Disliking Tyrion Lannister

[devilish]

3 hours ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

I really like Tyrion as a character, but I think his biggest flaw is his stupidity.

Yes, you read that right.

Tyrion may be clever, and have good strategic insight, but his behavior is utterly stupid.

We, as readers, are inclined to think he's a genius, because Tyrion himself thinks so, but few of his actions are in his own best interest. 

 

When Tyrion is sent to KL to serve as hand, he instantly pits himself against Cersei. To what end? What good would it do him? Tywin wasn't gonna thank him for it. Tywin makes it very clear that the strength of the family is his main motivation.

Yes, Tyrion's ploy with LF, Varys and Pycelle was clever, but he could have known that he couldn't trust any of them, and ALL of them would report to Cersei if it suited their purposes. 

What he should have done, was propose the Dorne alliance to Cersei directly (possibly lying that Tywin ordered it, to give his proposal some more weight). Cersei was still relatively reasonable at this point, and she would likely have accepted it, if brought to her from the perspective of Myrcella's safety, and lack thereof in KL.

He then could've tested LF, Pycelle, and Varys over a longer period of time, with smaller matters. 

Everything that goes awry for Tyrion is the direct result of his own actions against Cersei. He had her son kidnapped for Christ's sake and threatened to have him raped, how could she NOT think he was capable of harming her children? The one occasion he has to bond with her, he uses to poison her.

 

He should have made himself useful to Cersei. He should have complimented her cleverness, handed her ideas she could claim as her own, the way Taena does with Cersei, and Varys with Tyrion himself. If he would've shown himself to Cersei as a good accomplice, she would probably have told Tywin a more positive account after the Battle of the Blackwater. And she likely wouldn't have tried to have him killed (or was that Joffrey?) 

Instead Tyrion does all in his power to work against Cersei, allowing himself to be used by LF and Varys in the process. Even without Cersei's account on how things went down, Tywin could see what a mess both of them made of their rule.

I think Tywin's intention was to wed Cersei off again, assume regency, and make Tyrion hand, that is if Tyrion had worked for/with his family! Instead he poison's his sister, and kidnaps his nephew, threatening to have him raped because of a whore. No wonder Tywin was pissed off. Tyrion did EVERYTHING Tywin despises! And on top of that he plays the victim, begging for rewards...

Why was LF rewarded with Harrenhal? Because he, at least gave the impression to work with and for the Lannisters. LF made himself useful,without posing as a threat. Tyrion is unreliable and threatening, to his own family, in all ways possible. 

 

On top of that Tyrion is easily triggered. In AGOT he goes around telling Jon and Bran that they have to accept what they are, so it can't be used against them. But his own biggest problem is that he hasn't accepted his dwarfism, and let's it be used against him. LF has figured out precisely how. Tyrion looks down on Cersei for being stupid when she's angry as supposed to composed and cunning, but he has the exact same problem, albeit a more witty version of it. No less stupid though. 

 

Long story short: Tyrion has a keen strategic insight, and has what he himself calls 'Cersei's low cunning', but he lacks the capacity to see the bigger picture, and calculate in long(er) term consequences. Which is worsened by his own opinion of himself of being smarter than he actually is, and allowing himself to be led -almost exclusively- by his emotions. He's not half as smart as Varys or LF, at least he doesn't use his intelligence half as intelligently as they do. 

And I haven't even mentioned how stupid it was to bring Shae to court... 

Tyrion is bright but he’s also cursed to be a second son. Similarly to Ned, Stannis, Brynden and Oberyn he was programmed to complete tasks without asking too much what he’ll gain out of it.  I also think that he was duped by the real master of the game Tywin. The old lion gave him the impression that this was some sort of trial for him, which, if successful, might end up with him being granted CR. The Rock represented Tyrion’s only way of retaining his independence after the old lion dies. Without it, he would be easy prey to Cersei and Joffrey. No wonder why Tyrion took such job seriously. 

Regarding LF I don’t think that Tyrion had any choice but to reward the man. The man had played a vital role in stopping Ned Stark and he was the one who brought the Tyrells + their horde back to the fold.

