Ironborn Mythos (Pt 3): The Monomyth

[ravenous reader]

54 minutes ago, Unchained said:

 

You might like this then.  A lann is a sword blade in ancient Ireland.  In ASoIaF it is also the name of a person who covered himself in lube and squeezed his way through a hole in Casterly Rock to impregnate the women inside. 

 

The blade (lann) was kept in a sheath or scabbard. Sometimes the sheath was made of bronze: and several of these are preserved in museums. The beautiful specimen figured on last page was found in a crannoge.

Hi Unchained -- I see you are off the leash again and may have to be reined in soon...(and of course I am the one best suited to do so...).  

As it so happens, I had some, as it turns out in light of your more scholarly evidence, not-so-April-foolish thoughts along the same lines on LM's thread 'Petyr Baelish is Varys's Little Finger' (and see this follow-up post) which you might find amusing!

There's also this song in which seeing the maid with 'the point of the blade' is ambiguous in an ominous fashion, as Lost Melnibonean points out here:

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Part II

So, we can associate Brienne and Sansa to the maiden fair. What about the fair maid?

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“Off to Gulltown to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho . . . "

...

"I'll steal a sweet kiss with the point of my blade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho."

...

"I'll make her my love and we'll rest in the shade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho." The song swelled louder with every word.

Arya II, Storm 13

This sure sounds like a murder ballad. So, who gets whacked? Brienne, Sansa, or Arya?

 

10 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Your essay series is amazing.

 

But something that I have just now realised, is that many of the societies and cultures that GRRM gets his inspirations from often associate (some, jokingly, but some, very seriously) swords with penises.

When Azor Ahai put his sword into Nissa Nissa, she screamed in both pleasure and agony. Taking a woman's virginity is often associated with both pain (she bleeds because her hymen tears) and pleasure (the sex itself). Barbrey Dustin even describes Brandon taking her virginity as "a sweet pain".

AA also plunged it into her heart, which is often associated with love.

 

Also, a fun fact, the word "vagina" means "sheath" or "scabbard" - as in the thing you put your sword in.

Talking about furry scabbards, what does that make Dany fresh-forged from the funeral pyre when she snuggles her head and torso in the 'hrakkar' hoodie..?

RE:  AA+NN -- Although that's the stock narrative that AA loved NN so much and she reciprocally gave herself up to him for sacrifice out of the goodness of her heart, I don't believe that's quite how a Lightbringer forging always goes down.  In my opinion, the indications suggest that there's an element of coercion and treachery involved, making the 'stabbing' an unexpected 'low blow beneath the belt,' indeed.  Take the case of Lysa (NN analog) and Littlefinger (AA+AAR analog), to whom she lost her virginity.  While she may have loved him, it's clear he never loved her, and was just using her, initially perhaps out of a mistaken impression that the woman giving herself up to him in his bed was Cat, and then later in order to advance his own grandiose ambitions.  

Finally, in their last scene together  -- in which 'going through the Moon Door' can likewise be understood as a ritual sacrifice in three dimensions: (1) a loss of virginity (the penetration of the hymen with loss of 'moon blood'); (2) a stab through the heart; and (3) a rebirth for someone at the cost of someone else's life -- we can trace all the elements of a classic Lightbringer forging.  Accordingly, Lysa is the NN who is sacrificed, but this is against her will.  In line with the AA/NN imagery, Littlefinger performs the murder facing her 'full frontal', while figuratively stabbing her in the heart with his needling final words to her, 'Only Cat,' plunging her into the mercilessly bloody blue-- truly 'heartbreaking,' indeed!  The person 'reborn' is Littlefinger himself, as he effectively usurps Lysa's position of authority in the Vale.  

