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Disliking Tyrion Lannister


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On 2017-07-05 at 4:22 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I assure you, there are plenty of Americans who don't care for Tyrion Lannister, especially in the books. 

In that case I'm at a total loss :D

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Plenty to love and hate.  Maybe not to hate - I don't think there is anything villainous in his character.  I think that there is weakness in his character and that his father was fundamentally right about his short-comings (kek), even though Tywin obviously took animosity towards him too far.

 

Tyrion's unsavory characteristics all boil down to one thing:  He is a slave to his base desires.  Do you ever notice that Tyrion is obsessed with food?  Every time you read about him eating, it is accompanied by lavish depictions of the fine foods and flavor of everything.  I mean they wrote an entire cookbook from ASoIaF!

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/grrm_book/a-feast-of-ice-and-fire-cookbook/

I don't have the book but I bet that most of the recipes are taken directly from Tyrion chapters.  Whether he is dining and politicking in King's Landing, eating the Night's Watch's "succulent" boiled crabs, lounging with Illyrio and eating eastern foods, or whatever...this character is obsessed with food!  

It's not just food, obviously.  He is also constantly banging prostitutes and anyone else he possibly can.  The morality of it is irrelevant to me.  The point is that he has no concept of temperance.

 

Of course he can restrain himself and he doesn't drink to excess and do stupid things.  He's obviously still a smart man, but he's still a total degenerate.

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20 hours ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

My favorite character. Plenty to hate about him but smart/funny goes a long way. 

You pick your characters the way my sister picks her boyfriends. Needless to say I stopped listen to her whine about the way her relationships end years ago lol. 

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On 2017-07-08 at 8:00 AM, giant snake said:

(snip)

Of course he can restrain himself and he doesn't drink to excess and do stupid things.  He's obviously still a smart man, but he's still a total degenerate.

Tyrion Lannister doesn't drink to excess. Tyrion Lannister doesn't do do stupid things. Are we reading the same books? :D

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On 28.6.2017 at 4:44 AM, Fishb20 said:

he's the villain. GRRM said it himself (https://web.archive.org/web/19991013131915/http://cyberhaven.com/books/sciencefiction/martin.html), so asking for him to be a morally good character is a bit like saying I like Harry Potter, but this Voldemort fellow really does take things too far sometimes

Whoa, so what is up with this quote? Why does he say Tyrion is the villain? Of course!? I would have never guessed in the first books. Still after DwD I figured he was at a lowest point, but still a character you are "supposed to" root for. An anti-hero, maybe.

Also, was he really happy the Inkeep died? Could anyone quote that? I don't have the book here. I never noticed or forgot about that.

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3 hours ago, ftheking said:

Whoa, so what is up with this quote? Why does he say Tyrion is the villain? Of course!? I would have never guessed in the first books. Still after DwD I figured he was at a lowest point, but still a character you are "supposed to" root for. An anti-hero, maybe.

Also, was he really happy the Inkeep died? Could anyone quote that? I don't have the book here. I never noticed or forgot about that.

A "search of ice and fire" is a handy research site for it.

 
Quote

 

The memory was still bitter. One moment he'd been ordering supper, and an eye blink later he was facing a room of armed men, with Jyck reaching for a sword and the fat innkeep shrieking, "No swords, not here, please, m'lords." (aGoT, Tyrion IV)
 
"[Tywin] has taken the inn at the crossroads for his quarters."
Tyrion laughed. The inn at the crossroads! Perhaps the gods were just after all. [...] The inn and its stables were much as he remembered, though little more than tumbled stones and blackened foundations remained where the rest of the village had stood. A gibbet had been erected in the yard, and the body that swung there was covered with ravens. At Tyrion's approach they took to the air, squawking and flapping their black wings. He dismounted and glanced up at what remained of the corpse. The birds had eaten her lips and eyes and most of her cheeks, baring her stained red teeth in a hideous smile. "A room, a meal, and a flagon of wine, that was all I asked," he reminded her with a sigh of reproach. (aGoT, Tyrion VII)

 

 
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I didn't used to have to search anything but the damned kindle edition keeps updating and it erases my highlights.  I even highlighted key lines by color so that I could search by theme.  Really stupid how updates change all of that.  At least I know not to use a kindle edition when I'm researching something more serious.

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3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Can someone remind me why the innkeep had been killed? 

She dared to let Cat take Tyrion. Like, she could have stopped Cat. Tywin the douche in a nutshell. 

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3 hours ago, ftheking said:

Whoa, so what is up with this quote? Why does he say Tyrion is the villain? Of course!? I would have never guessed in the first books. Still after DwD I figured he was at a lowest point, but still a character you are "supposed to" root for. An anti-hero, maybe.

Also, was he really happy the Inkeep died? Could anyone quote that? I don't have the book here. I never noticed or forgot about that.

