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U.S. Politics-Getting a Handel On Why the DNC Is Pissing Ossof


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9 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I don't buy that. He doesn't know what's in the bill. He's the guy who sat in the Rose Garden and celebrated the House passing the bill like the biggest win ever. And he's the guy every day on social media saying Obamacare is dying and that the Democrats are evil for perpetuating lies that it's ok. So no, he won't veto it.

He's also the guy who says he's going to do A and then does B.  He's the guy who then says he never did B even though it's on camera and never said A even though it's still on twitter.  He's the dude who's talking about how there was no Russian interference in the election while also posting on twitter that there definitely was.  He says there are tapes and then says there aren't.  I'll give you that the only consistent thing about him is his hatred for anything related to Obama or Democrat in general, but that doesn't mean that he's going to definitely sign the AHCA.  He doesn't even understand how the basics of government works.  He's just as likely to veto it as he is to sign it, and no matter what he does he'll go on twitter and tell a different story.  Even if he signs it, I'll be 100% sure that he only did because someone told him it was only a repeal ACA bill.  

And still at the end of the day none of this will matter to his supporters because nothing matters to them at all.  They stand for nothing except Trump at this point. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

He's also the guy who says he's going to do A and then does B.  He's the guy who then says he never did B even though it's on camera and never said A even though it's still on twitter.  He's the dude who's talking about how there was no Russian interference in the election while also posting on twitter that there definitely was.  He says there are tapes and then says there aren't.  I'll give you that the only consistent thing about him is his hatred for anything related to Obama or Democrat in general, but that doesn't mean that he's going to definitely sign the AHCA.  He doesn't even understand how the basics of government works.  He's just as likely to veto it as he is to sign it, and no matter what he does he'll go on twitter and tell a different story.  Even if he signs it, I'll be 100% sure that he only did because someone told him it was only a repeal ACA bill.  

And still at the end of the day none of this will matter to his supporters because nothing matters to them at all.  They stand for nothing except Trump at this point. 

Yes, but none of that happens when he can claim credit for doing something he said he'd do. He's not just as likely to veto a bill from the Republicans as sign it. He's significantly less likely. Almost so much less likely that I'd give it less than 2% chance and that number is completely arbitrary because I see no world that Trump vetos a bill that passes House Republicans, Senate Republicans, repeals Obamacare and gives him a chance to proclaim victory. He gives no fucks what's in it, you know this, I know this. So no idea why you'd think it's just as likely he'd veto the bill when he's shown zero backbone the entire time he's been President.

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1 minute ago, Mexal said:

I see no world that Trump vetos a bill that passes House Republicans, Senate Republicans, repeals Obamacare and gives him a chance to proclaim victory. He gives no fucks what's in it, you know this, I know this.

I agree with this, if it comes to his desk, he'll sign all the while crowing about how good the bill is for 'our country.'         >>>barf<<<

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19 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't see why. The underlying political calculus is the same - dare to make Republican moderates turn out enough to actually be the deciding factor in a Republican viewpoint going down, and one that is very unpopular. In the end they miraculously had just enough votes, and gave a couple members some cover. 

A vote on Trumpcare is immeasurably more salient.  And it is significantly more unpopular than Devos.

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8 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Yes, but none of that happens when he can claim credit for doing something he said he'd do. He's not just as likely to veto a bill from the Republicans as sign it. He's significantly less likely. Almost so much less likely that I'd give it less than 2% chance and that number is completely arbitrary because I see no world that Trump vetos a bill that passes House Republicans, Senate Republicans, repeals Obamacare and gives him a chance to proclaim victory. He gives no fucks what's in it, you know this, I know this. So no idea why you'd think it's just as likely he'd veto the bill when he's shown zero backbone the entire time he's been President.

It's because he gives no fucks what's in the bill that he's just as likely to veto as to sign.  He doesn't care about anything except his image.  He's proven multiple times that he's fine going against his own party if he thinks it makes his image look good.  You know this, I know this, we all know this.  