In my opinion Tyrion should have played the game differently though.

a-    Cersei’s and Joffrey’s stupidity and massive ego could easily be exploited by suggesting plans, persuade them that it was their own idea and applaud their superb insight for coming with such plan. For example what better way to use Cersei’s wildfire’s plan then to put them on a ship and burn Stannis entire fleet up? Can you imagine how painful it would be for Stannis to be burnt with wildfire? How come he didn’t come with such plan himself? Thank god he’s got such a brilliant sister at his side. It certainly makes the job of HOTK easier with her at his side. Regarding Joffrey, well, Robb was crowned king of the North during his time in the Riverlands. What better plan to punish Sansa and the Starks/Tully scum for it then to first force Sansa to marry the Lannister dwarf and then appoint him as Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord of Riverrun? Riverrun would be turned into a Lannister stronghold, every sign of Tully/North will be eradicated and Sansa will be ‘soiled’ by the least of all Lannisters at the very place were Robb Stark was declared king only to live the rest of her days being ‘soiled’ again on her grandfather’s death bed. I can see the little blonde inbred warming up to such act of cruelty. Which leads us to B

b-    Aim smaller. There’s no way Cersei, Tywin or Joffrey would ever handle Tyrion CR. It’s just too rich, too powerful and too emotional for them to do that. However, Riverrun is gettable. The Lannisters/Baratheons have no ties to it, it’s a powerful stronghold but the Lannister army can breach it if they want to and the fact that it located pretty close to the Westerlands it makes it a relatively safe place to live in. I can’t see any lion complaining to that. Tywin will be able to pay his debt towards the imp without losing his ancestral home in the process. As Lord of Riverrun Tyrion would not only lose his claim to CR but would also agree to leave KL for good which would suit Cersei fine. Also such act of cruelty towards Sansa will probably be enough to get Joffrey’s support. 

c-    Tyrion is in no position to take painful decisions himself. Tommen and Myrcella should be sent to CR because it’s by far, the most impregnable fortress in Westeros. Cersei knows that. As of her not being around them, well, does she really think that the sheep at CR would dare hurting her little pups? After all, most of them still remember what she was like when she was THE lady of CR. How would they react now knowing that she’s THE queen of Westeros. These sorts of empty praises would probably be enough for Cersei to give her go ahead. 

[The Sunland Lord]

48 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Right.  He was not interested in doing justice.  He was playing the Game of Thrones.

What about Timmet's next murder?  Will Tyrion be responsible for that? 

Timmet and the mountain tribes were there with Tyrion because he quite had to save his life back from his trial in the Vale. They weren't companions of his own choosing, but offered reward in exchange for his own life. 

Tyrion and Tywin promised them gold after the war and Lannisters always pay their debts. Tyrion should've risked losing the hill tribes if he provided justice for the gambling cheater.

He is not Robb Stark, who was eager on losing his men during war to do justice.

While he had wrong view on what justice means and I agree with you and your point is justified, he knew he needs his men in war, rather then losing them away for nothing in exchange.

 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

2 hours ago, Lew Theobald said:

Tyrion is power hungry.  He really does want it all.  Tywin is ultimately one of the people standing in his way.  Tyrion also creates conflicts with Joffrey, knowing inevitably where this leads, that one of them must end up killing the other.  Anticipating this and analogous situations, he acquires poison.  While he wonders aloud to himself if he would be able to kill his relatives, he deliberately puts himself on a path that will eventually wedge him between the hammer and the anvil, and force him to make hard choices.

It is no accident that he lost his trial by combat.  It was poetic justice, or divine justice, or literary symbolic justice, or whatever.  The gods (or GRRM), who see men's hearts, judged him guilty.   Sure, he did not technically murder Joffrey, but that was only because someone else beat him to it.

Of course, you could arguing that murdering Joffrey was justified, and you might have a point.

Imo it's still stupid to make it so clear his main goal was to make Cersei's life as hard as possible. He could still have also worked against her, without making obvious it was him. There was no way in the world this was going to go well for him, since he didn't have any actual power.his power came through Tywin, and could, and would be taken away as soon as Tywin figured out he wasn't working in the interests that Tywin had in mind. And without his power, chances are, he'll end up dead. He should have anticipated that, and have given a good show of seemingly working in Tywin and Cersei's best interest, until he gained enough power to overthrow them. 

And his obsession with Cersei allows others to use him. 

I sometimes wonder if he was suicidal, because it's almost inevitable that his actions would lead him to the black cells. 

If course he'd be a less interesting character if he was another LF or Varys, so I'm not complaining.. I live Tyripn's mess. He's just not as smart as he thinks he is. 

