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Theory about Dunk


Kenton Stark

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I have a theory or maybe just a gut instinct about Duncan the Tall.  I want to throw it out there and see what the forum thinks of it and since many of you are much more familiar with ASOIAF than I am, maybe it will spark an idea for some actual textual evidence or plausibility for the theory.

I think that MANY of the characters in the current series are decedents of Duncan the Tall. Including some members of the great families. I think GRRM would enjoy the fact that a lot of the most prestigious families in the serious, the ones that are so caught up in pure bloodlines, are descended from an orphan from flea bottom.

Similar to the way GRRM has written Dunk and Brienne to be the ones that most embody knighthood virtues, yet they aren't really knights. While its commonly thought that Hodor and Brienne are most likely decedents of Dunk, I think there are several more hiding in plain sight. I like the possibility that Tytos Lannister born in 220 was the son of Dunk and Lady Webber.  I think GRRM would enjoy having Tywin be the grandson of flea bottom orphan. There is a theory ( not mine) that Old Nan is Rohanne Webber Lannister. Just as Arya used Nan as an alias, Rohanne Webber did as well.

I think its possible they hooked up sometime while she was still at CR, became pregnant with Tytos and eventually went north. I also don't think its a coincidence  that while Dunk and Egg ago north to join the service of Beron Stark, after he dies there is a succession crisis between his wife and four other Stark widows. I like the idea that Dunk may have had an encounter with one of the widows and she gave birth to his son. Who the current Starks descend from. Hopefully "The She-Wolves of Winterfell" will enlighten us.

Again, with his travels all over the realm, the timeline and family histories that have been provided and sometimes suspiciously omitted combined with GRRM turning tropes askew I really like this idea.

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

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I think that this a great thought in the sense of "awwww that'd be neat" but in GRRM/s narrative themes, it just wouldn't fit.  

I think it's most likely that Brienne is a descendant of Dunk.  And possibly even members of House Clegane have some of the Dunk DNA, which would be great since Sandor Clegane ALSO isn't a knight, yet does some of the most chivalrous and evil deeds within the series.  And he and Brienne actually mirror each other.  The world both sees them as freaks, and they are shunned. Both disdain knights yet are the most loyal people in the book basically.  

 

I don't think any of the Great Houses are descended from him, though

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I think Hodor probably descends from a dalliance he had with not-yet-Old Nan (although I doubt he'll ever find out she was pregnant), and that Brienne's line is the product of Egg's sister being quickly married off to Lord Tarth after falling pregnant with Dunk's child. I don't really see him being the ancestor of anyone else, but anything's possible at this point. 

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50 minutes ago, Kenton Stark said:

I have a theory or maybe just a gut instinct about Duncan the Tall.  I want to throw it out there and see what the forum thinks of it and since many of you are much more familiar with ASOIAF than I am, maybe it will spark an idea for some actual textual evidence or plausibility for the theory.

I think that MANY of the characters in the current series are decedents of Duncan the Tall. Including some members of the great families. I think GRRM would enjoy the fact that a lot of the most prestigious families in the serious, the ones that are so caught up in pure bloodlines, are descended from an orphan from flea bottom.

Similar to the way GRRM has written Dunk and Brienne to be the ones that most embody knighthood virtues, yet they aren't really knights. While its commonly thought that Hodor and Brienne are most likely decedents of Dunk, I think there are several more hiding in plain sight. I like the possibility that Tytos Lannister born in 220 was the son of Dunk and Lady Webber.  I think GRRM would enjoy having Tywin be the grandson of flea bottom orphan. There is a theory ( not mine) that Old Nan is Rohanne Webber Lannister. Just as Arya used Nan as an alias, Rohanne Webber did as well.

I think its possible they hooked up sometime while she was still at CR, became pregnant with Tytos and eventually went north. I also don't think its a coincidence  that while Dunk and Egg ago north to join the service of Beron Stark, after he dies there is a succession crisis between his wife and four other Stark widows. I like the idea that Dunk may have had an encounter with one of the widows and she gave birth to his son. Who the current Starks descend from. Hopefully "The She-Wolves of Winterfell" will enlighten us.

Again, with his travels all over the realm, the timeline and family histories that have been provided and sometimes suspiciously omitted combined with GRRM turning tropes askew I really like this idea.

Any thoughts?

 The descendants are Hodor and Brienne. 

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1 hour ago, OberynBlackfyre said:

I think that this a great thought in the sense of "awwww that'd be neat" but in GRRM/s narrative themes, it just wouldn't fit.  

I think it's most likely that Brienne is a descendant of Dunk.  And possibly even members of House Clegane have some of the Dunk DNA, which would be great since Sandor Clegane ALSO isn't a knight, yet does some of the most chivalrous and evil deeds within the series.  And he and Brienne actually mirror each other.  The world both sees them as freaks, and they are shunned. Both disdain knights yet are the most loyal people in the book basically.  

 

I don't think any of the Great Houses are descended from him, though

 I like the Sandor idea. I know its almost a given that Brienne and Hodor are his decedents, But I can't shake the feeling that there is more. I think that's another reason for the delay in the Dunk and Egg releases as well as the reason GRRM didn't want HBO to do a D & E series because their are too many important things in the series that he did not want the show to reveal before he released the written versions.  I know Summerhall is the big reveal, but I think there are many tasty morsels to come before we get to that.  

