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Will Cersei try to have kids?


Sanrast

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The Lanisters always talk about that "family is everything", especially Tywin as we remember in that scene while he skined that deer. He said to Jaimy "i will die, you will die, it's the family name that will live on".

So I find it strange that Cersei had an ambition to be Queen with all her kids dead. Considering the importance that the Lannisters take on the descendants, it's futile to be King/Queen without heirs. So it has left me wondering if Cersei will try to make more kids, either with marriage or without in order to have someone to pass the tilte of King to. 

It's the same argument I have with the House of Cards tv-show. I find it strange that Frank and Claire Undwewoos are obsessed to get power, but at the same time they don't want to have kids. It's seems unnatural. In real world every person who wants power, want to have offsprings to inherit this power. 

P.S. English is not my first language, I hope the post made sense.

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I'm with @snow is the man here - Cersei eventually grew to see her children as things that made her vulnerable.  I wouldn't expect her to have more children unless she wanted to have them with Jaime, as several times they reference how if the Targaryens could do it then the Lannisters should be able to as well (in reference to legitimized incest).  But more so than securing her future legacy, I think Cersei is just hell-bent on making everyone in King's Landing who mocked her during her walk of shame pay for it.  Which is sort of ironic, since Tyrion really wanted to make everyone in King's Landing who mocked him as hand and during the trial for Joff's murder pay for it, so they have a lot in common.  Tyrion though I think will be more practical and forgiving about it.

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3 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I'm with @snow is the man here - Cersei eventually grew to see her children as things that made her vulnerable.  I wouldn't expect her to have more children unless she wanted to have them with Jaime, as several times they reference how if the Targaryens could do it then the Lannisters should be able to as well (in reference to legitimized incest).  But more so than securing her future legacy, I think Cersei is just hell-bent on making everyone in King's Landing who mocked her during her walk of shame pay for it.  Which is sort of ironic, since Tyrion really wanted to make everyone in King's Landing who mocked him as hand and during the trial for Joff's murder pay for it, so they have a lot in common.  Tyrion though I think will be more practical and forgiving about it.

That and tyrion would not have had someone go out and slaughter them on mass

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On 6/26/2017 at 2:29 PM, Sanrast said:

The Lanisters always talk about that "family is everything", especially Tywin as we remember in that scene while he skined that deer. He said to Jaimy "i will die, you will die, it's the family name that will live on".

So I find it strange that Cersei had an ambition to be Queen with all her kids dead. Considering the importance that the Lannisters take on the descendants, it's futile to be King/Queen without heirs. So it has left me wondering if Cersei will try to make more kids, either with marriage or without in order to have someone to pass the tilte of King to. 

It's the same argument I have with the House of Cards tv-show. I find it strange that Frank and Claire Undwewoos are obsessed to get power, but at the same time they don't want to have kids. It's seems unnatural. In real world every person who wants power, want to have offsprings to inherit this power. 

P.S. English is not my first language, I hope the post made sense.

interesting thread.  My thoughts:

(a)  I'm confident Cersei won't live long enough to have any more kids.

(b)  You say that in the "real world" everyone who wants power wants kids??? Uh, not in my opinion or experience.  I know people who are very interested in acquiring power (especially in the form of money, which is a form of power), but have NO interest in having kids, ever.  Some people want to have toys to play with (things that can be bought with money), and couldn't care less that when they are gone their legacy is...nothing.

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Some people who desire power may consider having children to be a weakness. Cersei considers love a weakness, after all. I imagine those who do still want to leave a legacy find comfort in the idea of choosing an heir to their power or wealth that they believe will continue that legacy.

I figure House Lannister is now the Royal House in Cersei's mind, and that if she died childless she'd be succeeded by the Lannister heir. I guess Janei Lannister, if she exists in the show - Cersei could essentially adopt her, raise her as her protege and then find her a marriage she approves of. I really doubt the show will address this though, just as I doubt they'll bring in Horas Redwyne or whoever should be the Lord of Highgarden now. 

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On 2017. 06. 26. at 8:29 PM, Sanrast said:

The Lanisters always talk about that "family is everything", especially Tywin as we remember in that scene while he skined that deer. He said to Jaimy "i will die, you will die, it's the family name that will live on".