1 hour ago, Lew Theobald said:

Surely, when all the chips fall, it will be clear that Cersei was right, and Tyrion wrong.  Dorne was not a good place to send Myrcella, and she was not safe there.  

 

1 hour ago, Lady bonehead said:

I'm glad someone mentioned Tyrion's sending Myrcella to Dorne, because we are made to feel at the time (especially in the show version) that this is a clever move, but really it's not. Tyrion is mainly motivated by spite against Cersei, who has every right to be consulted about the marriage of her only daughter, and doesn't really consider the long-term consequences. After all the Dornish are not that important militarily, and it's well known that they hate the Lannisters, which means that they are likely to believe the incest story even if they don't act on it. Which means that instead of making a useful alliance, he's just provided his enemies with anuseful hostage. 

I don't think it was a particularly stupid move. They needed a strong alliance, the Tyrells hadn't joined them yet. Stark and Tully weren't options, and that leaves Martell, Tyrell and Arryn... Besides in KL Myrcella was in more direct danger at the time... It was a choice between evils, but the way he tricked Cersei into accepting this marriage was what made him her obvious enemy. He could have pretended to work in her and her children's best interest,  but instead he makes it clear from the start that he doesn't, and then he wonders why Cersei thinks he's capable of harming her children.... 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

10 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

Sorry, couldn't remove quote.

1 hour ago, devilish said:

Tyrion is bright but he’s also cursed to be a second son. Similarly to Ned, Stannis, Brynden and Oberyn he was programmed to complete tasks without asking too much what he’ll gain out of it.  I also think that he was duped by the real master of the game Tywin. The old lion gave him the impression that this was some sort of trial for him, which, if successful, might end up with him being granted CR. The Rock represented Tyrion’s only way of retaining his independence after the old lion dies. Without it, he would be easy prey to Cersei and Joffrey. No wonder why Tyrion took such job seriously. 

He didn't take it seriously! He does everything he knows Tywin DOESN'T want, and then he whines when he's not rewarded for it. And he IS rewarded, just not with CR. Tyrion pushes the self-destruct button of his family, and then gets angry when it blows up in his face. 

1 hour ago, devilish said:

Regarding LF I don’t think that Tyrion had any choice but to reward the man. The man had played a vital role in stopping Ned Stark and he was the one who brought the Tyrells + their horde back to the fold.

Tyrion didn't reward LF with Harrenhal, Tywin did. And Tywin did it because LF gives the impression of working FOR the Lannisters (we know he doesn't) , unlike Tyrion. LF's approach to gaining power is much smarter than Tyrion's.

1 hour ago, devilish said:

In my opinion Tyrion should have played the game differently though.

a-    Cersei’s and Joffrey’s stupidity and massive ego could easily be exploited by suggesting plans, persuade them that it was their own idea and applaud their superb insight for coming with such plan. For example what better way to use Cersei’s wildfire’s plan then to put them on a ship and burn Stannis entire fleet up? Can you imagine how painful it would be for Stannis to be burnt with wildfire? How come he didn’t come with such plan himself? Thank god he’s got such a brilliant sister at his side. It certainly makes the job of HOTK easier with her at his side. Regarding Joffrey, well, Robb was crowned king of the North during his time in the Riverlands. What better plan to punish Sansa and the Starks/Tully scum for it then to first force Sansa to marry the Lannister dwarf and then appoint him as Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord of Riverrun? Riverrun would be turned into a Lannister stronghold, every sign of Tully/North will be eradicated and Sansa will be ‘soiled’ by the least of all Lannisters at the very place were Robb Stark was declared king only to live the rest of her days being ‘soiled’ again on her grandfather’s death bed. I can see the little blonde inbred warming up to such act of cruelty. Which leads us to B

Yeah exactly. If you want power, you have to behave in a way that people with actual power will give it to you. Alternatively you can use an army to take the power, but Tyrion only has his unruly mountain clans. 

1 hour ago, devilish said:

b-    Aim smaller. There’s no way Cersei, Tywin or Joffrey would ever handle Tyrion CR. It’s just too rich, too powerful and too emotional for them to do that. However, Riverrun is gettable. The Lannisters/Baratheons have no ties to it, it’s a powerful stronghold but the Lannister army can breach it if they want to and the fact that it located pretty close to the Westerlands it makes it a relatively safe place to live in. I can’t see any lion complaining to that. Tywin will be able to pay his debt towards the imp without losing his ancestral home in the process. As Lord of Riverrun Tyrion would not only lose his claim to CR but would also agree to leave KL for good which would suit Cersei fine. Also such act of cruelty towards Sansa will probably be enough to get Joffrey’s support. 