Therefore, AA is not a selfless individual necessarily, but someone who like the Bloodstone Emperor is guilty of a 'Blood Betrayal' done in order to strip someone else related to them of their power in a gambit designed to amass that power for himself (it's a lie that this was done to save the world -- it was only ever done to save one person, the murderer himself).  Fittingly, this particular Lightbringer forging takes place in the Vale, where the ironic motto is 'as high as honor' and the sigil is a 'blue falcon', which as @Pain killer Jane has pointed out is an idiom in the military designating a 'backstabbing buddy-fucker' -- except of course in AA's case, the 'backstabbing' was done facing the victim, because the person on the receiving end was not expecting to be killed by the beloved whom she implicitly trusted.  

[LmL]

Just wanted to chime in and agree with everything @ravenous reader just said about the Eyrie. I definitely think there was foul play involved in Nissa Nissa's death. I have been finding indications that NN's spirit lived on - inside the weirwoodnet, specifically (my next essay delves into this). There's a strong theme of revenge from this NN ghost, which fits in with the idea of foul play in her death. By the way the vengeful ghost of NN can also take the form as a vengeful child of NN - that's NN reborn in her child. A vengeful child bent on killing dad.

In terms of my basic astronomy hypothesis, the sun kills the moon first. Then the moon meteors, which are like children of the moon and sun, or like pieces of dead moon, plummet to the earth and throw up the smoke and debris which blots out the sun. That's the death of the sun, and it comes at the hand of the moon meteors - which, avain, can be seen as EITHER the resurrected moon (ghost of NN) or the new child of sun and moon, a child who kills the father for his murder of mommy. 

Tyrion kills his father, and his father "killed" Joanna by impreganting her, just as the sun did. Tyrion is an AA reborn type, and his mother died giving birth to him as the moon died giving birth to fiery dragon meteors. 

I think in terms of the Vale, symbolically, Sansa is Petyr and Lysa's child. Petyr kills Lysa via the moon door in an obvious sun kill moon sequence, and we all know Sansa will kill Petyr somehow. 

Ravenous always likes to mention the woman in Bran's WF vision who asks the old gods for a son to avenge her. It seems like a recurring pattern. 

[ravenous reader]

3 hours ago, LmL said:

Just wanted to chime in and agree with everything @ravenous reader just said... 

 

It's always nice when you agree with everything I say -- hear! hear! (we won't mention Dany, he he...) -- although that's probably because I derived most of these conclusions from your own theory!  

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about the Eyrie. I definitely think there was foul play involved in Nissa Nissa's death. I have been finding indications that NN's spirit lived on - inside the weirwoodnet, specifically (my next essay delves into this). There's a strong theme of revenge from this NN ghost, which fits in with the idea of foul play in her death. By the way the vengeful ghost of NN can also take the form as a vengeful child of NN - that's NN reborn in her child. A vengeful child bent on killing dad.

Good example is the child who stabs Varamyr for stealing his mother's squirrel skin off her dead body (symbolically, that's AA 'skinning' NN, for which the child, also a 'squirrel', wants vengeance).  I've taken the precaution of placing the following example of the same trend in spoilers since it's about that topic I've beaten to death, the Pr***g*e, which you may prefer skipping... :

Spoiler

 

You know I've also speculated that Will in addition to seeking to snatch the magicked-up lightning-struck sword was also planning on filching the infamous sable coat off Waymar's body (just like Euron did to Blacktyde after killing him):

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned.

His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin. "Bet he killed them all himself, he did," Gared told the barracks over wine, "twisted their little heads off, our mighty warrior." They had all shared the laugh.

In this equation, the father and son is represented by Waymar and wighted Waymar respectively!  But then when wighted Waymar advances on Will, Will seems to be playing the AA role vs. Waymar as AA reborn.  Perhaps the 'sable' or 'marten' represents a woman (the sable is slashed in 12 places in the ritual sacrifice)?

 

 

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In terms of my basic astronomy hypothesis, the sun kills the moon first. Then the moon meteors, which are like children of the moon and sun, or like pieces of dead moon, plummet to the earth and throw up the smoke and debris which blots out the sun. That's the death of the sun, and it comes at the hand of the moon meteors - which, avain, can be seen as EITHER the resurrected moon (ghost of NN) or the new child of sun and moon, a child who kills the father for his murder of mommy. 

