Robert Baratheon Surrounding himself with Lannisters

[MikeMartell]

I'm just wondering, after rewatching the first couple of episode from season 1, as to why exactly Robert surrounded himself with Lannister while maintain no Barateoon presence in KL apart from Renly and his men. There is never a mention of Robert having a household guard, or any form of Baratheon lurking about. 

 

I'm pretty sure it was like this aswell in the book, which is why I'm posting it here. 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

The city watch would presumably be made of non-Lannisters and Robert did have Jon Arryn, Stannis, and Renly there.  Presumably some of Stannis' men were there with him before Jon Arryn died.  Robert did recognize this issue and that's why he went and brought Ned in.  Also the Stormlands don't have as many men.  Someone who read the books a few more times than I have and also read the world book might know better.

[ravenous reader]

16 minutes ago, MikeMartell said:

I'm just wondering, after rewatching the first couple of episode from season 1, as to why exactly Robert surrounded himself with Lannisters...

I don't think it was so much a case of Trouserless Bob (as Black Crow likes to call him) 'surrounding himself with Lannisters,' as Lannisters themselves surrounding hapless, trouserless Bob!  Have you ever watched how a pride of lions will surround an animal they've singled out?  Bob's a deer in the headlights, but not so blind that he didn't recognise he'd sold out his integrity to the Lannisters; and that, in fact, the viability of his reign, financial and other, rested entirely on the continuing goodwill of the alpha lion, Tywin Lannister.  So he was not about to antagonise him -- while on the other hand he had antagonised perhaps the only person -- and a Baratheon to boot -- who could have actually saved his skin, namely his brother Stannis!

[Universal Sword Donor]

31 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

The city watch would presumably be made of non-Lannisters and Robert did have Jon Arryn, Stannis, and Renly there.  Presumably some of Stannis' men were there with him before Jon Arryn died.  Robert did recognize this issue and that's why he went and brought Ned in.  Also the Stormlands don't have as many men.  Someone who read the books a few more times than I have and also read the world book might know better.

Honestly it's just one of those things that is never really explained. When Ned talks to Renly and Robert around the time Robert dies, there is nary a hint of Baratheon guardsmen. Honestly I am not even sure we see Baratheon guardsmen in the first few books. I don't recall them being in Renly's camp or in KL.

[MikeMartell]

okay i get y'all. but is it safe to say Cat's actions boxed Eddard in? by taking tyrion and her other actons, ned had to do what he did.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

1 hour ago, MikeMartell said:

okay i get y'all. but is it safe to say Cat's actions boxed Eddard in? by taking tyrion and her other actons, ned had to do what he did.

Catelyn is among my least favorite characters.  She is so self righteous in her own bold foolish move which started a war and yet condescends big time to Robb and Edmure.  Ned would have been in a much better position to tell Robert about the twincest, then the two of them and Stannis kick some Lannister ass, Renly gets Robert to marry Margaery as he originally planned, and the 7 kingdoms live happily ever after.  But Catelyn forced it all early and gave Cersei time to get Robert killed and Jaime time to wound Ned.  And to get Lysa involved which involved Littlefinger.  All over some shit Tyrion didn't actually do.  Cat is very well and believably written as a POV but fuck she is awful.

[John Doe]

I think the Baratheon guardsmen might be part of the City Watch since they are the king's own men? It would at least explain their abscence in the books. 

[Kaibaman]

It could be because Robert was so lazy that he didn't pay attention to the day to day affairs of his household let alone the kingdom. This gave his in laws the opportunity to appoint their own people not only into positions of power but also into the royal household which included their household guards. Maybe had Robert was interested in making such important appointments, we may see more soldiers in the Red Keep wearing the stag on their coats rather than the Lannister red and yellow uniforms.

[BalerionTheCat]

I suppose Renly and Stannis had some personal guards. Ned, counting his allies:

Renly has thirty men in his personal guard, the rest even fewer. It is not enough, even if I could be certain that all of them will choose to give me their allegiance.

I suppose there were more before. But they all left with Renly, Loras, Stannis and Lady Arryn.

Ned himself had not brought many men from the North (and 20 left with Dondarrion):

A hand of beaten silver clutched the woolen folds of each cloak and marked their wearers as men of the Hand’s household guard. There were only fifty of them, so most of the benches were empty.

So it is more likely the Lannisters (Jaime or Cersei), predicting troubles, who had brought more than anyone else.

[Ser Meryn Frey]

Robert was the king and and had friends anywhere and everywhere in the capital. Why would he need a household guard?

[Bernie Mac]

Robert had spent as much time in the Vale and Kings Landing as he has done the Stormlands. Why should his personal guard be made up from that of the Stormlands?

The visitors poured through the castle gates in a river of gold and silver and polished steel, three hundred strong, a pride of bannermen and knights, of sworn swords and freeriders. Over their heads a dozen golden banners whipped back and forth in the northern wind, emblazoned with the crowned stag of Baratheon.

So he does have a personal guard. He brings an entourage of three hundred people to Winterfell, many of them Knights. We are just not introduced to them personally as Robert is not a POV character. But his personal guard, whether they are from the Crownlands, Vale or Stormlands, are going to be loyal to his wife and children as well. It is only reasonable that they would take their side after he died.  

[cpg2016]

On 6/22/2017 at 6:49 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Honestly it's just one of those things that is never really explained. When Ned talks to Renly and Robert around the time Robert dies, there is nary a hint of Baratheon guardsmen. Honestly I am not even sure we see Baratheon guardsmen in the first few books. I don't recall them being in Renly's camp or in KL.