I don't think Tyrion wants CR. He wants power. He wants to be admired. I think he wants to be king. He also wants to hurt his family, which would be much easier if he'd first work on becoming very powerful... 

1 hour ago, devilish said:

c-    Tyrion is in no position to take painful decisions himself. Tommen and Myrcella should be sent to CR because it’s by far, the most impregnable fortress in Westeros. Cersei knows that. As of her not being around them, well, does she really think that the sheep at CR would dare hurting her little pups? After all, most of them still remember what she was like when she was THE lady of CR. How would they react now knowing that she’s THE queen of Westeros. These sorts of empty praises would probably be enough for Cersei to give her go ahead. 

Cersei was never the lady of CR...?

[Sigella]

2 hours ago, devilish said:

Tyrion is bright but he’s also cursed to be a second son. Similarly to Ned, Stannis, Brynden and Oberyn he was programmed to complete tasks without asking too much what he’ll gain out of it.  I also think that he was duped by the real master of the game Tywin. The old lion gave him the impression that this was some sort of trial for him, which, if successful, might end up with him being granted CR. The Rock represented Tyrion’s only way of retaining his independence after the old lion dies. Without it, he would be easy prey to Cersei and Joffrey. No wonder why Tyrion took such job seriously. 

Regarding LF I don’t think that Tyrion had any choice but to reward the man. The man had played a vital role in stopping Ned Stark and he was the one who brought the Tyrells + their horde back to the fold.

In my opinion Tyrion should have played the game differently though.

a-    Cersei’s and Joffrey’s stupidity and massive ego could easily be exploited by suggesting plans, persuade them that it was their own idea and applaud their superb insight for coming with such plan. For example what better way to use Cersei’s wildfire’s plan then to put them on a ship and burn Stannis entire fleet up? Can you imagine how painful it would be for Stannis to be burnt with wildfire? How come he didn’t come with such plan himself? Thank god he’s got such a brilliant sister at his side. It certainly makes the job of HOTK easier with her at his side. Regarding Joffrey, well, Robb was crowned king of the North during his time in the Riverlands. What better plan to punish Sansa and the Starks/Tully scum for it then to first force Sansa to marry the Lannister dwarf and then appoint him as Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord of Riverrun? Riverrun would be turned into a Lannister stronghold, every sign of Tully/North will be eradicated and Sansa will be ‘soiled’ by the least of all Lannisters at the very place were Robb Stark was declared king only to live the rest of her days being ‘soiled’ again on her grandfather’s death bed. I can see the little blonde inbred warming up to such act of cruelty. Which leads us to B

b-    Aim smaller. There’s no way Cersei, Tywin or Joffrey would ever handle Tyrion CR. It’s just too rich, too powerful and too emotional for them to do that. However, Riverrun is gettable. The Lannisters/Baratheons have no ties to it, it’s a powerful stronghold but the Lannister army can breach it if they want to and the fact that it located pretty close to the Westerlands it makes it a relatively safe place to live in. I can’t see any lion complaining to that. Tywin will be able to pay his debt towards the imp without losing his ancestral home in the process. As Lord of Riverrun Tyrion would not only lose his claim to CR but would also agree to leave KL for good which would suit Cersei fine. Also such act of cruelty towards Sansa will probably be enough to get Joffrey’s support. 

c-    Tyrion is in no position to take painful decisions himself. Tommen and Myrcella should be sent to CR because it’s by far, the most impregnable fortress in Westeros. Cersei knows that. As of her not being around them, well, does she really think that the sheep at CR would dare hurting her little pups? After all, most of them still remember what she was like when she was THE lady of CR. How would they react now knowing that she’s THE queen of Westeros. These sorts of empty praises would probably be enough for Cersei to give her go ahead. 

I agree on all except the emboldened. Pretty sure you're thinking of Storms End here

[Nihlus]

Objectively I recognize him as a loathsome prick, but his father was so awful that there weren't many other ways for him to turn out.

[tormond]

 wrong place

 

 

[devilish]

11 hours ago, Sigella said:

I agree on all except the emboldened. Pretty sure you're thinking of Storms End here

CR is carved out of a great stone hill. Its measured 3 times higher then the wall and had been an inspiration for the Eyrie. Visenya Targeryan is said to be grateful for the foolish Lannister king who charged in open battle against them because she really doubted that dragon fire could ever break through that vault.

