different paths?

[Graydon Hicks]

now, im positing this posting under the assumption that jon is the son of rhaegar, whether legitimate or not doesnt matter. but might ned have done differently? pick any time you wish, be it at the trident, the tower of joy, gong south as the new Hand, when ever, what do you think ned could have done differently to come to a "better" outcome? like, what if he went to highgarden with an infant jon, after lyanna died, and had a talk with olenna? or sent jon off to squire under someone when jon was a boy? or told cat who jon was when he brought him back to riverrun? or brought him south to kings landing?

or what if ned didnt go south, or turned back at the trident when lady was killed? or maybe tried to help daenerys from afar, because he saw how bad robert was as king? tried to betroth sansa to someone in the north, before bobby boy came up with the idea to betrothing her to joff? or didnt try to warn cersie about his knowldge of her crimes, but did something with more common sense?

just some suggestions i can come up with off the top of my head, if you have other ones, please share.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

like, what if he went to highgarden with an infant jon, after lyanna died, and had a talk with olenna?

The Tyrells would had given Jon to Tywin.

2 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

or maybe tried to help daenerys from afar, because he saw how bad robert was as king?

Dany was married with someone far worse than Robert and at the end of the day there is no reason why Ned should helped her.

or told cat who jon was when he brought him back to riverrun?

Cat could not be trusted.

 

In any case I don't understand the question. You basically ask for ideas about something? Your question isn't clear.

[BalerionTheCat]

The thing I understand the less is why Ned didn't tell Robert when he was dying. If he was so sure of his case to accuse Cersei. Anyway, she had her warning and ignored it. It would have been hard for Robert, but he deserved it. He could have legitimized Edric Storm or declared Stannis his heir. But with Cersei gone and the Lannisters put to shame, things would have gone better.

[Damsel in Distress]

5 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

now, im positing this posting under the assumption that jon is the son of rhaegar, whether legitimate or not doesnt matter. but might ned have done differently? pick any time you wish, be it at the trident, the tower of joy, gong south as the new Hand, when ever, what do you think ned could have done differently to come to a "better" outcome? like, what if he went to highgarden with an infant jon, after lyanna died, and had a talk with olenna? or sent jon off to squire under someone when jon was a boy? or told cat who jon was when he brought him back to riverrun? or brought him south to kings landing?

or what if ned didnt go south, or turned back at the trident when lady was killed? or maybe tried to help daenerys from afar, because he saw how bad robert was as king? tried to betroth sansa to someone in the north, before bobby boy came up with the idea to betrothing her to joff? or didnt try to warn cersie about his knowldge of her crimes, but did something with more common sense?

just some suggestions i can come up with off the top of my head, if you have other ones, please share.

The boy is definitely a bastard.  He would be snubbed in the Reach and Ned could get an unfriendly reception.  The Tyrells are loyal to the Targaryens. 

[elder brother jonothor dar]

I think Ned did not go far enough to protect Jon, I think he should have kept him in an alcove under one of the stairs possibly in the crypts.

Once Jon approaches his teens ravens start appearing addressed to him under the stairs, Ned moves him to the smallest room in the castle and continues to ignore subsequent ravens

One day Varamyr sixskins comes knocking on the door demanding that Jon accompany him beyond the wall to learn the ways of warging.

Robert has abdicated the throne many years ago as being king was not as much fun as he hopped leaving Tywin to rule through his grandson.  The 7 kingdoms have a peaceful and prosperous rule, Dany settles down with Drogo no assassination attempt and all live happily and do not concern the rest of our improved story.

 

Robert now teaches in the wildling school and takes an immediate disliking to Jon, constantly deducting points from house Stark and awarding his own house extra points.

Jon and his friends have many adventures, but disturbing secrets about his past start to be uncovered.  Jons parents were killed whilst fighting the great other (Rhaegar never left the ToJ to battle Robert) The great other knew of AA reborn and wanted to kill Jon as a baby; Lyanna sacrificed herself to save Jon and the great Other was thought destroyed.

In the next book Jon will warg the dying Robert and discover that Robert loved his mother and was protecting him this whole time, but hated Jon because he reminded him of Rheagar who once saved Robert from being eaten by a direwolf Ned had locked in a Harrenhall.

 

[TMIFairy]

elder brother jonothor dar

 

You got it!

[Tyg Doggett]

40 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

I think Ned did not go far enough to protect Jon, I think he should have kept him in an alcove under one of the stairs possibly in the crypts.

Once Jon approaches his teens ravens start appearing addressed to him under the stairs, Ned moves him to the smallest room in the castle and continues to ignore subsequent ravens

One day Varamyr sixskins comes knocking on the door demanding that Jon accompany him beyond the wall to learn the ways of warging.

Robert has abdicated the throne many years ago as being king was not as much fun as he hopped leaving Tywin to rule through his grandson.  The 7 kingdoms have a peaceful and prosperous rule, Dany settles down with Drogo no assassination attempt and all live happily and do not concern the rest of our improved story.

