alll makes me think that wildfire is the key. 

I'm not ruling it out and I will not be suprised if Bran/Aerys is true. Maybe Bran called out to Aerys to make him produce wildfire cause that's what will defeat the WW? I dont know. 

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15 hours ago, LordImp said:

I hear you and it's certainly a possibility. But there was mad Targs before Aerys , so why would it be different for him? Why can't he just be Targ mad like the others? 

And why would Bran choose to influence Aerys? Why not Robert? Why not going further back to convince Aegon the conquerer who actually had dragons? 

If dragons are essential in defeating WW then trying to influence Aerys dosen't maku much sense . Only thing he had was armies and wildfire . 

The S6 vision also shows the wildfire explosion in Kings landing. That and burn them alll makes me think that wildfire is the key. 

I'm not ruling it out and I will not be suprised if Bran/Aerys is true. Maybe Bran called out to Aerys to make him produce wildfire cause that's what will defeat the WW? I dont know. 

I agree with you there.  Bran reaching out to other figures may have seemed like the smarter choice.  I like you're wildfire idea.  That may be key.  The foreshadowing is certainly there for that and would fit with Bran reaching out to the Mad King, if he did.  Let's not forget, the story goes that the Mad King had enough wildfire reserves to blow all of Kings Landing.  While he had the wildfire set so that Robert wouldn't have King Landing, Bran may have gone back, seen this, and then tried to convince Aerys to use the wildfire against the WW.  I'll be interested to see how it all plays out...

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I agree with you there.  Bran reaching out to other figures may have seemed like the smarter choice.  I like you're wildfire idea.  That may be key.  The foreshadowing is certainly there for that and would fit with Bran reaching out to the Mad King, if he did.  Let's not forget, the story goes that the Mad King had enough wildfire reserves to blow all of Kings Landing.  While he had the wildfire set so that Robert wouldn't have King Landing, Bran may have gone back, seen this, and then tried to convince Aerys to use the wildfire against the WW.  I'll be interested to see how it all plays out...

I think you guys are giving too much credit to the show, if it happens in the books it may lead somewhere, but in the show... Im not that certain. I think they only included the Mad King's flashback in order to give viewers a remainder of how that happened and also to remind them about the wildfire hidden beneath the city so the destruction of Sept of Baelor wouldn't look like a deus ex machina.

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