On top of that, CR is sitting on a huge pile of gold and serves as the ancestral seat of one of the most powerful and defensible region in Westeros. There's no way Tywin or Cersei would ever allow the CR to be given to someone whom they cannot fully trust or love.

Storm's end is a formidable fortress (although not at par to CR) however its also the Baratheon's ancestral seat. Joffrey sees himself as a true Baratheon and I doubt he will be willing to give his father's inheritance to yet another Uncle who could then use it against him. 

Riverrun would be perfect. Its a strong but hardly unbreakable castle, which is very close to the Westerlands and is the seat to a prosperous but hardly unbeatable region. Castles in the Riverlands were up for grabs with Harrenhal being given to Slynt, Riverrun to Emmon and Darry to Lancel. I am pretty sure that Tyrion could persuade his own father Tywin to give him Riverrun especially if he surrenders his claim to CR.

[devilish]

12 hours ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Sorry, couldn't remove quote.

He didn't take it seriously! He does everything he knows Tywin DOESN'T want, and then he whines when he's not rewarded for it. And he IS rewarded, just not with CR. Tyrion pushes the self-destruct button of his family, and then gets angry when it blows up in his face. 

Tyrion didn't reward LF with Harrenhal, Tywin did. And Tywin did it because LF gives the impression of working FOR the Lannisters (we know he doesn't) , unlike Tyrion. LF's approach to gaining power is much smarter than Tyrion's.

Yeah exactly. If you want power, you have to behave in a way that people with actual power will give it to you. Alternatively you can use an army to take the power, but Tyrion only has his unruly mountain clans. 

I don't think Tyrion wants CR. He wants power. He wants to be admired. I think he wants to be king. He also wants to hurt his family, which would be much easier if he'd first work on becoming very powerful... 

Cersei was never the lady of CR...?

A- I think he did took it seriously and most of his ideas were valid. His trick against Stannis worked magic. He sent LF to the Tyrells which basically lead to the end of the war, his little trick with Cat was a long shot but it did work out at the end as Jamie was released by the Tully psycho. We can debate on the specifics and how Tyrion goes in great lengths to piss off the king and his sister (which I find totally unnecessary and counterproductive). However, lets not take it to the extreme. Tyrion did a good job in KL.

B- I believe that Tyrion wanted his birthright. Jamie is KG, Cersei is a woman, her children are Baratheons and Kevan is not even part of the main branch. Tyrion seriously think that Tywin should name him his successor. Which I think its a bit unrealistic especially in a family were dynasty was everything and his disability was never really accepted. By aiming smaller Tyrion could still get the Lordships and titles he wanted without stepping on too many feet. 

Cersei might never been the Lady of CR but surely she thought she was. 

[Sigella]

8 hours ago, devilish said:

CR is carved out of a great stone hill. Its measured 3 times higher then the wall and had been an inspiration for the Eyrie. Visenya Targeryan is said to be grateful for the foolish Lannister king who charged in open battle against them because she really doubted that dragon fire could ever break through that vault.

On top of that, CR is sitting on a huge pile of gold and serves as the ancestral seat of one of the most powerful and defensible region in Westeros. There's no way Tywin or Cersei would ever allow the CR to be given to someone whom they cannot fully trust or love.

Storm's end is a formidable fortress (although not at par to CR) however its also the Baratheon's ancestral seat. Joffrey sees himself as a true Baratheon and I doubt he will be willing to give his father's inheritance to yet another Uncle who could then use it against him. 

Riverrun would be perfect. Its a strong but hardly unbreakable castle, which is very close to the Westerlands and is the seat to a prosperous but hardly unbeatable region. Castles in the Riverlands were up for grabs with Harrenhal being given to Slynt, Riverrun to Emmon and Darry to Lancel. I am pretty sure that Tyrion could persuade his own father Tywin to give him Riverrun especially if he surrenders his claim to CR.

I meant that Storms End is known as THE impregnable castle of Westeros, not that Tyrion should try and get it

[Joy Hill]

I agree with those saying that Tyrion is emotionally stupid (just like nearly every Lannister).

[Sigella]

3 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

I agree with those saying that Tyrion is emotionally stupid (just like nearly every Lannister).

One could argue that goes for all characters though.