So I find it strange that Cersei had an ambition to be Queen with all her kids dead. Considering the importance that the Lannisters take on the descendants, it's futile to be King/Queen without heirs. So it has left me wondering if Cersei will try to make more kids, either with marriage or without in order to have someone to pass the tilte of King to. 

It's the same argument I have with the House of Cards tv-show. I find it strange that Frank and Claire Undwewoos are obsessed to get power, but at the same time they don't want to have kids. It's seems unnatural. In real world every person who wants power, want to have offsprings to inherit this power. 

P.S. English is not my first language, I hope the post made sense.

No, I definitely do not think Cersei will try to have more kids. 

Accepting the Cersei character as it is: 

Cersei doesn't care. She is not Tywin, she never was. She doesn't care about family, she doesn't care about legacy. She cares about herself. She had been on the passenger seat all her life because she is a woman. She was Robert's queen, Tywin's daughter, Joffrey's mother. She was never number one. She told Sansa (? - not sure of that) how she was treated differently than Jaime as a kid, she asked Tywin if he ever considered that she was his heir (and he told her he didn't listen to her because she isn't as smart as she thinks and not because she is a woman), she told Robert that she should wear the armor and he the gown. The only people Cersei kinda cared about and put first were her kids out of basic instinct. If she could have chosen how to feel about them I'm sure she wouldn't have cared about them either. But now Robert's gone, and Tywin's gone and Kevan's gone  and her kids are gone and finally it's just her and nobody stands between her and what she wants. She's not going to spoil that by producing tiny people to before herself again. 

Then, there's the prophecy about her three kids and their deaths. I'm sure Cersei believes that enough to not want another partly because she doesn't think she could have one and partly because that might die too. 

Also, I would like to see her try, according to Joffrey, Jaime was 40 in season 3/beginning of season 4. That puts Cersei at 44ish in season 7. It's the Middle Ages. Come on. 

Acknowledging the plot holes: 

not anybody inside the show or at the writing table seems to give a single crap about the fact that medieval rulers need succession. I do not believe that anybody gave any thought to who (and how and why) would succeed Cersei, because the only point of that storyline was its coolness and "empowering" factor. At this point there seems to be no plan for how Cersei intends to be queen (who supports her, who succeeds her, etc) and the writing is all about this is cool so let's roll with it. Maybe because they are shallow and didnt even consider these details might matter, or maybe because they are lazy and they know Cersei will die sooner or later so why bother with a succession plan. Either way, this is very unrealistic and you are right. Cersei should be thinking about who will succeed her, or if she doesn't care for the reasons listed above, she should at least pretend that she does, because realistically everybody around her (court, other houses, councils, citadel, iron bank, etc) should care. 

 Your English is just fine and the best way to improve it even more is to use it and not care if it's fine or not. I'm sure my English burns the eyes of native speakers too,  but I don't care (*evil laugh* - just kidding) 

 

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Thanks for the replies everybody. Yeah as some of you said, even in real world there are people who want power but not children. Maybe it's me who can't understand it. My mind can't comprehend of wanting power but not caring (or wanting) to have kids. It seems futile.

This is not an attack to people who don't have kids or anything like that. Because they might want to contribute to society, or having hobbies, or adopt or whatever. I respect those people. 

It's the people who crave and lust power but not wanting kids, that my brain can't comprohend. Because it seems like half-Darwinism. You want the "survival of the fittest" (thirst for power) but not to reproduce your genes? 

 

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10 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Also, I would like to see her try, according to Joffrey, Jaime was 40 in season 3/beginning of season 4. That puts Cersei at 44ish in season 7. It's the Middle Ages. Come on. 

My great grandmother was 44 when she had my grandfather, miracles happen. Cersei's not gone through the menopause yet, she's well fed, and it's plausible that in the Middle Ages a healthy, fertile woman who did well with childbirth and had a long lived husband would continue popping out babies up to her menopause. 

Don't some of the leaks say Cersei will be getting pregnant this season? There are a few hints in the books that could foreshadow this, and there she's only mid to late 30s, which is very possible. So it could be a book plot point they're adapting. 

