Euron Greyjoy needs a army

[LordImp]

Euron wants Westeros and maybe even the whole world. He wants the Iron throne. But to get this he needs a army.

Being superior at sea is not enough and the ironborn are no match for a mainland army . And if he gets a dragon it's still not enough.

Euron seems very confident that Dany wil side with him and if she does he has his army. 

Though it's a big possibility that Dany will fight Euron rather than join him. What then? 

Even with a supreme navy , fierce warriors , dragons and other magic he dont stand a chance against Dany , Aegon , Tyrells etc. 

 

In the Forsaken chapter Aeron has a vision about Krakens , dragons and sphinxes bowing at Eurons command. Could this be his army ?

 

So if Dany refuses Eurons offer , what will he do? Where will he get his army ? How will he conquer Westeros? 

[Wolf of The Wall]

I don't think we have seen Euron's endgame yet. He says he will get a Dragon to conquer Westeros but he is not delusional. I think he plans something else. I don't know what but definately plans something else.

[Makk]

I would say we don't really know what Euron wants yet. His actions show he doesn't care about wealth or the lives of his men, even from a strategical point of view. I'm not convinced he really cares about the Iron throne either. My guess is he is after something in Oldtown although I have no idea what that might be.

[LordImp]

3 minutes ago, Makk said:

I would say we don't really know what Euron wants yet. His actions show he doesn't care about wealth or the lives of his men, even from a strategical point of view. I'm not convinced he really cares about the Iron throne either. My guess is he is after something in Oldtown although I have no idea what that might be.

I think he wants the Long night , he wants to destroy the world and then rule over it's ashes as the new god . I think he is one of those who wants to see the world burn . Still he should have a army , if Dany decides to fight Euron he will be in a bad position without an army. But who knows maybe some magic is all he needs .  

[Deepbollywood Motte]

10 minutes ago, LordImp said:

I think he wants the Long night , he wants to destroy the world and then rule over it's ashes as the new god . I think he is one of those who wants to see the world burn . Still he should have a army , if Dany decides to fight Euron he will be in a bad position without an army. But who knows maybe some magic is all he needs .  

I guess nobody really wants the (second) long ningt and if the other conquer much of westeros how does he see himself as a new king, he is 'the enemy' to the Others because he is human, how do you imagine this? Does he want to burn everything he knowns?

[LordImp]

Just now, Deepbollywood Motte said:

I guess nobody really wants the (second) long ningt and if the other conquer much of westeros how does he see himself as a new king, he is 'the enemy' to the Others because he is human, how do you imagine this? Does he want to burn everything he knowns?

Euron is Euron , there is no one like him . He is mad and evil and in the Forsaken chapter he pictures himself as a god . And who knows what he truly wants? I will not be suprised if he actually wants the long night . 

How he will deal with the Others. I think Euron wants to become the new god . But he is of course going to fail at some point and I 'm pretty sure he is dead when the Others starts to conquer. How the Others fits into his  plan I have  no idea . 

Euron is the kind of guy who would love a world in chaos. So it's not so crazy to think that he wants everything to burn. 

[Deepbollywood Motte]

2 minutes ago, LordImp said:

Euron is Euron , there is no one like him . He is mad and evil and in the Forsaken chapter he pictures himself as a god . And who knows what he truly wants? I will not be suprised if he actually wants the long night . 

How he will deal with the Others. I think Euron wants to become the new god . But he is of course going to fail at some point and I 'm pretty sure he is dead when the Others starts to conquer. How the Others fits into his  plan I have  no idea . 

Euron is the kind of guy who would love a world in chaos. So it's not so crazy to think that he wants everything to burn. 

I've read the forsaken chapters and i'm actually in the team 'failing euron' because... what do you expect? everything points towards a greyjoy failure. 

I know your answer, but krakens, but magic, but shit.

Are there really krakens?, is there really magic? is there really buttshit? (Well chamberpots are a thing)

[LordImp]

4 minutes ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

I've read the forsaken chapters and i'm actually in the team 'failing euron' because... what do you expect? everything points towards a greyjoy failure. 

I know your answer, but krakens, but magic, but shit.

Are there really krakens?, is there really magic? is there really buttshit? (Well chamberpots are a thing)

Yes there is magic. Dragons are magic just for info . 

Why not krakens? In a world with dragons , ice creatures, assassins who change their faces etc . Krakens are less weird than a lot of this stuff. 

Of course Euron is going to fail eventually . I think you have misunderstod me , I dont think Euron is going to suceed and actually become a god. I just think that's his plan . He will fail at some point that's for sure , but he can create a lot of chaos before his downfall. 

