U.S. Politics: "Trump Is Dumber Than A Bag Of Hair"

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

This seems a bit excessive.... 

Why? Particularly when knowing the history of this country in granular detail.  And everything that is going on right this minute.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Ormond said:

Obviously receiving a death threat would be disconcerting --

But I do think we have to remember that sending death threats -- like any form  of communication -- is just loads easier than it was even a few years ago. It used to be to send a death threat to someone you didn't know, and who didn't live in your hometown, you had to put a lot of effort into finding out how to communicate with them. These days you can often figure out how to send a threat to someone through Facebook or Twitter with a minute or two, and one can find phone numbers of people all over the country just by a quick Google search. So just as plenty of people post things on Facebook when they are drunk or high that get them into trouble, when even an impulsive personality would not have been able to post inappropriate things to the whole world a few years ago, people who get really angry at a stranger because of a news report now may actually send a death threat to them quickly when before all they would do is tell a couple of friends "I could just kill that bastard."

So I suspect most people in public life get more threats than they used to. It's another way in which modern technology has made life less civil and more anxiety provoking.

 

Tell that to all the women who have been killed by their husbands, ex-boyfriends, etc., who have called and called the police trying to get them to intervene and protect her, men who don't even obey the orders to stay away -- and then kill those women.

Do you have any idea how many deaths every year are caused by these people. This isn't even counting what we call domestic terrorism.  Nooses everywhere.  Last week a well respected and admired Italian butcher in the West Village handed one to the regular African American delivery man, saying, "Here go kill yourself.  I'll help and pull the rope."  He cannot understand why people and the legal system -- and the man himself, classified this as a hate crime.   He's now saying he's been picked on. I can't ever buy from him again.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

32 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

With respect, to the employer exclusion, probably not. They probably think it's due to their own personal awesomeness or maybe the libertarian healthcare fairy is providing it.
The reason conservative say stuff like this is because they simply don't have much crediable on healthcare policy (or really anything else these days).
I think deep down, they know their positions are untenable. So they poor shame people and attack their moral character.
I think this what Murray is trying to do in his latest book, although in a more sophisticated manner.
I've heard these kind of comments from conservative sorts of people I know, and boy have I read them the riot act over it.(it helps I know many of their own personal moral failings and am able to point them out in excruciating detail.)

Well, I'm not entirely so sure about this.  I do think that the Republicans have gotten themselves into an ideological muddle with the ACA.  Here is, an interpretation of what someone might say from the other side (rather than "I just want all the poors to die already")*:

1.  There is a discussion to be had as to what, if any, healthcare services the government should provide.  Since the 1960s, we have answered that with "healthcare for the very poor" and "healthcare for the elderly."  Other developed nations have answered that question differently, but we'll come back to that.

2.  The discussion has moved over time to whether the government should be providing more in the terms of healthcare services.  The answer provided by the ACA was that the government should compel insurance for healthcare for all (other than the poor, who would still be covered as above), but not healthcare services itself.  That is, that the government should insert itself into the marketplace for insurance in the first instance, rather than for healthcare, except as described above.  This "market based" solution, which has government interfering in a market secondary to the service in question was originally a conservative idea, as has been pointed out many times here.

• The ACA did not actually provide health care.  In fact, I think that is one of the reasons why it was so well-hated.  It greatly expanded access to care because it made acute care more affordable, but it was far from the government itself providing the care.
• But I think some people conflated the ACA with something other than insurance (which is supposed to protect against the catastrophic).

3.  This country for better or for worse, has two things operating here.  The first is that we have a federal system (which, as a New York resident, I am enjoying very much right this short second, thank you very much).  That means that there are at best obstacles to fully functional universal care being provided by the federal government.  The second is a historic distrust of the federal government.  There are plenty of people who, rightly or wrongly, think that giving the federal government monopolistic type power over healthcare for all but the very wealthy is a bad idea and that such power can (and would be) abused.  Maybe more atavistically, such folks believe that giving a centralized government that sort of power (a required dependency on government) makes them "less free."

• Many of these same people would happily take the government provided services, btw, but dislike that it isn't couched as their own idea.
• Acknowledged that the logic leap is a bit much.    

4.  There is a view that leaving catastrophic health care to charity for those who don't have insurance, is in fact meet and just, and a more pure expression of market forces and acts of charity.  That is, there are the poor and the deserving poor, and it is only the latter that should get help from the rest of us.  (For a moment, lapsing back to me, I have always found the concept of "deserving poor" very hard to reconcile with my own (relatively Christian) ethics, because honestly, who am I to judge?  Also have never found anyone who can defend, other than very illogically, why their judgment of who deserves is better than anyone elses, and why they are better than anyone else at discerning truth in appeals for help).  

5.  Also, I think the fact that "it works really well in other countries" isn't a helpful argument (though it should be).  American exceptionalism is too deeply ingrained in culture.  So many believe that we are different and that the solution won't work here as it does other places for [insert reason].  