 

Robert now teaches in the wildling school and takes an immediate disliking to Jon, constantly deducting points from house Stark and awarding his own house extra points.

Jon and his friends have many adventures, but disturbing secrets about his past start to be uncovered.  Jons parents were killed whilst fighting the great other (Rhaegar never left the ToJ to battle Robert) The great other knew of AA reborn and wanted to kill Jon as a baby; Lyanna sacrificed herself to save Jon and the great Other was thought destroyed.

In the next book Jon will warg the dying Robert and discover that Robert loved his mother and was protecting him this whole time, but hated Jon because he reminded him of Rheagar who once saved Robert from being eaten by a direwolf Ned had locked in a Harrenhall.

When Ned is recruited into the army, he sends Jon, along with Sansa, Arya and Bran, to the house of Maester Aemon. One day, Bran discovers a Wardrobe that is actually a passage to the kingdom Beyond the Wall. He meets a goat-man called Vargo and learns that the kingdom is under the Winter spell of the evil King Other. Later, Sansa is seduced by the king (who gives her lemon cakes) and captured. In order to rescue her the other three make na alliance with Tywin, the Great Lion, and defeat Other in the battlefield. Also, Jon receives a valyrian steel sword called Brightroar, Arya a bow and a dragon horn and Bran a valyrian steel dagger. On the end, they are crowned as Kings-Beyond-the-Wall in the four thrones of Hardhome, and rule for years until they came back to their side of the Wall while hunting.

One year later, they travel to Beyond the Wall again, and help Prince Joffrey to claim is throne, stolen by his evil uncle Stannis and his horrible queen, Selyse. They have help from a blond dwarf (which, in the movie adaptation, is portrayed by Peter Dinklage). Once more, Tywin saves the day, even if he spends most of his time near a river. As king, Joffrey is able to unite the Andals and the Children of the Forest.

Another year, another adventure. This time, Sansa and Bran go with Joffrey on a sea travel, along with their nasty cousin Robert and a mad mouse called Shadrich. Their ship is the Selaesori Qhoran.

[Curled Finger]

A better outcome to what exactly?   Jon was raised better than most bastards, certainly better than any small folk.   The Targs had been deposed and exiled.   There was no where better to send Jon or the secret of his parentage.    There is that promise as well.   For all I know that promise could have been to raise Jon as a Stark.   Ned was torn in many directions at the end of Robert's rebellion.   He was newly wed and fathered by Cat.   Duty.   He had a newborn nephew to protect.  Family.   He was the best friend of the king who approved of the savage killing of Rhaegar's children.   Honor.   Who could he trust?   Who would you trust?   The Tyrells are shameless climbers.   Dorne required a visit from the Hand of the new King to restore them to the king's peace.   The Riverlands were Ned's wife's folks.   The Westerlands were run by Tywin Lannister.   There was no known safe place in the Vale with Jon Arryn serving as Hand.   The Stormlands were Robert's lands, along with Dragonstone and the Crownlands.   Another North house?   Which one?   Who would Ned, as Warden of the North, risk that sort of danger to? 

All in all things worked out well for Jon.   Allowing Jon to join the NW allowed Ned to further protect him.   Brothers are unable to hold lands or titles.   Bastards have opportunity based on merit.   Jon joined the watch as a Stark raised bastard.   It would have been difficult for Jon not to do well in the NW.  What says the plan wasn't for Rickon to join further down the line too, as a 3rd son?  

I think Ned's plan was for Jon to never ever know the truth of his parentage.   Jon was to be his bastard son, nothing more or less.  

[StarkofWinterfell]

2 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

I think Ned did not go far enough to protect Jon, I think he should have kept him in an alcove under one of the stairs possibly in the crypts.

Once Jon approaches his teens ravens start appearing addressed to him under the stairs, Ned moves him to the smallest room in the castle and continues to ignore subsequent ravens

One day Varamyr sixskins comes knocking on the door demanding that Jon accompany him beyond the wall to learn the ways of warging.

Robert has abdicated the throne many years ago as being king was not as much fun as he hopped leaving Tywin to rule through his grandson.  The 7 kingdoms have a peaceful and prosperous rule, Dany settles down with Drogo no assassination attempt and all live happily and do not concern the rest of our improved story.

 

Robert now teaches in the wildling school and takes an immediate disliking to Jon, constantly deducting points from house Stark and awarding his own house extra points.

Jon and his friends have many adventures, but disturbing secrets about his past start to be uncovered.  Jons parents were killed whilst fighting the great other (Rhaegar never left the ToJ to battle Robert) The great other knew of AA reborn and wanted to kill Jon as a baby; Lyanna sacrificed herself to save Jon and the great Other was thought destroyed.