[The Sunland Lord]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:46 PM, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Imo it's still stupid to make it so clear his main goal was to make Cersei's life as hard as possible. He could still have also worked against her, without making obvious it was him. There was no way in the world this was going to go well for him, since he didn't have any actual power.his power came through Tywin, and could, and would be taken away as soon as Tywin figured out he wasn't working in the interests that Tywin had in mind. And without his power, chances are, he'll end up dead. He should have anticipated that, and have given a good show of seemingly working in Tywin and Cersei's best interest, until he gained enough power to overthrow them. 

 

He was stripped of power once he served his purpose, like after the Blackwater battle.

Tywin knew exactly when to cut his wings, so that he can keep him locked on short chains. 

Now why is this?

Because Tyrion didn't have the patience, character, and kind of leading lifestyle that can provide him with more power and wealth in the long term. Even if he played it more smart, spending good money on whoring, drinking and gambling would've never bring him in position to overthrow anyone. 

 

[Bernie Mac]

35 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

He was stripped of power once he served his purpose, like after the Blackwater battle.

No he was not. He was given a position on the Small Council, in control of the realms finances. In essence made him one of the most powerful and influential men in the Kingdom.  He could have used that position to repair his relations with his nephew and sister and won influence from other powerful members of the realm, much like Littlefinger did. 

Kings Landing no longer needed a stand in Hand as Tywin had returned. What was Tywin supposed to do? Step down and hope that Joffrey and Cersei would appoint Tyrion as his replacement?

35 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Tywin knew exactly when to cut his wings, so that he can keep him locked on short chains. 

They were hardly short chains. He was using his father's money travelling all around the continent of Westeros. 

Tywin also arranged him the marriage of the potential ruler of the North which would have made him the Lord Proctor of the North. 

35 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

Because Tyrion didn't have the patience, character, and kind of leading lifestyle that can provide him with more power and wealth in the long term.

Actually Tywin's biggest gripe is that Tyrion threatened the lives of his grandchildren over the safety of a whore. Tytos put his paramour above his House and lands and it almost ended House Lannister's rule of the West. 

 

[The Sunland Lord]

10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

No he was not. He was given a position on the Small Council, in control of the realms finances. In essence made him one of the most powerful and influential men in the Kingdom.  He could have used that position to repair his relations with his nephew and sister and won influence from other powerful members of the realm, much like Littlefinger did. 

Kings Landing no longer needed a stand in Hand as Tywin had returned. What was Tywin supposed to do? Step down and hope that Joffrey and Cersei would appoint Tyrion as his replacement?

They were hardly short chains. He was using his father's money travelling all around the continent of Westeros. 

Tywin also arranged him the marriage of the potential ruler of the North which would have made him the Lord Proctor of the North. 

Actually Tywin's biggest gripe is that Tyrion threatened the lives of his grandchildren over the safety of a whore. Tytos put his paramour above his House and lands and it almost ended House Lannister's rule of the West. 

 

He was given the task he was least capable to do. It's not as if it was anyone else's fault though. He just knew how to spend his father's money. So he didn't do it the best way possible, for that I shall agree with you.

Never said Tywin should've wait for Cercei or Joffrey to appoint him again. I quite stated the fact that Tyrion was stripped of power (Hand of the King) after the Battle of Blackwater Bay.

As I already wrote, and also in previous post, his lifestyle was pretty much in collision with gaining power and wealth. He'd rather spend money on everything else rather than leading a stable, power-feeding life that would provide him with friends and respect. I don't remember whether Tywin gave Tyrion money specifically to travel the world or Tyrion choose this himself, he has only one view on cash: Spending it. 

The short chains were not meant literally, but a metaphore on Tywin's view on how to treat Tyrion, and all of his children for that matter: They all should do as he says, and play the part he wants them to play. They didn't listen to him every time, but his view was that and that only.

Never denied that Tywin arranged Tyrion's marriage with Sansa. But, my reply to Manderly's Rat Cook was meant to make a point that Tyrion wasn't capable of overthrowing Tywin/Cercei by simply playing more smart. While this arrangement was very well, the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion was in no way a threat to neither of his father & sister.

Also I agree that (wrote in other post in this thread) that Tyrion's being too much fond of whores does not predict any good ways this fondness to end.

 

[devilish]

19 hours ago, Sigella said:

I meant that Storms End is known as THE impregnable castle of Westeros, not that Tyrion should try and get it

Not really. CR is the impregnable castle in Westeros

[Springwatch]

9 minutes ago, devilish said:

Not really. CR is the impregnable castle in Westeros

I thought it was Harrenhall!