I hadn't really thought of it before, but Dunk was almost 70 when he died. About half of that time in the Kingsguard. That's a lot time travelling with the future king as his best friend and squire and then decades guarding him when he became king. He travel over much of the Kingdom and met many historical figures in just the three novellas when have so far. If he was bold enough to father a child with the King's daughter ( as many think)or sister depending on if Egg was king at the time, he certainly would have been brave enough to father children on women from the great house that he met.

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I think Dunk's relationship with Egg's sister will be played as more of a tragic romance than a one-night stand. If she kept his shield for all those years afterwards, I'm guessing she must have cared about him.

I've seen readers speculate that Dunk will become a womanizer, but that doesn't seem consistent with the man we've known for the past three novellas. GRRM also doesn't seem to really be all that interested in writing that type of character. Of all the POVs we've seen, most of the men are the dutiful kind (Ned, Quentyn) or are a bit of a tragic romantic pining after one woman (Jaime, Jon, Sam). The only lady-killers whose heads we get inside of are really Tyrion and Theon, the former of whom is more desperate for affection than anything else. So while I do think Dunk will have a few relationships, I don't think he'll  be the new Garth Greenhand, if you get what I'm saying. 

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I'm sure about Brienne and Hodor. Well, as sure as I can be with Martin... I suppose there could be more. The Clegane brothers usually come up in these discussions but there aren't any real hints other than their height. But I'll admit I'm not crazy about the idea that Dunk and the Mountain are related in any way, shape or form. 

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9 hours ago, Kenton Stark said:

decedents of Duncan the Tall.

I'm pretty sure you mean "descendent". A decedent is a dead person.

I, too, dispute the Clegane theory. After all, there are lots of really tall people in Westeros and they can't ALL be descendents of Duncan of Flea Bottom. The Umbers, whose sigil is a roaring giant (and not Duncan). The Baratheons. Even the cursed Kettleblacks are described as being nearly as tall as the Hound. (With many similar features; wonder if Cersei subconsciously missed 'the family dog').

Hodor and Brienne for sure, though - it is written.

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On Invalid Date at 4:44 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

... while I do think Dunk will have a few relationships, I don't think he'll  be the new Garth Greenhand, if you get what I'm saying. 

I think Garth and the legends surrounding him are the place to look, if you want to pursue this idea, @Kenton Stark. It would not surprise me if the Garth model was used over again, and Dunk would be a good candidate, given his travels around the realm and his access to high-born people through his association with Egg.

In a thread a year or two ago, someone examining the bonus material in the first AGoT DVD brought up the idea that the image of Lann the Clever might be a pregnant woman. It seems that the Lannister dynasty began when Lann the Clever infiltrated House Caster, resulting in a takeover of Casterly Rock. It would be poetic justice if Rohanne Webber infiltrated House Lannister via a strategic marriage and gave birth to a new bloodline as a result of an affair with a non-Lannister. (I realized that DVD material is not canon, but there seems to be some deliberate clue-dropping in that animated history on the first DVD, and it does seem as if the author might have helped to provide some background to help viewers sort out the characters in the show. Also interesting are hand images at the end of each segment about the great houses.)

If you're looking at symbols for support for your theory, Dunk does cut Rohanne Webber's hair. Because of the hair / heir pun, there could be something meaningful going on around Rohanne's heirs and Dunk. (Of course, if all haircuts are meaningful, you'd have to look at Cersei being shaved by the Septas and at Arya getting a haircut from Yoren before she hides in his caravan heading north from King's Landing.)

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On Invalid Date at 1:30 PM, Seams said:

I think Garth and the legends surrounding him are the place to look, if you want to pursue this idea, @Kenton Stark. It would not surprise me if the Garth model was used over again, and Dunk would be a good candidate, given his travels around the realm and his access to high-born people through his association with Egg.

In a thread a year or two ago, someone examining the bonus material in the first AGoT DVD brought up the idea that the image of Lann the Clever might be a pregnant woman. It seems that the Lannister dynasty began when Lann the Clever infiltrated House Caster, resulting in a takeover of Casterly Rock. It would be poetic justice if Rohanne Webber infiltrated House Lannister via a strategic marriage and gave birth to a new bloodline as a result of an affair with a non-Lannister. (I realized that DVD material is not canon, but there seems to be some deliberate clue-dropping in that animated history on the first DVD, and it does seem as if the author might have helped to provide some background to help viewers sort out the characters in the show. Also interesting are hand images at the end of each segment about the great houses.)

If you're looking at symbols for support for your theory, Dunk does cut Rohanne Webber's hair. Because of the hair / heir pun, there could be something meaningful going on around Rohanne's heirs and Dunk. (Of course, if all haircuts are meaningful, you'd have to look at Cersei being shaved by the Septas and at Arya getting a haircut from Yoren before she hides in his caravan heading north from King's Landing.)

This is kind of what was forming in my mind. I hadn't really thought about the Garth Greenhand connection. But there is a theory that the figures from the age of heroes are versions of current characters that we know.

For example, Jon is the last hero. Tyrion is Lann the clever using his wits to get Casterly Rock. Especially his knowledge of the sewer system and drains and Bran is the legendary Bran the builder. Euron is the Grey King, Dany is the emerald emphrs.  etc. Mark Twain said "History may not repeat, but it does rhyme."  If this theory is true then ASOIAF could be repeating or rhyming. The stories have changed over time due to verbally being passed down through the ages. I know there are a lot of missing pieces to the theory, but I have a feeling there is something to it. I hadn't really thought about Dunk representing/ being/ or an incarnation of garth. Great food for thought.

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