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1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

It's because he gives no fucks what's in the bill that he's just as likely to veto as to sign.  He doesn't care about anything except his image.  He's proven multiple times that he's fine going against his own party if he thinks it makes his image look good.  You know this, I know this, we all know this.  

No. I don't know this. I don't believe this at all. Because I don't think he would ever do something the Democrats want him to do, the Republicans don't want him to do and that would force him to say "this is bad" instead of "this is great". 

Anyway, last post on this. Think we're going in circles now.

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27 minutes ago, Mexal said:

No. I don't know this. I don't believe this at all. Because I don't think he would ever do something the Democrats want him to do, the Republicans don't want him to do and that would force him to say "this is bad" instead of "this is great". 

Anyway, last post on this. Think we're going in circles now.

Really, we haven't spent months talking about how Trump lies, Trump doesn't do what he says he'll do?  I mean, we're in bizarro world now when someone who I assume isn't one of his disciples starts suggesting that Trump will do what he says he'll do.  Trump doesn't stand for anything except himself.  It's not a given that he'll do something just because that one time he said he would.

You're right, we're going in circles, and I have plenty of evidence to support my claim. 

21 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

The biggest reason Trump will not veto the Health Care Bill is that Impeachment procedings will start the next day.

And then he'll call in the national guard.  

But truly, the GOP is too chicken shit to do anything like that.  That party stands for nothing.  

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Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

But truly, the GOP is too chicken shit to do anything like that.  That party stands for nothing.  

I think this is unfair to the GOP. It stands for tax cuts for the wealthy. LOL.

Tax Cuts Uber Alles.

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1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

So, you don't have an actual example then?  Thus no double standard.  Glad that's cleared up.

I know it checks all of the narrative boxes for NYT but the Sen. Harris story is a total non story.  In over 2 centuries of the Republic I rather doubt that was the first time a Senator cut in on behalf a witness friendly to their side.  

If Sen. Harris were being questioned in the same fashion by Sessions such that Franken would have interjected then the issue would be how Sessions was berating a witness.  

Either way its a shame NYT was wasting oxygen on such a non story when they could be getting to the bottom of Russian hacks on behalf a Nazi president with pee fetish.

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The silencing by senator colleagues was also done to Sen. Elizabeth Warren.  As for what stories the NYT writes, they certainly can write on both as one does not exclude the other.

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7 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

I know it checks all of the narrative boxes for NYT but the Sen. Harris story is a total non story.  In over 2 centuries of the Republic I rather doubt that was the first time a Senator cut in on behalf a witness friendly to their side.  

You're probably right but it is rare - as evidenced by your inability to find a corresponding example with the parties switched.  The point is it happening to Harris twice in the span of a week - combined with the previous shutting down of Warren in a very rare way - presents a pattern of behavior.  Is it a huge story?  No.  But it's a story.

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27 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Really, we haven't spent months talking about how Trump lies, Trump doesn't do what he says he'll do?  I mean, we're in bizarro world now when someone who I assume isn't one of his disciples starts suggesting that Trump will do what he says he'll do.  Trump doesn't stand for anything except himself.  It's not a given that he'll do something just because that one time he said he would.

You're right, we're going in circles, and I have plenty of evidence to support my claim. 

Unfortunately, the manner in which he lies isn't really an accurate predictor of what he will do ultimately. He talked a whole bunch of shit about the Saudis, then buddies up to them after they put his fat orange face on a bunch of billboards and kiss his ass. He painted the Chinese as currency manipulators and destroyers of American jobs, then kisses up to them after they grant him a bunch of trademarks. He is not under investigation, but he lawyers up. Even his lawyers are lawyering up. 

I think the most accurate predictor here is what is in Trump's best self-interest? His base seems to believe that "repealing Obamacare" is more important than having affordable healthcare. He'll sign this legislation if it gets through the House and Senate.