Pretty sure this is because Cersei brings an honor guard with her, partly because she might expect trouble, but also because she considers herself a Lannister and not a Baratheon, and is proud to show it.  Those men are under her command, not Robert's, and she probably thought it prudent to have her own guard, given all the cuckolding and treason she's going on about.  it's a prestige thing, for both her and Tywin.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Pretty sure this is because Cersei brings an honor guard with her, partly because she might expect trouble, but also because she considers herself a Lannister and not a Baratheon, and is proud to show it.  Those men are under her command, not Robert's, and she probably thought it prudent to have her own guard, given all the cuckolding and treason she's going on about.  it's a prestige thing, for both her and Tywin.

That's largely irrelevant. The king and the two Baratheon royal princes should have liveried servants and household guards. We see them nowhere. We see them with literally every other LP or major lord.

[Angel Eyes]

On 6/22/2017 at 6:20 PM, ravenous reader said:

I don't think it was so much a case of Trouserless Bob (as Black Crow likes to call him) 'surrounding himself with Lannisters,' as Lannisters themselves surrounding hapless, trouserless Bob!  Have you ever watched how a pride of lions will surround an animal they've singled out?  Bob's a deer in the headlights, but not so blind that he didn't recognise he'd sold out his integrity to the Lannisters; and that, in fact, the viability of his reign, financial and other, rested entirely on the continuing goodwill of the alpha lion, Tywin Lannister.  So he was not about to antagonise him -- while on the other hand he had antagonised perhaps the only person -- and a Baratheon to boot -- who could have actually saved his skin, namely his brother Stannis!

Trouserless Bob. That's actually pretty funny.  Maybe King Bob realized that he was surrounded, then threw up his hands and didn't do anything.

[cpg2016]

2 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

That's largely irrelevant. The king and the two Baratheon royal princes should have liveried servants and household guards. We see them nowhere. We see them with literally every other LP or major lord.

We see the Kingsguard for Robert.  That is the traditional bodyguard for the king.

As for Renly, he seems to have a similar set of retainers to Ned while in Kings Landing.  Cersei's bodyguard is particularly large, probably due to her and Tywin's overweening pride in their House.

[snow is the man]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:59 PM, MikeMartell said:

okay i get y'all. but is it safe to say Cat's actions boxed Eddard in? by taking tyrion and her other actons, ned had to do what he did.

he could have not lied to jaime and admitted he didn't tell cat to take tyrion prisoner and he would bring tyrion to trial somewhere else. I do agrre that cat screwed him over on that and is the cause of the war

[Trigger Warning]

The ranks of Robert's Household guard probably just consist of the Kinsguard and Gold Cloaks plus his court full of lords and knights that surround him. Of course he could have had guards in his own livery but I don't think he'd care enough to go to the trouble, his household guard from Storm's End likely passed to Renly and Renly likely has them as well as retainers in King's Landing, we just have no reason for them to be highlighted. 

Regarding the show Bob actually does have Baratheon guards, the first men that ride into Winterfell, he's also surrounded by them when he eats with Ned in that field in Season 1, show isn't really meant to be discussed here though. 

[Angel Eyes]

13 minutes ago, cpg2016 said:

We see the Kingsguard for Robert.  That is the traditional bodyguard for the king.

As for Renly, he seems to have a similar set of retainers to Ned while in Kings Landing.  Cersei's bodyguard is particularly large, probably due to her and Tywin's overweening pride in their House.

Though Robert's Kingsguard isn't the most competent bunch, are they? It's not exactly made up of the Seven Kingdom's best swordsmen. Boros Blount is perhaps the worst offender in the books (changed to Meryn Trant for the show), Preston Greenfield not sure, but he got his ass killed in the King's Landing Riots, nobody knows anything about Mandon Moore, Just to give examples.

[cpg2016]

31 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Though Robert's Kingsguard isn't the most competent bunch, are they? It's not exactly made up of the Seven Kingdom's best swordsmen. Boros Blount is perhaps the worst offender in the books (changed to Meryn Trant for the show), Preston Greenfield not sure, but he got his ass killed in the King's Landing Riots, nobody knows anything about Mandon Moore, Just to give examples.

Right, which is because Cersei is allowed to appoint them and she appoints idiots and lickspittles.

Mandon Moore and Preston Greenfield are considered competent warriors who deserve the cloak.  Blount clearly isn't.  Jaime may be a traitor, but he's one of the finest fighters in the realm and his sister is the Queen.  Selmy is Selmy.  Arys Oakheart is considered a good warrior as well.

So that's six of seven who are, if not paragons of virtue, worthy of the White Cloak.  Cersei is responsible for the bad appointments.

[DarkBastard]

It is also interesting to note that both male (supposed Baratheon) heirs to the Iron Throne are named after Lannisters.  

Joffrey I was the first Andal king of Casterly Rock (Ser Joffrey Lydden), taking the Lannister name with the marriage to Gerold III's only daughter after Gerold died without a male heir.

Tommen I was another King of the Rock, a shipbuilder famous for bringing Fair Isle into the realm.

It is curious that these two children would be named after Lannister Kings rather than historic Baratheons.  Robert was many things, but not meek.  When combined with the golden hair (which somehow went unnoticed by the King-and everyone else), seems vexing.  I think Robert knew or at the very least suspected foul play with the Lannisters, but the timing of that realization left him impotent to action.  Tywin had a stranglehold on him, and his only escape was to whore and drink himself to an early grave.  

I think there is more to the story, and the readers may find out if a book about Lord Varys is ever realized...