In the next book Jon will warg the dying Robert and discover that Robert loved his mother and was protecting him this whole time, but hated Jon because he reminded him of Rheagar who once saved Robert from being eaten by a direwolf Ned had locked in a Harrenhall.

 

Sounds vaguely familiar. Where have I read something like this before?

[snow is the man]

8 hours ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

The Tyrells would had given Jon to Tywin.

Dany was married with someone far worse than Robert and at the end of the day there is no reason why Ned should helped her.

Cat could not be trusted.

 

In any case I don't understand the question. You basically ask for ideas about something? Your question isn't clear.

He didn't know dany had planned to wed drogo until weeks or maybe months after he got to kings landing. I think it would be more of a case that he didn't think she had a chance and remember it would have been her brother not her

[Graydon Hicks]

keep discussing. say ned actually executed gregor and loche when he saw they did? what might happen then? or had already promised sansa to someone else before robert came north? like to another northern house to another family he trusted other provinces, like the royces or redforts? did he speak to renly about cersie? stannis knew, but did renly, what if ned told him, and they worked something out?

im trying to propose points where ned might have made another choice than what he did in canon, and what the possible effects of that different choice might be.

[LordScattergood10]

The best place for jon was exactly where he was being raised as a stark. I really wish he didn't join the nw and was able to march south with Robb. It would have been really interesting to see what would have happened if he went south with ned but then he probably would have died with everyone else.

One thing I always thought would have been way too cool would be if ned disgusted with Roberts pathetic rule, the obvious flaws in the crowned prince, and the fact that it is only a matter of time until the crown virtually becomes a lannister crown and plots to crown jon as rheagars and lyannas son. I always thought it would have been really cool not seeing a bride that helps robbs future rule; sneaks dany in the north protected by the north and marries robb to dany. 

[TMIFairy]

Regardless if RLJ or not, Ned should had told Catelyn (and later Jon), that Jon's mother was dead. Of course, if she actually was dead

That would had dialed back Catelyn's dislike of the adorable little grease haired emo prince 

[Lady Char]

Ned sacrificed and made compromises. The Stark words may be "Winter is Coming" but Ned was the epitome of "Family Duty Honor". Every choice we see him make has to do with protecting his family, fulfilling his duty, and upholding his idea of honor. In that way, I don't think there are many choices of his I would change. This was his path. However, I have a hard time making the same justifications for Catelyn. I lay awake at night wondering, "whyyy did she do this"...

[Graydon Hicks]

i just wonder if ned done something different, even if a small change, that might have kept him alive, or sansa out of joffrey's hands for so long, or where robb didnt make some of his mistakes, politically. like, if ned simply had jory collect sansa, not give her the chance to tattle to the queen, then maybe the starks could have gotten out of KL before the lannisters were ready. or if he simply turned around at teh inn of the crossing, when cersie demanded that one of the direwolves be killed? i read a fic were he did just that, after he killed lady, and the whole way back, he berated himself for not simply ignoring the order, and then going home, but he still went home, jon came back from the wall before he takes the vows, robert makes brynden tully his hand, and shit still hit the fan, but with ned being named king in the north, rather than robb.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 25/6/2017 at 11:41 PM, snow is the man said:

He didn't know dany had planned to wed drogo until weeks or maybe months after he got to kings landing. I think it would be more of a case that he didn't think she had a chance and remember it would have been her brother not her

Can you explain what you mean?

[snow is the man]

59 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

Can you explain what you mean?

If you mean the drogo part of what I said then I was responding to what someone said when they said that dany was married to someone far worse then robert. Ned didn't know about that wedding until he got to kings landing.  And I can't remember what I meant by he didn't think she would have a chance since I doubt he wanted the targeryans back. Now as for the part anout it being her brother you have to remember that visery's (or however you spell his name) was the one who would rule the 7 kingdoms if the targeryeans took over again at that time. Remember dany was just a meek little girl at that time. And her brother would take be the king not her

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, snow is the man said:

And her brother would take be the king not her

That is not true. She had told that her son would had been the King. Which means that she was planning to usurp Viserys' throne.

[snow is the man]

7 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

That is not true. She had told that her son would had been the King. Which means that she was planning to usurp Viserys' throne.

No the deal was to put her brother on the throne. But that is irrelevant because at the time ned had no idea that dany was gonna be sold to the dothraki or married to one of their khals.  This is based on ned turning around after lady was killed and going back to winterfell which is what the first post was about. At that time ned and robert just thought dany and her brother were hiding with a cheesemonger.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, snow is the man said:

No the deal was to put her brother on the throne. But that is irrelevant because at the time ned had no idea that dany was gonna be sold to the dothraki or married to one of their khals.  This is based on ned turning around after lady was killed and going back to winterfell which is what the first post was about. At that time ned and robert just thought dany and her brother were hiding with a cheesemonger.

There is a differense about what the deal was and what she was planning to do. The fact that she wanted to usurp Viserys' throne is clear from the text.