Tyrion kills his father, and his father "killed" Joanna by impreganting her, just as the sun did. Tyrion is an AA reborn type, and his mother died giving birth to him as the moon died giving birth to fiery dragon meteors. 

I think in terms of the Vale, symbolically, Sansa is Petyr and Lysa's child. Petyr kills Lysa via the moon door in an obvious sun kill moon sequence, and we all know Sansa will kill Petyr somehow. 

 

It's fitting then, isn't it, that Sansa has been transformed into a 'Stone' = moon meteor alert!  In fact, you could say Petyr's demise at her hands will be like 'killing two birds with one (Alayne) stone'!    For more fun punning, we can also say that GRRM is having a bit of a lark () alluding to the classic American novel 'To Kill a Mockingbird' -- except in his case the twist is that the mockingbird in question is not innocent, and moreover that the task is 'To Kill Two Mockingbirds in one' ('two' birds because he's like Jekyll and Hyde, or Smeagol and Gollum, as @Springwatch has observed).  Even Sansa notes that she can sometimes not tell where 'Petyr' begins and 'Littlefinger' ends...(no more than she can 'Sansa' from 'Alayne' -- what's up with the 'twin' theme, LmL?  Does it have something to do with the Others, the vengeful Nissa ghosts, being 'twins to the first'?)

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A Feast for Crows - Sansa I

He saved Alayne, his daughter, a voice within her whispered. But she was Sansa too . . . and sometimes it seemed to her that the Lord Protector was two people as well. He was Petyr, her protector, warm and funny and gentle . . . but he was also Littlefinger, the lord she'd known at King's Landing, smiling slyly and stroking his beard as he whispered in Queen Cersei's ear. And Littlefinger was no friend of hers. When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not Littlefinger. When the Lannisters wed her to Tyrion against her will, Ser Garlan the Gallant gave her comfort, not Littlefinger. Littlefinger never lifted so much as his little finger for her.

Except to get me out. He did that for me. I thought it was Ser Dontos, my poor old drunken Florian, but it was Petyr all the while. Littlefinger was only a mask he had to wear. Only sometimes Sansa found it hard to tell where the man ended and the mask began. 

 

So, in other words, the NN-reborn has to kill the 'man' and the 'mask' -- or expose the man behind the mask.  This is one of the principal functions of the Lightbringer -- namely, as we learnt from Dany's prophecies, 'to slay the lie' and illuminate the truth.  The terrible truth is that Littlefinger, her 'father' and 'protector', is either directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of almost all the people in her family, including her mother -- Brandon, Rickard, Ned, Cat, Robb, Lysa, and counting...

Another way of looking at it, with reference to the Lightbringer forging three-step paradigm, is that the 'broken sword' represents a state of brokenness, alienation, lies, corruption, and murder.  It follows that the task remaining for the Lightbringer is to reintegrate the man and the mask, which is the same thing as dispelling the illusion, slicing through the veil (or 'Vale'...take your pick...), looking behind the curtain of light, as Bran did in his vision.  Behind the blinding curtain of light, the Aurora borealis, lies the darkness of space.  Paradoxically, 'illuminating the truth' sometimes requires 'facing the darkness' head-on.

Thinking about the 'twin swords', the 'Widow's Wail' to be avenged may refer to Cat's lingering anguish at Ned's death (which I believe was also machinated by Littlefinger).  Ned's execution turned her heart to stone.  

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A Clash of Kings - Catelyn II

"Lady Catelyn, you are wrong." Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. "Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it's always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining."

Winter comes for all of us, Catelyn thought. For me, it came when Ned died. It will come for you too, child, and sooner than you like. She did not have the heart to say it.