[chrisdaw]

He doesn't give a shit about the IT, it's just being used symbolically to represent domination and a lust for power and an understandable goal to sell his men. His goal is to become a literal god, not a king. He only needs an army/crown as a means to attract Dany, he only needs Dany as a means to his own Targaryen blooded child. The child he needs for sacrificial magic purposes in his search for ascendancy.

[Deepbollywood Motte]

46 minutes ago, LordImp said:

Yes there is magic. Dragons are magic just for info . 

Why not krakens? In a world with dragons , ice creatures, assassins who change their faces etc . Krakens are less weird than a lot of this stuff. 

Of course Euron is going to fail eventually . I think you have misunderstod me , I dont think Euron is going to suceed and actually become a god. I just think that's his plan . He will fail at some point that's for sure , but he can create a lot of chaos before his downfall. 

I don't think we know enough about dragons to say that they are magic, other than the birth of daenerys' dragons they don't seem very magical to me. Their birth could have a milion of explanations (I think about as much have been submitted here)... I agree with you that Euron will force some havoc on the seven kingdoms (he already has) but I also think he will be defeated by the larger forces of the Reach.

[Makk]

1 hour ago, LordImp said:

I think he wants the Long night , he wants to destroy the world and then rule over it's ashes as the new god . I think he is one of those who wants to see the world burn . Still he should have a army , if Dany decides to fight Euron he will be in a bad position without an army. But who knows maybe some magic is all he needs .  

I think it is quite possible he is some kind of servant to the Others, or possibly thinks he can control them. His strategy just seems so careless to me and hence is more likely a diversion. This quote from the forsaken chapter...

Spoiler

“Count yourself blessed, Damphair,” said Stonehand. “We are going back to sea. The Redwyne fleet creeps toward us. The winds have been against them rounding Dorne, but they’re finally near enough to have emboldened the old women in Oldtown, so now Leyton Hightower’s sons move down the Whispering Sound in hopes of catching us in the rear.”

...makes me think he was simply pillaging the country trying to provoke a reaction and now that the Hightowers have moved out from defending Oldtown it is time for him to make his move. It's entirely possible I am wrong but if he means to engage in a large set piece naval battle, the only way I can him winning is some magical silver bullet.

[Curled Finger]

There are kraken--(forgive me, I am unable to use asearchoficeandfire for a verbatim quote)--during one of the small council meetings in ADWD someone mentions a sighting.  There are dragons and kraken, why not sphinxes? 

Euron says himself that he needs an heir worthy of "HIM".   Who is him?   I think Euron wants to be a god, but this statement leads me to believe there is some higher power he needs to satisfy, at least in his mind.  It appears to be a tiered power thing.    Whatever it is Euron prays to it requires a great deal of destruction.  GRRM says we won't see any gods step into the story.  But we do have 3 Eyed Crow, sorcerers and alchemists and COTF and shadow binders and dragons.   There is plenty of magic to propel forces for good and evil.   Euron simply chose the dark side of the magic available.   I won't be underestimating him.  

So yes, I agree that Euron needs an army.   The Others have an army of reanimated corpses, there is no reason Euron won't command ghost ships or "mythical" creatures.   Where is @sweetsunray?   She will know which character from mythology he is supposed represent. 

[The Mother of The Others]

Ships are the best way to survive the Others the longest?   Either as a pro- human resistance army or a pro- apocalypse renegade bastard crew whose ship might slip in close enough to do bizness with Others while wisely keeping an extraction option handy (why trust Others just because partners)?

 

That mention of kraken, dragon, and sphinx just meant 3 armies.  (Come on.)   (Krakens are real, but not in that sentence.)

 

So far, Euron is straight up the best strategist and his delusions haven't gotten in the way of that.    30% of popcorn budget while reading Winds will be devoted to him.  Want to see the next objective fall.

[Foot_Of_The_King]

He's one my favorites..... That is all. 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

@LordImp

I have a very specific answer for you, and you have brought up a super important point.  

Euron will use the horn Dragonbinder to steal the Unsullied from Dany, who will be out in the field fighting when Victarion shows up in TWOW. There are a few things hinting that this will happen. First, like you said, Euron needs more troops. It would be just in his nature to re-enslave the elite army that was originally freed by Dany.

Then we have Dragonbinder. Most people take the story at face value and assume the horn is for controlling dragons, but this is clearly not the case. We have already seen Dragonbinder in action, and it was used to control humans and make everyone crown Euron as king. And the Unsullied are prime candidates to be controlled by a magic horn:

Quote

The queen had not known that the eunuchs had a goddess of their own. "Who is this goddess? One of the gods of Ghis?"