9 hours ago, Sanrast said:

 

It's the people who crave and lust power but not wanting kids, that my brain can't comprohend. Because it seems like half-Darwinism. You want the "survival of the fittest" (thirst for power) but not to reproduce your genes? 

 

I understand where you're coming from. In Cersei's case and for some people I think it's that they just don't care about what comes after them, they want comfort and power in their own life. I want children, but my primary motivation for having a good career is to create a life I enjoy. 

If you'd like an evolutionary argument, humans are social creatures and we evolved in extended family groups. It's also a bit more complicated that just passing on your own genes; your genes would already be represented within the extended family group to some degree, so if you're infertile, post menopausal, unwilling to procreate through a lack of attraction to the other sex, you could still contribute to the survival of your genes by helping the group as a whole, or adopting orphaned children who would otherwise die. You see with birds; same-sex bird pairings are fairly common, and those that live in colonies, such as sea birds, often adopt and raise orphaned eggs. It's probably just a parenting instinct, but if a bird pairing can't reproduce, they can at least contribute to the survival of their genes by raising a chick in the colony that would otherwise die, and that would probably be related to some degree to them. They'll not factor in the degree of relation in any conscious way, but the evolutionary mechanism driving it is the probability that it is related to some degree. If we bring this back to Cersei, and people who want power or wealth but don't care about heirs, the subconscious evolutionary drive is to continue to be successful, it may just be that she lacks the drive to actually reproduce, that she sees it as futile, that she doesn't care about the future, but the subconscious drive to be successful is there, even if she's missing the drive to help her own genes. This drive may be "warped" by her damaged conscious mind. We have big brains, and the ability to reinterpret and defy our innate survival instincts, if we feel it's appropriate to the situation. I'm studying a biology degree, but I went a bit into speculative psychology there, hopefully you see where I'm coming from.

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

My great grandmother was 44 when she had my grandfather, miracles happen. Cersei's not gone through the menopause yet, she's well fed, and it's plausible that in the Middle Ages a healthy, fertile woman who did well with childbirth and had a long lived husband would continue popping out babies up to her menopause. 

Don't some of the leaks say Cersei will be getting pregnant this season? There are a few hints in the books that could foreshadow this, and there she's only mid to late 30s, which is very possible. So it could be a book plot point they're adapting. 

I didn't say it was impossible, I'm just saying that I find it unlikely and unconvincing. Miracles can of course happen, but they are miracles because barely ever happen.

I don't read leaks. Of course if the show chooses to do this what can we do? But I think that would be a terrible idea and wouldn't make any sense at all. Of course, nothing that happened to the Cersei storyline in e10 made sense. Plus Lena Headey was pregnant during filming season 6. I think it would be blatantly stupid to get Cersei pregnant AFTER the actress had her baby. But then again, I wouldn't put it past the show. We'll see.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe common sense is overrated. Maybe Cersei will get pregnant in season 7 and have lovely little Lannister. And maybe... okay I need to stop right here. 

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Jaehaerys Tyrell RhaenysB

Thanks of sharing your thoughts, I read them all.

If the kids option is out, a solution would be Cersei inviting a nephew or a niece from Castely Rock in order to have an heir. It would still be her "blood" without needing to have kids. I feel this thing needs to be at least discussed in this season.

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3 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

I didn't say it was impossible, I'm just saying that I find it unlikely and unconvincing. Miracles can of course happen, but they are miracles because barely ever happen.

I don't read leaks. Of course if the show chooses to do this what can we do? But I think that would be a terrible idea and wouldn't make any sense at all. Of course, nothing that happened to the Cersei storyline in e10 made sense. Plus Lena Headey was pregnant during filming season 6. I think it would be blatantly stupid to get Cersei pregnant AFTER the actress had her baby. But then again, I wouldn't put it past the show. We'll see.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe common sense is overrated. Maybe Cersei will get pregnant in season 7 and have lovely little Lannister. And maybe... okay I need to stop right here. 

I agree, I don't see what a pregnant Cersei would contribute to the plot, especially with the importance placed on prophecy, which states she'll have just 3 children. Unless she has a hideous dwarf child, but that still isn't worth rubbishing the prophecies over. Although I don't see how her age makes you find it unconvincing when the actress herself gave birth just 2 years ago. 