The quote in question doesn't indicate anything other than regret.

 

The innkeep was most likely just another victim of war, not really killed for any reason in particular.  Again it's another reason that it's hard to like Catelyn, because she basically started the war by doing this.  Of course I understand why she did what she did, and why she wanted Ned to go South to begin with, but that doesn't mean it was any less of a giant mistake.  Her first mistake was trusting Lysa though.  As it turns out, Catelyn was just as gullible as Ned in AGoT.

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Just now, The Bard of Banefort said:

Thanks. Tywin really is one of the most despicable characters in the series. 

Without the shadow of a doubt. Actually, he takes the cake imo. With Tarly a close second! 

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I seriously doubt that Tywin deliberately sought out the lady innkeep but whether he did or not, he is overrated around here in general.  As a general, he is first rate.  As a ruler, he isn't.  If anyone knows who Field Marshal Graf Tilly was in the 30 Years War, that's basically how I see Tywin in this series.

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3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

A "search of ice and fire" is a handy research site for it.

Thanks!

2 hours ago, giant snake said:

The quote in question doesn't indicate anything other than regret.

The innkeep was most likely just another victim of war, not really killed for any reason in particular.

I agree both times. Never crossed my mind that Tywin sought her out on purpose. I took it as "everyone dies in this bloody war". Tyrion doesn't seem gleefull to me, but cynical.

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http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Masha_Heddle

A Game of Thrones

Upon her arrival in the inn Catelyn remembers that when she was a child Masha always had a smile and a sweet cake for the children. Catelyn loved the cake but dreaded Masha's smile because it showed her blood-red teeth caused by her continuous eating of sourleaf.[1]

When Catelyn arrested Tyrion Lannister Masha did not want to get involved and let Catelyn take him. When the Lannisters invades the Riverlands, Tywin Lannister hangs Masha on a gibbet in the inn's yard as punishment for letting Catelyn kidnap Tyrion. Tyrion sees her body when he arrives at the inn to meet with his father.[2]

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2 hours ago, giant snake said:

The quote in question doesn't indicate anything other than regret.

He laughs and regards it as the gods' payback for Tywin taking that inn and he reproaches a corpse for something she never had any power to intervene with. He solely regrets Tywin hanging her when he tastes her beer. 

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41 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

He laughs and regards it as the gods' payback for Tywin taking that inn and he reproaches a corpse for something she never had any power to intervene with. He solely regrets Tywin hanging her when he tastes her beer. 

Tyrion also had absolutely no power in that situation or this situation, he just has to deal. He deals with gallows humor and cynicism . It shows that he is not actually heartless but has to use coping strategies to deal with the horror. You can tell how horrified he is by the description of the corpse. It's one of his likable characteristics IMO.

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21 minutes ago, ftheking said:

Tyrion also had absolutely no power in that situation or this situation, he just has to deal.

Did I say Tyrion was responsible? Of course not.

 

21 minutes ago, ftheking said:

He deals with gallows humor and cynicism .

Gallows humor is what Edd Tollet uses. Tyrion's is not gallows humor. His first reaction is glee. And then he reproaches a corpse.

Yes, he is a cynic, but reproaching a corpse is once again not cynicism.

21 minutes ago, ftheking said:

It shows that he is not actually heartless but has to use coping strategies to deal with the horror.

I call it, blaming other victims with even less power than he had to feel there's some payback for what happened to him. As a coping mechanism it's an UGLY coping mechanism that I have zero respect or sympathy for. Some people cope with shit by beating their partners and children up. It doesn't make me go "aaaaah, show some pity." I certainly do not call it a "likeable trait" or twist it into pretzel logic of evidence of "not being heartless". And there's a straw man in there, for I never claimed that Tyrion is without the ability to be empathic. But he sure often "copes" by withholding empathy from innocent victims. Mentally, Tyrion's one of those people who likes to kick the dog, because someone else kicked him. I find that a despiccable trait in humans. 

21 minutes ago, ftheking said:

You can tell how horrified he is by the description of the corpse. It's one of his likable characteristics IMO.

I actually cannot tell. Seems to me that because you are horrified by the description that you assume that Tyrion is too, simply for it being in Tyrion's POV. But that goes a step too far in the interpreting. For example Joffrey is a horrible shit in Sansa's POV to Mycah. We are horrified at his behavior as much as Arya is (though it isn't her POV), but all Sansa is doing is crying how they're ruining her pleasant date. Or what about Ser Hugh's death: described in bloody gory horrible detail in Sansa's POV, and yet we are explictly told that she feels nothing. At least Sansa is a child at the start of her teens. Tyrion's a male adult.

Tyrion's words, thoughts and actions do not evidence being horrified at all. What is described is just horrific to us, the readers. It doesn't mean that Tyrion is horrified.

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