Grey Worm looked troubled. "The goddess is called by many names. She is the Lady of Spears, the Bride of Battle, the Mother of Hosts, but her true name belongs only to these poor ones who have burned their manhoods upon her altar. We may not speak of her to others. This one begs your forgiveness."

So if a magic horn is blown, and then someone starts giving commands to the Unsullied and they believe it is their goddess commanding them, they will abandon Dany in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even be surprised if GRRM used this opportunity to kill off Ser Barristan, maybe even with Grey Worm himself. After all, whenever too many POV characters converge, someone dies. It would be great drama and I am hoping for it.

Of course this would certainly piss off Dany. But assuming he has some way to counter her dragons, the Unsullied would be perfect for defeating her Dothraki in the field, if in fact Dany ends up rallying all the Dothraki to her cause because she can ride a dragon (dragons are basically the biggest and deadliest of all horses). And considering we have the legend of the Unsullied at Qohor defeating Dothraki, I think it is likely they will face off in the upcoming war, and that the story of Qohor was purposeful foreshadowing by GRRM.

How will Euron actually carry out the act of stealing the Unsullied if stupid Victarion is the one there? IDK, maybe Euron=Daario?  

[Prof. Cecily]

19 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

There are kraken--(forgive me, I am unable to use asearchoficeandfire for a verbatim quote)--during one of the small council meetings in ADWD someone mentions a sighting.  There are dragons and kraken, why not sphinxes? 

Euron says himself that he needs an heir worthy of "HIM".   Who is him?   I think Euron wants to be a god, but this statement leads me to believe there is some higher power he needs to satisfy, at least in his mind.  It appears to be a tiered power thing.    Whatever it is Euron prays to it requires a great deal of destruction.  GRRM says we won't see any gods step into the story.  But we do have 3 Eyed Crow, sorcerers and alchemists and COTF and shadow binders and dragons.   There is plenty of magic to propel forces for good and evil.   Euron simply chose the dark side of the magic available.   I won't be underestimating him.  

So yes, I agree that Euron needs an army.   The Others have an army of reanimated corpses, there is no reason Euron won't command ghost ships or "mythical" creatures.   Where is @sweetsunray?   She will know which character from mythology he is supposed represent. 

Search is running smoothly at the moment (I have my fingers crossed)

Quote

The eunuch drew a parchment from his sleeve. "A kraken has been seen off the Fingers." He giggled. "Not a Greyjoy, mind you, a true kraken. It attacked an Ibbenese whaler and pulled it under. There is fighting on the Stepstones, and a new war between Tyrosh and Lys seems likely. Both hope to win Myr as ally. Sailors back from the Jade Sea report that a three-headed dragon has hatched in Qarth, and is the wonder of that city—"

"Dragons and krakens do not interest me, regardless of the number of their heads," said Lord Tywin.

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion III

I'm looking forward to @sweetsunray take, but until she writes up something on the subject, is Manannán a vague candidate for a mythological source for Euron?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manannán_mac_Lir

 

[sweetsunray]

8 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Where is @sweetsunray?   She will know which character from mythology he is supposed represent. 

Haven't looked into Euron much yet in that regard.

But thinking about the "krakens, dragons and sphinxes"... A sphinx asks riddles. So, the combo of the three "animals" is a type of riddle. Isn't there someone nicknamed the sphinx? And a "sphinx" is a lion with a human head and breasts if female. You could regard Cersei as a sphinx.

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I'm looking forward to @sweetsunray take, but until she write up something on the subject, is Manannán a vague candidate for a mythological source for Euron?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manannán_mac_Lir

He certainly could be an inspiration. I would certainly also check out Poseidon, and any sea deity that has underworld/trickster elements. I would also advize to check out pirate myth and folklore such as Davey Jones, the Heart Locker, The Flying Dutchman, and Lovecraft for sure. Might want to check out the Argonaut voyage too. Certainly the tWoW chapter is full of underworldly subaquatic stuff.

Unfortunately I have other essays to work on for the moment + work, so can't get into it myself "in depth".

[Deepbollywood Motte]

51 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Isn't there someone nicknamed the sphinx?

Alleras, an acolyte of the citadel close to marwyn. He is probable oberyn's bastard daughter Sarella posing as a boy. Why is he called the sfinx? From the AFFC prologue: 'It had been Lazy Leo who dubbed Alleras "the Sphinx." A sphinx is a bit of this, a bit of that: a human face, the body of a lion, the wings of a hawk. Alleras was the same: his father was a Dornishman, his mother a black-skinned Summer Islander. His own skin was dark as teak. And like the green marble sphinxes that flanked the Citadel's main gate, Alleras had eyes of onyx.'

because you asked, not really important for the discussion. 