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7 hours ago, Sanrast said:

Jaehaerys Tyrell RhaenysB

Thanks of sharing your thoughts, I read them all.

If the kids option is out, a solution would be Cersei inviting a nephew or a niece from Castely Rock in order to have an heir. It would still be her "blood" without needing to have kids. I feel this thing needs to be at least discussed in this season.

That's exactly what the solution could be if there was a single writer who have a shit about succession. They might of course. We don't know what's going to happen this season. (I just prefer to be negative about these things because I won't be disappointed if I expect the worst.) 

5 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

I agree, I don't see what a pregnant Cersei would contribute to the plot, especially with the importance placed on prophecy, which states she'll have just 3 children. Unless she has a hideous dwarf child, but that still isn't worth rubbishing the prophecies over. Although I don't see how her age makes you find it unconvincing when the actress herself gave birth just 2 years ago. 

the prophecy is already rubbished over. Cersei had a fourth child, a little black haired beauty with Robert. Or she lied to Catelyn in season one and put up a very good act to convince her that she feels for Bran. But then it was never addressed as a lie/act and was widely  considered honest (and the whitewashing of Cersei). So we don't really know what's the deal with the prophecy and that extra baby. 

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Queen Elizabeth loved power and wielded it relentlessly and without compunction.  She refused to marry and have children.  She understood very well that for her, a queen, to marry and have children, it would take away her power.  So she was content to have horrible James unite England Scotland when she died, putting in place the worst dynasty England ever suffered, the Stuarts.  Until they were gone for good things continued to go kaplooey, including even a revolution and royal beheadings.

Richard Lion Heart finally married but never spent any time with his wife, knowing how much the empire his father Henry II left him depended on a clear line of inheritance.  Instead he raced around fighting wars and gaining glory and let his feckless bro John have it, who promptly lost it all to France.

People can love the pomp and the glory for itself without any burning desire to pass it down to anybody in particular.

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2 hours ago, Zorral said:

People can love the pomp and the glory for itself without any burning desire to pass it down to anybody in particular.

Yeah, this is the thing that my mind can't understand. I can't understand how this is possible. Something just doesn't fit. I can't get inside the psych of these personalities. Lust for power and passing down your genes to my mind, it's one and the same. I still can't understand how somebody would want the one but not the other.

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I think she will want to have an heir. In one of the trailers, she refers to herself and Jaime as the "last Lannisters who count", so I think that still does mean something to her. Plus, an heir will help consolidate her power. She will try, maybe even openly with Jaime now (she has no fucks to give anymore) but I think she will fail. 

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1 hour ago, Sanrast said:

Yeah, this is the thing that my mind can't understand. I can't understand how this is possible. Something just doesn't fit. I can't get inside the psych of these personalities. Lust for power and passing down your genes to my mind, it's one and the same. I still can't understand how somebody would want the one but not the other.

A lot of people understand that.  It's particularly understandable when the figure is a woman.

Pregnancy and all that goes with it is putting one's life on the line in so many ways.

Being dead to bring an heir into the world, who may well be a girl who by, as in France's salic law can't inherit the monarchy, who may well not live either, and if it is a boy it may well not live either -- why do it if you don't have to?

Elizabeth understood it very well, and was one of the strongest and effective rulers in the history of England.

There was no upside percentage for her in getting married and putting her life on the line and losing her power to a man who might turn around and put her aside, kill her, etc., as her father did with her mother.

Look at what a medieval queen gets from not doing that and weigh it against what likely would happen if she did.  No brainer.

 

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S7 spoiler

Spoiler

We know from the leaks she'll try and fail

Personally i think it'd be in character for her to keep trying. Show Cersei isnt Book Cersei and even if she was, she's already THE Queen, her children would be second to her not backwards. If we include Book-Cersei logic, she sees her children as extensions of herself so she'd like a heir. Finally she'd probably try to have more children to convince herself the prophecy is wrong

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[mod] Let's stick to discussing the show and not digress into real-world medieval historical figures or our own beliefs about how other people do or should regard having children, please. [/mod]

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