[BadWo1f]

I don't dislike Tyrion, I just don't enjoy him as much as most people do.

[Sigella]

4 hours ago, devilish said:

Not really. CR is the impregnable castle in Westeros

Yeah its not like Brandon the Builder made SE, or that its so expertly built that even the storm-god couldn't raze it. Oh wait...  

[Bernie Mac]

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

He was given the task he was least capable to do.

Come on, this is a ridiclous statement. 

Is Tyrion a more capable Master of Ships than a Master of Coin? He has no experience of building ships or commanding Navies

Is Tyrion a more capable Master of Whispers than a Master of Coin? He has no network of spies at all and was reliant on Varys to supply him with information. 

Is Tyrion a more capable Master of Law than a Master of Coin? He is not respected by the Lords of the land and has shown little interest in the law. 

Is Tyrion a more capable Lord Commander of the Kingsguarrd than he is a Master of Coin? Clearly not. 

 

Master of Coin was the position he was most suited to. He is intelligent and would be dealing(and have responsibility) primarily with merchants and guilds rather than the top echelon of Westeros society. And of course he was actually doing just fine at the job. 

 

Please tell me which postion he should have received on the Small Council?

Tyrion is a fine character but some of his fans need to remember that he is a POV and has a tendency to whine about anything he gets as it is never enough or what he thinks he deserves. His opinion is not fact. 

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

Never said Tywin should've wait for Cercei or Joffrey to appoint him again. I quite stated the fact that Tyrion was stripped of power (Hand of the King) after the Battle of Blackwater Bay.

He was not stripped of power. His position became obsolete once Tywin returned and Tyrion was made Master of Coin once he got better. Did you expect the government to stop while Tyrion was unconscious and no one to act until he came to? Please tell me what Tywin and the government should have done while Tyrion was injured??

Tyrion on the Small Council is still one of the most powerful Lords in the realm. 

 

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

As I already wrote, and also in previous post, his lifestyle was pretty much in collision with gaining power and wealth. He'd rather spend money on everything else rather than leading a stable, power-feeding life that would provide him with friends and respect. I don't remember whether Tywin gave Tyrion money specifically to travel the world or Tyrion choose this himself, he has only one view on cash: Spending it. 

I'm not really sure your point here?

Tyrion wants power, he enjoys it and this position gave him power.

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

The short chains were not meant literally, but a metaphore on Tywin's view on how to treat Tyrion, and all of his children for that matter: They all should do as he says, and play the part he wants them to play. They didn't listen to him every time, but his view was that and that only.

Well yeah, he is the Head of their House. In some societies to this day adult children are still expected to do what the Particarch/Matricarch of the House tells them. About 100 years ago this was the norm in all societies on the planet. 

You are going too find this is the common viewpoint in Westeros society. You only have to look at the adult Harry Hardyng whining about having to marry Sansa/Alayne but having to go along with it as he had been ordered to by his guardian. 

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

Never denied that Tywin arranged Tyrion's marriage with Sansa. But, my reply to Manderly's Rat Cook was meant to make a point that Tyrion wasn't capable of overthrowing Tywin/Cercei by simply playing more smart.

We will never know as he never tried. Cersei, Joffrey and Tywin are all his superiors in their society yet Tyrion rarely treated them with respect. We see him poison his sister rather than try to work with her, we see him slapping his 12 year old nephew instead of acting like the adult in that relationship and we see him boasting to the Vale Lords how he wished his father and sister, the Queen, dead, a major faux pas in this society. And when his father makes him the second most powerful person in the realm all he asks is for Tyrion not to bring the whore he has only just met to court and Tyrion instantly decides to say fuck it.  He could have been like Littlefinger or any number of nobles who fake sincerity and respect for their own good and advancement. Tyrion wants to have his cake and eat it. 

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

While this arrangement was very well, the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion was in no way a threat to neither of his father & sister.

Who said it was? It was a huge reward as Sansa (and her claims) was one of the most valuable brides in the realm. Had Tyrion produced some heirs, built better relations with his family and the Lords of the land with his position on the Small Council he could, possibly, one day have inherited the Rock by proving he was the man his father wanted him to be. 

 

Tywin had never announced a new heir and given Tyrion the means to regain his (well Jaime's) birthright.