The heart of a falling stone is the substance out of which Dawn is forged.  Stoneheart's daughter is a stone.  Then the bleeding, yet bloodthirsty, heart on the pommel of Lady Forlorn (another wailing or keening widow, perhaps) is also a stone.    Sansa is another Lady Forlorn with a broken heart (the 'Lady' harking back to her murdered wolf).  Alayne, however, is 'bastard brave' -- is she a 'bastard sword'?  The avenging child is a bastard?  How would the 'Oathkeeper' symbolism fit into it?

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Littlefinger and Lord Petyr looked so very much alike. She would have fled them both, perhaps, but there was nowhere for her to go. Winterfell was burned and desolate, Bran and Rickon dead and cold. Robb had been betrayed and murdered at the Twins, along with their lady mother. Tyrion had been put to death for killing Joffrey, and if she ever returned to King's Landing the queen would have her head as well. The aunt she'd hoped would keep her safe had tried to murder her instead. Her uncle Edmure was a captive of the Freys, while her great-uncle the Blackfish was under siege at Riverrun. I have no place but here, Sansa thought miserably, and no true friend but Petyr.

That night the dead man sang "The Day They Hanged Black Robin," "The Mother's Tears," and "The Rains of Castamere." Then he stopped for a while, but just as Sansa began to drift off he started to play again. He sang "Six Sorrows," "Fallen Leaves," and "Alysanne." Such sad songs, she thought. When she closed her eyes she could see him in his sky cell, huddled in a corner away from the cold black sky, crouched beneath a fur with his woodharp cradled against his chest. I must not pity him, she told herself. He was vain and cruel, and soon he will be dead. She could not save him. And why should she want to? Marillion tried to rape her, and Petyr had saved her life not once but twice. Some lies you have to tell. Lies had been all that kept her alive in King's Landing. If she had not lied to Joffrey, his Kingsguard would have beat her bloody.

After "Alysanne" the singer stopped again, long enough for Sansa to snatch an hour's rest. But as the first light of dawn was prying at her shutters, she heard the soft strains of "On a Misty Morn" drifting up from below, and woke at once. That was more properly a woman's song, a lament sung by a mother on the dawn after some terrible battle, as she searches amongst the dead for the body of her only son. The mother sings her grief for her dead son, Sansa thought, but Marillion grieves for his fingers, for his eyes. The words rose like arrows and pierced her in the darkness.

Oh, by the way, the latter line is my all-time favorite 'killing word' reference!  The words rising like arrows to pierce the darkness are like the rising sun (or 'son'), the same as that 'cruel dagger of light' which shatters the idyllic respite of idle illusions = Dawn light 'prying at her shutters.'

How do you interpret the significance of the song announcing the Dawn -- 'On a misty morn' --in terms of your paradigm? Here it's suggested instead that it was a child, not its mother nor father, who was sacrificed, in aid of bringing light.  I think Dawn must be the same thing as Lightbringer, no?  Certainly appears that way symbolically, again and again.

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Ravenous always likes to mention the woman in Bran's WF vision who asks the old gods for a son to avenge her. It seems like a recurring pattern. 

Yeah, that's the classic example.  Now we just have to figure out the crime and the criminal (not to mention the identity of the lady emerging from the pool...if I had to take a guess, I'd say her name probably ends in '-issa', like N-issa, Al-yssa, or Melissa..).  Not a lot to go on  (P.S.  Have you checked out my compilation of the Collective Consolations of Not Knowing..?  ).

[Unchained]

7 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Even Sansa notes that she can sometimes not tell where 'Petyr' begins and 'Littlefinger' ends...(n

Sorry for bombarding you with notifications.  I have a lot of tinfoil that needs to come out.  There is something about certain characters that seem to be more than one person at a time or One person hiding behind a mask made of the person whose body is being used.  

 

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"Lord Littlefinger." Podrick managed a quick look at his face, then hastily dropped his eyes. "I meant, Lord Petyr. Lord Baelish. The master of coin."