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3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Unfortunately, the manner in which he lies isn't really an accurate predictor of what he will do ultimately. He talked a whole bunch of shit about the Saudis, then buddies up to them after they put his fat orange face on a bunch of billboards and kiss his ass. He painted the Chinese as currency manipulators and destroyers of American jobs, then kisses up to them after they grant him a bunch of trademarks. He is not under investigation, but he lawyers up. Even his lawyers are lawyering up. 

I think the most accurate predictor here is what is in Trump's best self-interest? His base seems to believe that "repealing Obamacare" is more important than having affordable healthcare. He'll sign this legislation if it gets through the House and Senate.

The R's know this, and I would not be surprised that there plenty of lackeys, including Pence, telling 45 how wonderful he is because it will be him that signs this shit heap.  Yanno, their version of his mug on billboards and licking out his ass.  Yup, if it makes it that far, he'll sign.  

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1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

You're probably right but it is rare - as evidenced by your inability to find a corresponding example with the parties switched.  The point is it happening to Harris twice in the span of a week - combined with the previous shutting down of Warren in a very rare way - presents a pattern of behavior.  Is it a huge story?  No.  But it's a story.

Harris being called "hysterical" by Jason Miller, while Wyden was not, says a lot as well.

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10 hours ago, commiedore said:

i'll admit i'm not the most informed when it comes to the inner machinations of politics (as i'm sure many would be happy to point out) but i would hope a supposedly progressive party leader in progessive state would maybe do a little more to work it out than just shelving it ... but what do i know

Yeah, me neither. Much of it is beyond me. That said, this makes a lot of sense. You've got a potentially huge impact to how this legislation would work coming down the pike. (Wealthcare) It makes sense to table this until that mess shakes out.

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15 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Unfortunately, the manner in which he lies isn't really an accurate predictor of what he will do ultimately. He talked a whole bunch of shit about the Saudis, then buddies up to them after they put his fat orange face on a bunch of billboards and kiss his ass. He painted the Chinese as currency manipulators and destroyers of American jobs, then kisses up to them after they grant him a bunch of trademarks. He is not under investigation, but he lawyers up. Even his lawyers are lawyering up. 

I think the most accurate predictor here is what is in Trump's best self-interest? His base seems to believe that "repealing Obamacare" is more important than having affordable healthcare. He'll sign this legislation if it gets through the House and Senate.

And all of this is just further proof that it could go either way for Trump.  Who is going to kiss his ass in the proper way on the day he signs or vetoes?  Which of his handlers will be exerting the most control that day?  Which news piece will he see that morning?  What trending tweet will be at the top of his feed?  Mexal's assertion is that Trump has said X since day once so he'll definitely sign the bill and yet Trump constantly says one thing and does another because his ego was stroked a certain way.  It's absurd to rely on what he says in order to predeict what he'll do.  

As for his base, they'll believe whatever he tells them because they are blind, stupid or both.  He convinced his base that he'll bring coal and manufacturing back and they think that's true and voted for him.  If he vetoes and tells them that the bill was mean and the ACA was better, they will believe them (in this case, it would be true, but they can't seem to figure it out for themselves).   A third of his base doesn't even realize the ACA and Obamacare are the same things.  I'm pretty sure Trump doesn't either.  

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1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

I think this is unfair to the GOP. It stands for tax cuts for the wealthy. LOL.

Tax Cuts Uber Alles.

True.  I should complete the sentence with "Good".  They stand for nothing good.  

Here's one of their nothing goods

http://www.newsweek.com/womens-rights-birth-control-abortion-missouri-discrimination-628538

Missouri wants to make it legal for landlords and employers to discriminate against women based on their reproductive choices.  The governor already worked to overturn a local ordinance that protected women from this sort of discrimination.  

Maybe we Democrats should introduce the bill to discriminate against men who have used condoms or masturbated to ejaculation.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Maybe we Democrats should introduce the bill to discriminate against men who have used condoms or masturbated to ejaculation.

Or use Viagra or other boner pills.

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