6. Which brings me back to the first point.  I think many conservatives wish to have the discussion as to whether healthcare should be a public good at all.  I think many of their constituents already believe that it is/should be and don't understand why they don't get coverage.  Yet, they are marketed that the various solutions that do provide government sponsored healthcare make them less free...which leads to a muddle.....

*The below does not necessarily represent my own opinion, just more condensing things I have heard from others.

[Ormond]

56 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

LOL.

I recall telling some conservative sorts of people that I was liberal and then looking at the expressions on their faces. You weren't suppose to admit to being a liberal. You were supposed to say "progressive".

This is very interesting to me. The way I personally react to the words, I think of someone who says they are "progressive" as being further to the left than someone who says they are "liberal."

[Ormond]

46 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Tell that to all the women who have been killed by their husbands, ex-boyfriends, etc., who have called and called the police trying to get them to intervene and protect her, men who don't even obey the orders to stay away -- and then kill those women.

Do you have any idea how many deaths every year are caused by these people. This isn't even counting what we call domestic terrorism.  Nooses everywhere.  Last week a well respected and admired Italian butcher in the West Village handed one to the regular African American delivery man, saying, "Here go kill yourself.  I'll help and pull the rope."  He cannot understand why people and the legal system -- and the man himself, classified this as a hate crime.   He's now saying he's been picked on. I can't ever buy from him again.

I am well aware of domestic violence and think your equation of what I was talking about with that problem is illogical and overblown.

Someone who puts a threatening post on the Facebook page of a politician or celebrity they live hundreds of miles from is in a different category than a husband or boyfriend who is threatening someone he has or had an intimate relationship with. 

I wouldn't buy anything from a merchant who handed such a note to an African-American delivery man again either. That doesn't mean that I think he is as likely to actually commit violence as someone who already has a history of domestic abuse is to commit further violence against the partner or former partner who they have already assaulted.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

New Sassy Trump Wrinkle: Robot Melania

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And who knew finding the presidential limo could be so complicated?

/Does anyone else smell burnt toast?

[Dr. Pepper]

I keep seeing that limo video circulate, but the context is missing.  Like, did Trump assume he was going elsewhere?  That seems completely plausible.  Using this as evidence that he's not sane is stupid, imo.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

I keep seeing that limo video circulate, but the context is missing.  Like, did Trump assume he was going elsewhere?  That seems completely plausible.  Using this as evidence that he's not sane is stupid, imo.

It would be helpful to see a wide-angle shot. Like is there another limo parked in the direction that he is walking? That could certainly explain it. That said, if you combine this with the one where he stumbled off aimlessly after shaking Netanyahu's hand in Israel, and the bit where he left a press conference/EO signing without actually signing the EO, it doesn't look good.

[Dr. Pepper]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It would be helpful to see a wide-angle shot. Like is there another limo parked in the direction that he is walking? That could certainly explain it. That said, if you combine this with the one where he stumbled off aimlessly after shaking Netanyahu's hand in Israel, and the bit where he left a press conference/EO signing without actually signing the EO, it doesn't look good.

Doesn't look good how?  Are you still trying to use these random things to prove he isn't sane?  Can you show evidence that no other world leader has never been unclear what exactly is expected of them at all times?  Are you under the assumption that he has really really really good staff that will make sure he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time?  Have you decided that he's willing to listen to and follow directions?  

I mean, come the fuck on.  This man has spent decades showing us that he is a narcissistic lunatic.  None of this is new and no amount of being unclear about what to do or bored or whatever is somehow 'proof' that he's suddenly unable to lead. You know what doesn't look good?  Posting videos that promote violence towards journalists.  Tearing up environmental protections agreements.  Allowing the State Department to sink.  Having nazi's on his staff.  Interviewing with Alex Jones.  Allowing his children top level government positions.  Telling outrageous lies about what he can accomplish.  That shit doesn't look good.  Enough with this "uh oh, he's wandering away from a limo" bullshit.  It's as dumb as conservatives freaking out that Hillary has a cough drop addiction.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Doesn't look good how?  Are you still trying to use these random things to prove he isn't sane?  Can you show evidence that no other world leader has never been unclear what exactly is expected of them at all times?  Are you under the assumption that he has really really really good staff that will make sure he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time?  Have you decided that he's willing to listen to and follow directions?  

I mean, come the fuck on.  This man has spent decades showing us that he is a narcissistic lunatic.  None of this is new and no amount of being unclear about what to do or bored or whatever is somehow 'proof' that he's suddenly unable to lead. You know what doesn't look good?  Posting videos that promote violence towards journalists.  Tearing up environmental protections agreements.  Allowing the State Department to sink.  Having nazi's on his staff.  Interviewing with Alex Jones.  Allowing his children top level government positions.  Telling outrageous lies about what he can accomplish.  That shit doesn't look good.  Enough with this "uh oh, he's wandering away from a limo" bullshit.  It's as dumb as conservatives freaking out that Hillary has a cough drop addiction.