 

"You make him sound a crowd." The boy hunched down as if struck, making Tyrion feel absurdly guilty

 

 

Littlefinger is one.  Tyrion is another, with his mismatched eyes he appears to be a genetic chimera.  You speculated once after I pointed out that Tyrion had all three dragon's colors once that he was Trios, the three headed dragon and pointed out the weird story where another dwarf was separated into parts and put in the mouths of different heads of a Trios statue.  That was carried out by agents of Cersei, who Kevin compares to the rising sun when he is thinking about what would have happened if Rhaegar had married her instead. Maelys the monsterous with his two heads seems to be a genetic chimera as well.  He gets killed by Selmy.  Those two stories are perhaps other examples of a white sword, Dawn, the cruel dagger of light separating the blended being into two or three to end the LN after which they may or may not be held apart by thee Wall, another Milky Way, white sword symbol.  In addition to Tyrion, who I take to be a walking, talking, offensive act of skinchanging sex in human form frozen in time at the moment of the of their unholy union, Jaime and Cersei when found by Bran are the same thing making House Lannister particularly full these abominations that need the sun to shine on them.  The sand snakes are wanting to do just that to them.  

 

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"It ends in blood, as it began," said Lady Nym. "It ends when Casterly Rock is cracked open, so the sun can shine on the maggots and the worms within. It ends with the utter ruin of Tywin Lannister and all his works.

 