[Lord Varys]

11 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

He doesn't give a shit about the IT, it's just being used symbolically to represent domination and a lust for power and an understandable goal to sell his men. His goal is to become a literal god, not a king. He only needs an army/crown as a means to attract Dany, he only needs Dany as a means to his own Targaryen blooded child. The child he needs for sacrificial magic purposes in his search for ascendancy.

This is not the Malazan Book of the Fallen, nor Star Gate or some computer game. There are no Ascendants or literal gods in this series, and George has made it repeatedly clear that they won't show up.

Euron tortures his pious little brother with his blasphemy. But he isn't as mad as to believe that he is or can become a god. Although he certainly has the ambition and potential to become as powerful as he possibly can.

As to the question at hand:

Euron does indeed need military support from quite a few houses in Westeros to take and hold the Iron Throne. Once he has crushed the Redwyne fleet he will take the Arbor and an insane amount of wealth. He will also become the major naval power in Westeros. That is likely going to cause quite a few Reach houses - most likely the Hightowers included - to bend the knee to him if he ends up showing his smiling eye to them again. Their wealth is based on trade. If Euron cuts off Oldtown from the international trade through a naval blockade they will quickly bend the knee (assuming they get favorable terms). The Hightowers and other Lords of the Reach did that in the past, they can do it again.

But Euron's natural ally is Cersei. She has been ousted from power, and faces a lot of problems right now. The idea that she can defeat both Mace and Aegon with essentially no men of her own in KL is insane. That's not going to work. If she is not going to die she must look for other allies. And once the news of Dany's marriage to Hizdahr and her alleged death travel west Euron has to change his marriage plans (as has Aegon). He can't marry a dead woman. Cersei is the next best thing. She is the Lady of Casterly Rock, the richest person in Westeros who still commands a vast army of men if somebody gets around to marshal them.

And if Tommen and Myrcella happen to die soon Cersei will lose every possible restraint. She will want to see the world burn as much as Euron, perhaps even more. They would be the ideal couple.

Without an ally like Cersei Euron can't hope to succeed with his Iron Throne plan. He could become some sort of traveling corsair king who preys on the entire southern coast of Westeros with his huge navy but he could hold something he took. He very much knows this already. He doesn't care about those Shield Islands he took.

There is also the chance that - if Euron and Dany don't hook which seems reasonably likely to me - Euron's armada will later attack Daenerys' fleet on the way to Westeros and deal her a major blow. Euron could move east from the Arbor (and take out Sunspear on the way, to deal Aegon a blow) and forge an alliance with the Three Daughters against Daenerys. The combined strength of Euron and the Three Daughters should be more than a match for Daenerys' growing fleet (which is likely going to consist of the Iron Fleet, the Volantene armada, and whatever Ghiscari and Qartheen ships they take) even if we don't take Euron's magical powers into account.

If there is a Second Dance then Dany's cannot reach Westeros without being challenged and severely crippled on the way (in a fashion that forces the survivors to land at various spots along eastern or southern coast, perhaps). If that doesn't happen then Dany could just land at KL with her vast armada and take the Iron Throne. Whatever garrison Aegon or whoever would have at KL wouldn't be a match for her vast armada and huge army, especially not if we take all the Dothraki into account.

Whether Euron is going to survive that naval battle against Daenerys' forces is unclear. It could be a good and proper ending for him, or at least for his military and political powers.

That would leave the following rough sketch for Euron's story:

1. Victory over the Redwyne fleet and conquest of the Arbor.

2. Alliance with and marriage to Cersei Lannister after she leaves KL and he has received word/information that Daenerys Targaryen is either dead or delayed (he can marry Dany still later on; Cersei is not immortal).

3. A couple of orchestrated actions against Aegon. Say, the marshaling of a Lannister army to fight against Aegon and his allies (something Cersei might organize even before she leaves KL, then with the intention to have an army to march against the Tyrells), the destruction of Sunspear, and perhaps even a surprise attack on KL itself (while Aegon is off fighting elsewhere).

4. The realization that Daenerys is coming after all. A change in plans, perhaps, a split between Cersei and Euron. Euron leaves to try to win Dany's hand or destroy her at sea while Cersei remains in KL which is then retaken by a victorious Aegon and she is killed by Jaime.

5. Euron faces Daenerys in battle and deals her a major blow but is himself either killed or loses his power base (then he could come back later on to do some mischief in the fight against the Others).

I doubt we'll see the really disgusting villains in the final act of the story. People like Roose, Ramsay, Euron, Walder, Gregor, etc. are simply too untrustworthy to keep around in the final phase. Too many people would want to see them dead. The more insidious ones like Littlefinger might be able to stick around, though.