This kind of stuff (which looks a lot like sundowner's to me) adds a whole nother dimension of concern. This isn't a personality disorder. It's potentially a loss of mental cognition that would be extremely dangerous for someone in his position to be faced with.

And no, this is in no way equivalent to being concerned about Hillary having the flu. For starters, she wasn't POTUS when that occurred. 

[Dr. Pepper]

7 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

This kind of stuff (which looks a lot like sundowner's to me) adds a whole nother dimension of concern. This isn't a personality disorder. It's potentially a loss of mental cognition that would be extremely dangerous for someone in his position to be faced with.

And no, this is in no way equivalent to being concerned about Hillary having the flu. For starters, she wasn't POTUS when that occurred. 

Wow.  You're really digging deep for this one.  I mean really deep.  As in you're just creating shit out of thin air with the only evidence being videos with little to no context and a sincere wish that you can find away to get this fucking mad man out of office.  This is exactly as stupid as people saying Hillary couldn't be POTUS because she used cough drops or had the flu.  Actually, it's even more stupid because you literally don't know what the cheeto bastard was trying to do or thought he was doing when he walked away from the limo.  Ffs.

smh.  

You know, if it comes down to Trump being impeached because he acted like he always does and loses attention easily or doesn't listen to people or just pretends like he knows what he's doing, then fine.  It's still shameful and embarrassing, but I'll take it.  But jeez I wish people would care about the actual deeply horrible, unAmerican, unfit for office shit he has done and continues to do.

[mormont]

[mod] Knock off the personal bickering, please. [/mod]

2 hours ago, Ormond said:

I am well aware of domestic violence and think your equation of what I was talking about with that problem is illogical and overblown.

Someone who puts a threatening post on the Facebook page of a politician or celebrity they live hundreds of miles from is in a different category than a husband or boyfriend who is threatening someone he has or had an intimate relationship with.

That said, isn't there an argument that the increasing prevalence of death threats of the former type contributes to a culture where death threats of the latter type can be minimised or dismissed? If death threats on the internet are an everyday occurrence, then my ex posting them on my Facebook page can be waved away by the police, can't it?

[Martell Spy]

Bernie Sanders is the Democrats’ real 2020 frontrunner
He's staffing up, touring the country, and still drawing record crowds.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/5/15802616/bernie-sanders-2020

 

The Right Is Turning the Charlie Gard Tragedy into a Case Against Single-Payer Health Care. It’s the Opposite.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/07/05/the_right_is_turning_the_charlie_gard_tragedy_into_a_case_against_single.html

[ding-fries-are-done]

If you are not backing this kid on Reddit for posting the meme of Trump chokeslamming CNN then you got some serious problems. 

It doesn't matter what your political ideology is.  

CNN basically made a threat of blackmail by threaten to "out" his personal information.  

Think of the precedent this would be.  This would allow anyone who gets upset about a post that someone posts anonymously online the ability to reveal their personal information.  

Think of it this way, say for example there is a gay poster on this board who is scared to come out and posts here for advice and someone else here doesn't like his posts and outs him to his friends and family.  

CNN has messed up big time.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

If you are not backing this kid on Reddit for posting the meme of Trump chokeslamming CNN then you got some serious problems. 

It doesn't matter what your political ideology is.  

CNN basically made a threat of blackmail by threaten to "out" his personal information.  

Think of the precedent this would be.  This would allow anyone who gets upset about a post that someone posts anonymously online the ability to reveal their personal information.  

Think of it this way, say for example there is a gay poster on this board who is scared to come out and posts here for advice and someone else here doesn't like his posts and outs him to his friends and family.  

CNN has messed up big time.  

 

/Did they reveal his information? Unbunch thine panties.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 GOP seems to forget that it holds the House, Senate and Presidency...

 

 

[Week]

10 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

If you are not backing this kid on Reddit for posting the meme of Trump chokeslamming CNN then you got some serious problems. 

It doesn't matter what your political ideology is.  

CNN basically made a threat of blackmail by threaten to "out" his personal information.  

Not a kid and not really a threat - though it was awkwardly written. Keep your eyes on the prize though chief.

[Dr. Pepper]

What the fuck is Rahm Emanuel thinking?  

Starting with the 2020 graduating class, Chicago Public Schools will withhold diplomas from students who do not have a job, college acceptance, enrolment in a gap year program, or enlistment in the military.  Sure, in theory this is a swell idea but it doesn't appear to also come with a massive injection of money in the entire educational system.  Or social safety nets.  Or health care.  Or the economy

http://jezebel.com/chicago-will-withhold-high-school-diplomas-unless-stude-1796638840

Quote

Mayor Rahm Emanuel has made Chicago Public Schools the first big-city system to require a job, a college acceptance letter, gap-year program enrollment or enlistment in the military as a condition of graduating from high school. 

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

New beer at our local brewery is called Covfefe Hefe.