Bran dreams about when he happened upon the twincest.  He thinks of the them as gargoyles who may have been lions once.  Furthing the idea that Tyrion the gargoyle/chimera is the same thing frozen in time as the twins when spied on by Bran.  I think of that encounter in the tower as showing us the truth that the event in question is a reaction that takes 3 inputs (Jaime, Cersei, Bran) and one output (grotesque, Tyrion's word, crippled greenseer Bran).  Bran is a 'child of three' just like Dany is told she is.  Another case of three inputs and one output is the very similar case of Tyrion happening upon his father and Shae.  Those three are the inputs and the output is damaged Tyrion who is hunted to be 'separated' by rising sun Cersei.  Tyrion is a good person to show the combination of three people due to his black, white, and green coloring.  I think these three inputs are the same as the two quarreling brothers and the woman they fight over.  We have recently discussed how the little brother gets struck down and gets his revenge as a trickster in the wintery rematch using magic killing words.  It is beginning to look to me that one of two things happens.  Either the victorious older brother summons the spirit of his dead brother in the net with his sexual magic ritual, or he is tricked into the sexual magic ritual by the deceased brother.  Euron using sex to trick/force Vic into killing his wife makes me lean toward the latter.  He is in he process of using Vic to make his "dreams" come true at the end of aDwD.  The killed younger brother at times looks to me to have Nissa Nissa symbolism.  I wonder if he is meant to be like the stranger, neither male nor female the wonderer, the one who should not be there like the catspaw assassin or Bran in the tower.  Theon is going through a younger brother fall from which he will likely rise again right now courtesy of RAMsey the horned older brother type.  Theon is a eunuch now.  He is neither sex for all intents and purposes.  Littlefinger seems to have no sexual interests beyond claiming the women, Cat and Sansa, he thinks he deserves and his tricky slave archetype parallel Varys is also a eunuch.  Little brother may have no sex, but I am still iffy on that.  I do think that he, the little brother, has a child in some sort of way, but he seems to use his brother for that.  The sexy swordplay scene you have mentioned several times is a great example.  Jaime uses his dead relative's sword and that relative dies from "quarrels" (the arrow variety) and "crowning" blows to the head after being drug behind his horse because being crowned is an old word for being hit on the head.  In the scene where Viserys is "crowned" that scene is based on two stories from Norse mythology both of which end with Thor "crowning" someone or threatening to do so.  The first is from the Lokasenna aka Loki's Quarrel, that's where all the quarrels come from I think.  Loki like Viserys stumbles in drunk and is denied a place to sit.  They both get offered one from Dany/Odin their only present ally.  Viserys is unwelcome because he is wearing a sword in a place where it is forbidden to spill blood and Loki is because earlier in the night he spilled a servant's blood.  Then Thor shows up and threatens to knock Loki's head off with his lightening hammer and Drogo playing the Thor role "crowns" Viserys.  Loki is bound until Ragnarok when his son, Fenir, eats Odin and his grandchildren through Fenir, Skoll and Hati, consume the sun and moon.  That is the little brother getting his revenge.  The parts of Viserys's death that do not appear in that story are him demanding what he was promised and the "bloody foal" aka the stallion who mounts the world aka Sleipnir, courtesy of @LmL.  Those events come from the story of the building of the wall in Asgard.  The smith in that story that promises to build the wall wants, what else, the sun, moon, and a goddess wife Freya.  Viserys is complaining about not getting "what was promised" by which he means a crown, but what he is actually trying to take is the goddess wife Dany.  Loki turns into a mare to distract the smith's stallion from finishing on time in order to deny the smith what he was promised by making him fail his task on time.  Thor "crowns" the smith with his lightening hammer when he gets angry about the trick and the trick is considered to hasten Ragnarok and to be the end of the golden age of the gods, that lines nicely wit the idea that the original sin messed up the seasons and brought about both Long Nights.  However they had no choice because if they had given the smith the payment it would have effectively been Ragnarok already losing the sun and moon.  That is the original sin, denying the payment of a Pact.  Loki is caught in mare form and impregnated after which he gives birth to Sleipnir.  The foal is given to Odin to ride.  It was Loki who originally told the gods to take the smith's offer, and it seems that he thought the smith would or might finish on time causing a lot of chaos as the gods tried to figure out what to do.  The whole ordeal was brought about by Loki, the guy Littlefinger is heavily based on, he killed Ned through the use of a fool just like Loki killed Baldur the same way.  So, Sleipnir is given to Odin to ride and the horse is analygous to Rhaego, the stallion who mounts the world and a prince that is promised when Dany asks the gods for help at the tent fight and is given it in he form of sword without a hilt Jorah.  Jorah then takes Dany into the tent to have her baby taken as payment.  That is the ASoIaF twist.  The foal/baby is claimed by the Odin/greenseer intentially instead of by accident/opportunity like in the Norse myth.  If you remember way back to when I was a green boy who stank of summer and I made the topic about the Sleipnirs that appear at the Alchemical, Red, and Purple Weddings, I showed they are a recurring theme.  I have now nailed down princes that were promised preceding all three.  Right after Dany asks the gods for help, she calls out "my baby" which is her telling "no one" in he tent what she will give as payment.

 

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The Dothraki were shouting, Mirri Maz Duur wailing inside the tent like nothing human, Quaro pleading for water as he died. Dany cried out for help, but no one heard. Rakharo was fighting Haggo, arakh dancing with arakh until Jhogo's whip cracked, loud as thunder, the lash coiling around Haggo's throat. A yank, and the bloodrider stumbled backward, losing his feet and his sword. Rakharo sprang forward, howling, swinging his arakh down with both hands through the top of Haggo's head. The point caught between his eyes, red and quivering. Someone threw a stone, and when Dany looked, her shoulder was torn and bloody. "No," she wept, "no, please, stop it, it's too high, the price is too high." More stones came flying. She tried to crawl toward the tent, but Cohollo caught her. Fingers in her hair, he pulled her head back and she felt the cold touch of his knife at her throat. "My baby," she screamed, and perhaps the gods heard, for as quick as that, Cohollo was dead. Aggo's arrow took him under the arm, to pierce his lungs and heart.

 

 In the chapter where Tyrion learns he is to be Cersei's fool knight to save her after she asks Tywin for help, the first line is "They have my son" which is Tywin learning that his firstborn son has been captured.  When Tyrion asks  what he is to do in King's Landing this is the answer...

 

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"Let her say what she likes. Her son needs to be taken in hand before he ruins us all.

 

Her son needs to be taken in hand.  Tyrion saves the city from a Baratheon as he was asked by Cersei, then from Cersei's perspective he claims her firstborn son.  

 

In the chapter where Renly is killed, Cat starts out by visiting a sept and praying to the Mother to spare the sons that will die in the battle outside Storm's End and says that the mother is as fierce as the warrior when protecting her children.  Then right before the shadow appears...

 

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"I beg you in the name of the Mother," Catelyn began when a sudden gust of wind flung open the door of the tent. She thought she glimpsed movement, but when she turned her head, it was only the king's shadow shifting against the silken walls.

 

She calls the Mother to in her name and right on cue like the Other in the prologue the shadow appears to spare the sons that would have died in the battle had it occurred.  Here is the quote from where she asked for the goddess's help.

 

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She knelt before the Mother. "My lady, look down on this battle with a mother's eyes. They are all sons, every one. Spare them if you can, and spare my own sons as well. Watch over Robb and Bran and Rickon. Would that I were with them.

She, like Dany, names her own sons right after asking for help from the gods.  That is what she offers up.  It turns out that @sweetsunray nailed down this pattern way before I did, which I had forgotten about until recently, when it was identified that Ned in the black cells damns a bunch of people he blames for his downfall and last, he damns himself as payment.  Then he is promptly killed by Littlefinger through use of a fool.  

 

The point is is that the various Sleipnirs Robb, Rhaego, and Joffrey, whose deaths precede the appearances of the Sleipnirs of Drogos grey stallion, the doves that emerge from @Seams pie/pyre, and Robb who skinchachanges Grey Wind upon his death were all promised to the gods for their help previously.  They are the mount for the greenseer.  They give the greenseer the ability to ride.  Tyrion, a symbol of the combination child of three that is born from the sexual ritual, gives crippled Bran, a symbol of the same, Dancer who is chestnut in color and specially trained to be controlled by Bran, a feature  @sweetsunray also written a lot about.  Basically it is a version of the angel of death, the last plague who claims all the first born sons.  

Changing subjects, the squirrel cloak that Varamyr is given a Littlefinger-like cut for stealing is especially good for representing Nissa Nissa the skinchanging host because she was probably something like a CotF aka a squirrel person and also a Ratatoskr-style trickster herself going between the above and below ground greenseers who I think are also the quarreling brothers.  I like @Crowfood's Daughter have a hard time figuring out how she can be both a beautiful Helen type and a CotF.  I would say that Cersei shows that someone can be both.  She is a beautiful Helen type whose infidelity causes a war.  Sometimes she dresses in the fiery colors of her house, but sometimes she wears all green to match her eyes.  Tyrion sees her as a goddess in green at one point.  When she is green, she is not a CotF as far as I can see, but rather appears to be a female version of whatever Garth was. I have no idea what the relationship was between Garth people and the CotF, but there may be one that is important.  

[Sensenmenn]

On 7/1/2017 at 7:57 PM, Unchained said:

Littlefinger is hoarding grain for the winter.  Never thought about it in terms of Joseph, but maybe it is something like that.  

 

Joseph fits the whole Morningstar character type well.  He rose as his fathers favorite, fell into slavery, then rose again and saved his people from a period of no crops.  

This sounds like jaime he started as his fathers favorit fell to slavery(oaths can be taken as a form of slavery and he was brought low by them) and then rose again to save his people.

[LmL]

The tall elvish NN types - the female Garth you mentioned - are showing us Tiger Woman, I think. Meaning, I DO think that there is another elvish race- what we know of as green men - and that this race came from the east. I think I can prove it all, but we will see.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

The coat of many colors is the coat of the tattered prince.  The exiled Valyrian looking prince who escaped his death and joined a sellsword company.  He first joined the second sons (you know, the one with the broken sword for a sigil) before founding "the windblown".  The other coat of many colors can be found in the Summer Islander who brought Sam back from drowning and the exiled Summer Islander at court.  Unchained, you are not far off.  I think GRRM is telling us quite a bit about Azor Ahai with the sellsword companies with names like the Stormbreakers, the Stormcrows, the Windblown, the Golden Company and the Company of the Cat. 

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 7:37 PM, Unchained said:

 

We talked about Jacob and Esau once.  I think Tyrion is playing the role of Joseph.  He had to flee his half sibling Cersei's attempt to kill him by accusing him of murder and spent time as a slave in his way to the land of the pyramids.  If he winds up in a position of power in Dany's regime it would be like he was vizier.  It will probably be an inversion where he uses his position against his family instead of helping them.  Joseph had that one dream that sounds really AAish and almost had last hero math.  

 

 

 

[Unchained]

The Tattered Prince interests me a lot. An escaped prince meant for sacrifice who wants to return home with an army to take it over is what the last hero is. He was like Monster, supposed to become on Other or a member of something similar like the Order of Green Men. But he fought his fate with help. Yea, I agree his cloak is very coat of many colors-like. 

 

I think all the sellsword companies are something about the Last Hero. They are exiles wanting to go home. I can see the importance of their names, but they all seem like generic AA words blended to me. If Garth as you call him was the stormy hammer dropper, and was not the same as the Grey King, but they seem to have last hero symbols too, then what am I to make of all the storm names for example?  

 

I am still ill of the belief there were 4 total characters of importance. Dany has a spouse, brother, and unborn child seemingly sacrificed for her dragons. Euron has a spouse, brother, and unborn child strapped to the front of his ship as of the last released TWoW chapter. That's the 4. Rival brothers, a woman who they sometimes both want, and a child that is doomed before they are born.

 

Child = Last Hero, Brothers = Garth and Grey King, Woman = all the wives in the myths, she helps the Grey King at some point, seemingly gives up the child, and not sure what else she's hard. There are so few Age of Heroes stories about women. All the ones we learn much about are men. 

[Crowfood's Daughter]

Windblown...it is what a storm will do to you.  If you are windblown you are fazed by the wind.  Garth is the storm in a sense and was a storm maker. A word like stormbreaker sounds like something acting against the storm rather than for it.  A stormcrow could just as much be about someone affected by or surviving a storm as is could about making one.   

[Crowfood's Daughter]

13 hours ago, Unchained said:

The Tattered Prince interests me a lot. An escaped prince meant for sacrifice who wants to return home with an army to take it over is what the last hero is. He was like Monster, supposed to become on Other or a member of something similar like the Order of Green Men. But he fought his fate with help. Yea, I agree his cloak is very coat of many colors-like. 

 

I think all the sellsword companies are something about the Last Hero. They are exiles wanting to go home. I can see the importance of their names, but they all seem like generic AA words blended to me. If Garth as you call him was the stormy hammer dropper, and was not the same as the Grey King, but they seem to have last hero symbols too, then what am I to make of all the storm names for example?  

 

I am still ill of the belief there were 4 total characters of importance. Dany has a spouse, brother, and unborn child seemingly sacrificed for her dragons. Euron has a spouse, brother, and unborn child strapped to the front of his ship as of the last released TWoW chapter. That's the 4. Rival brothers, a woman who they sometimes both want, and a child that is doomed before they are born.

 

Child = Last Hero, Brothers = Garth and Grey King, Woman = all the wives in the myths, she helps the Grey King at some point, seemingly gives up the child, and not sure what else she's hard. There are so few Age of Heroes stories about women. All the ones we learn much about are men. 

Windblown...it is what a storm will do to you.  If you are windblown you are fazed by the wind.  Garth is the storm in a sense and was a storm maker. A word like stormbreaker sounds like something acting against the storm rather than for it.  A stormcrow could just as much be about someone affected by or surviving a storm as is could about making one.